Sword Art Online - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Rakshasa

He gave 10.000 people an amazing world to live in, one that is anything but the grey, boring world of reality. Exactly what people playing games have always wanted.

An amazing world where the food doesn't taste that good, where the amenities and entertainment we take for granted are absent, where opportunities are limited, and where the daily grind is not only life-threatening, but at the same time mind-numbingly dull. (Do you want to spend two weeks killing the same monster, waiting for a rare drop?)

I won't say anything about Kayaba's state of mind or character, but seriously - I don't want to be trapped in a world as tiny as Aincrad.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

An amazing world where the food doesn't taste that good, where the amenities and entertainment we take for granted are absent, where opportunities are limited, and where the daily grind is not only life-threatening, but at the same time mind-numbingly dull. (Do you want to spend two weeks killing the same monster, waiting for a rare drop?)

I won't say anything about Kayaba's state of mind or character, but seriously - I don't want to be trapped in a world as tiny as Aincrad.

dangerous yes, tiny no.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

dangerous yes, tiny no.

It's big for a video game. It's tiny for a world to live in. Ten thousand people at the start, 8 thousand left. It's a small town.

My favorite past time is reading. Out of those 8 thousand, how many are able to write something I'd consider worth reading? And if the answer's more than zero, won't they be too busy performing the repetitive task of killing monsters to write?

How about all my other hobbies? They don't freaking exist in Aincrad.

And what about those who like to build things? Depending on what they want to do, it may not be possible. The physics of that world are pretty restrictive.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's big for a video game. It's tiny for a world to live in. Ten thousand people at the start, 8 thousand left. It's a small town.

My favorite past time is reading. Out of those 8 thousand, how many are able to write something I'd consider worth reading? And if the answer's more than zero, won't they be too busy performing the repetitive task of killing monsters to write?

How about all my other hobbies? They don't freaking exist in Aincrad.

And what about those who like to build things? Depending on what they want to do, it may not be possible. The physics of that world are pretty restrictive.

It seemed you meant tiny as in physical space not population in you last post.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

It seemed you meant tiny as in physical space not population in you last post.

Regardless, it's still tiny.
We have SPACE!
No seriously, unless it's something like in Baldr sky where almost every url is a virtual world with their own servers, Aincrad is small compared to our own, in every sense of the word. Only, every space there is used for gaming purposes, unlike our world.

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'd call him deranged, yes, but not sadistic. It seems to me that he did it for a reason that's like, FOR SCIENCE! but even simpler. He did it because he could. That's the impression I'm getting. I think he just wanted to make a world and put people in it. Remember, his goal had already been achieved the moment he trapped everyone in it. He has nothing to gain from adding game-breaking features or glitches, and in fact, probably intended the game to be played as fairly as possible (hence, the only ways to kill people in town is through exploits).

............

Why am I picturing Kayaba and Cave Johnson gets along real well while drinking lemonade?

[Anh_Minh]

I mean tiny in things to do with your time.

You can slay monsters and hopefully help get out.

You can play tourist. Great views, but little sense of history.

You can perform a handful of activities that were programmed in, but don't hope for novelty.

You can't study, you can't watch the news about something other than this small world you're stuck in, you can't call up old friends. You can't watch an anime about MMO players stuck in the virtual world, though I guess you have an alternative for that one...

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I mean tiny in things to do with your time.

You can slay monsters and hopefully help get out.

You can play tourist. Great views, but little sense of history.

You can perform a handful of activities that were programmed in, but don't hope for novelty.

You can't study, you can't watch the news about something other than this small world you're stuck in, you can't call up old friends. You can't watch an anime about MMO players stuck in the virtual world, though I guess you have an alternative for that one...

i get what you mean now but there others not pre-progrm like taking up writing. Either start a newspaper like the Anicard Times or chronicle the top Guild/players.

[Anh_Minh]

But as I said, the news will be about Aincrad. It's not nothing, but it isn't much either.

[Shimapan]

Originally Posted by Rakshasa

He gave 10.000 people an amazing world to live in, one that is anything but the grey, boring world of reality. Exactly what people playing games have always wanted.

Suuure, Aincrad is a pony farm! And they all lived happily ever after

You have a seriously twisted view if you really think that anyone actually wanted to really *live* in that world 24/7, constantly fighting for their lives against all sorts of nasty mosters, living in constant fear of PK thugs, which now became much more threatening with the possibility of sleep PK, living in fear now even in the cities, as people can be killed even there now...

On the other hand side, there are no entertainment possibilities whatsoever, i.e. nothing to take their mind off all those fears. No literature, no tv/cinema, no internet, no connection to the outside world... Only mindnumbing boredom. The dull grinding of ever the same monsters just to level up and increase your chance of survival only adds up to the boredom.

I'm pretty sure that by far the primary reason for people to join the front liners isn't bravery or even wanting to escape that world as quickly as possible, it's rather an attempt to escape the mindnumbing boredom just for a bit.
Most of the PK thugs probably do PKing for the same reason: just out of boredom, not because they're malicious by nature.

tl;dr: Aincrad certainly isn't the pony farm you make it out to be. The time people don't spend in fear (of being killed by monsters, of being killed by PKs including sleep PK...), they spend with mind numbing boredom due to the complete lack of any entertainment.
To quote a certain someone:

"Having such a black and white view of people is a sign of immaturity and indoctrination."

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'd call him deranged, yes, but not sadistic. It seems to me that he did it for a reason that's like, FOR SCIENCE!

He does it as much "for science" as the nazi physicians like Mengele have done their experiments on the concentration camp inmates "for science". Both don't care for science at all, all they ever wanted is seeing people suffering for their own entertainment, and they don't care at all if a few thousand people die in the process.

[styr]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

dangerous yes, tiny no.

The first floor is pretty small though, compared to most modern MMO worlds, if you only count the 1st floor of SAO. When they opened up the 2nd floor it nearly doubled the space available and that really helped the players. Not just with morale, but also with the number of deaths declining..

Remember that newspaper thingy that Keita had in ep3 when he mentions the latest floor being cleared? Someone had to make that up and print them.. similar to the guidebook Egil took out during ep2 in regards to boss info and information compiled from the beta testers.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's big for a video game. It's tiny for a world to live in. Ten thousand people at the start, 8 thousand left. It's a small town.

My favorite past time is reading. Out of those 8 thousand, how many are able to write something I'd consider worth reading? And if the answer's more than zero, won't they be too busy performing the repetitive task of killing monsters to write?

How about all my other hobbies? They don't freaking exist in Aincrad.

And what about those who like to build things? Depending on what they want to do, it may not be possible. The physics of that world are pretty restrictive.

Spoiler for Various minor spoilers from Vol 1, 2, 8.:

Well... "hobbies" in SAO consisted of... playing the MMO, opening a shop, playing the auction house, fishing, cooking... and I'm sure there are a few others we aren't aware of in the anime, like gambling - Kirito mentions a monster arena where players can gamble, but since it is only thought of once in passing we never learn more about it.. . Building as in, similar to minecraft? Probably not possible, although Kirito also mentions that player houses can be remodeled, at least inside..

About reading books.. Argo was capable of mass producing guidebooks compiled from beta tester information and distributed them at item shops.. so there must be some way to print them. Not every player grinds monsters all day every day, I imagine most people only fight enough to survive day-to-day and perhaps slowly build up funds to buy a house or something.

Some players like Egil and a certain blacksmith make ends meet by being a merchant type character, so other types of players do exist. Argo is an information broker, some players own food shops, etc. If a manga artist or author got trapped in SAO, I imagine he or she would try to continue their "trade" in SAO if it was possible..

I do agree with you about it being large for a video game, but only if you count multiple floors. Most modern MMO worlds/playable areas are bigger than SAO's first floor. For example, WOW's two main continents are each around 10 miles (1mile=1.60934km) if you measure them in the longest direction, but are much shorter width wise due to their shape. Sorry for my linking to other websites, but the picture shows what exactly was measured in terms of distance, though they couldn't measure the tip of the continent due to it not being connected to the main continent's server.

Of course WOW and most MMOs are not a circular design like SAO is, so that 10 mile distance doesn't account for the rather thin design of the continent. Of course, WOW is also built around servers that hold, at most, around 8k concurrent players split into two factions and spread across two+ continents. Servers with 8k players though are very, very crowded and especially so when any new areas open up for exploration. Fighting for spawn pops is a normal occurrence in MMO games and Kirito even mentions this in ep1 when he was talking to Klein about not wanting to upset other players by 'kill-stealing' monsters that spawn around other players. In a normal game that wouldn't be a problem.. but in a game with no faction or alignment and open PKing, you would have to be cautious not to upset other players recklessly.. or you might die.

Nearly 10k players trapped on that first floor would be.. quite dangerous in a game like SAO with open PK outside towns. I've played during a few MMO launches and that "starting area" is always packed with players like sardines in a can. Kirito had the right idea leaving the Starting City ASAP, as such he could keep ahead of the deluge of players.

[hero147]

You would think with only 10 thousand copies that the majority of the players who logged in are avid gamers. You know, with the waiting in line for several hours in the middle of the night to obtain a copy. I think most of them wouldn't have many alternative hobbies that they liked to do in their free time in real life.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by styr

Nearly 10k players trapped on that first floor would be.. quite dangerous in a game like SAO with open PK outside towns. I've played during a few MMO launches and that "starting area" is always packed with players like sardines in a can. Kirito had the right idea leaving the Starting City ASAP, as such he could keep ahead of the deluge of players.

It's the right idea in normal circumstances, but in a death game I can't imagine that even half of them were willing to leave town in the beginning. Somehow I doubt that Kirito's prediction came true, because he was thinking too much like a gamer.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Clarste

It's the right idea in normal circumstances, but in a death game I can't imagine that even half of them were willing to leave town in the beginning. Somehow I doubt that Kirito's prediction came true, because he was thinking too much like a gamer.

But remember that everyone would be super cautious when fighting, so leveling would be slow for everyone, leaving everyone fighting for the same newbie monsters.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Znail

But remember that everyone would be super cautious when fighting, so leveling would be slow for everyone, leaving everyone fighting for the same newbie monsters.

Super cautious means "don't leave town" rather than "go fight weak monsters". Remember that there's something of a learning curve: Klein nearly lost to the boar because he didn't know how to execute proper attacks.

[SagaraSouske]

But you can be super cautious by forming groups to hunt these boars.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

But you can be super cautious by forming groups to hunt these boars.

That is less cautious. You have to imagine that they were in a state of panic, and most of them likely hoping to get rescued. So they have no motivation whatsoever to risk their lives at all.

[AzureWrath]

I'm definitely being a bit lazy, but I don't want to read through 17 pages to check this.

In episode 5 random guy gets pew pew'd to death. Hero + heroine find out that that guy's name was Kains. We know from episode 1 that people who die are recorded in a record on the first floor. This record also includes a short description of how they died.

Wouldn't it be an intelligent thing to go check on that? Is that something they do later (it would be one of the first things I would think of)?

[SagaraSouske]

That'd be paralyzed by fear, not cautious. Even in real life people take a lot of risks.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by AzureWrath

I'm definitely being a bit lazy, but I don't want to read through 17 pages to check this.

In episode 5 random guy gets pew pew'd to death. Hero + heroine find out that that guy's name was Kains. We know from episode 1 that people who die are recorded in a record on the first floor. This record also includes a short description of how they died.

Wouldn't it be an intelligent thing to go check on that? Is that something they do later (it would be one of the first things I would think of)?

Spoiler for Comparison to the novel for this episode's content:

It's something they did in the novels but the anime skipped it because in the anime they changed the wall to only show names and not the cause of death. So it wouldn't have been very helpful anyway.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Shimapan

He does it as much "for science" as the nazi physicians like Mengele have done their experiments on the concentration camp inmates "for science". Both don't care for science at all, all they ever wanted is seeing people suffering for their own entertainment, and they don't care at all if a few thousand people die in the process.

First of all, I said it was LIKE "for science" but SIMPLER. He did it because he could. He SAID his goal had already been achieved. There is nothing to imply that he included hidden items or skills that work in towns. Or that the game is an 'unfair challenge'. Apart from making death a 'real' thing, the ones to blame for the murders are the players doing it.