2012-02-05, 06:56 | Link #27701 | |
Ordinary Magician
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Gensokyo
Age: 31
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Well she could have told that to him ON the day of the conference. But like I said, there's no proof that she told him anything BEFORE the conference. And the phonecall happened BEFORE the conference. Come on, it's obvious Battler made up that alternative truth just so that he would not reveal the real truth behind Yasu to the witches. If he had then the game would have ended right there and we would have been given our answer. EDIT Oh and the man from 19 years ago probably sounded like a man. After all the first thing Natsuhi asked Genji when he told her that someone had arrived on the island by accident (Erika), was if that person was a man. Also don't you think Natsuhi would have recognized Battler's voice on the phone? At least during the phone calls on the day of the conference.
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Last edited by Remon; 2012-02-05 at 07:22. |
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2012-02-05, 08:53 | Link #27702 |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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About the man from 19 years ago...Natsuhi probably knew the gender of the child right? So isn't it obvious that the child (Yasu) should be a male too. If not the conversation would feel weird. If the child is a girl, Natsuhi would have reason to doubt whether that guy is the girl he claimed to be or not, right? Sorry if I'm not very clear here.
And Natsuhi probably is not in the right state of mind either. |
2012-02-05, 09:40 | Link #27703 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
Age: 27
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2012-02-05, 09:45 | Link #27704 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Spoiler for Replies to Toku cut due to lenght...:
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It was probably altered so as to make harder to pin it down. In books often they merely place a tissue on the phone, no complicate devices involved. Natsuhi heard the speaker talking in a way that's more common for males than for females and jumped to the conclusion the speaker was a male even though she couldn't be sure. Quote:
The baby was around for 3 days but Natsuhi didn't really want to be around the baby so it's possible she never did something like... let's say, changing diapers. Lion can either be a male or a female name and, if I'm not wrong, Japanese can be gender neuter enough she might not have figured out the sex of the baby by Kinzo's speech. She might have assumed though the baby was male because Kinzo was asking her, the wife of his first son, to adopt one. This would make the baby Kinzo's heir and she might have thought since Kinzo is a male supremacist he would want a boy to be his heir. Also, if Natsuhi knew the baby was a boy there was no point in changing Shannon's birth date. The mere fact she was a girl would have tricked her into thinking she wasn't the baby. |
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2012-02-05, 10:08 | Link #27705 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Also, Kanon is the one personality of the main 3 that isn't really all that developed, which leads us to believe that she really doesn't have that much experience playing the role of a guy. And, 2/3 main personalities went after guys, not girls. Not to mention, we don't really have any reason to believe that KanonxJessica happens in Prime. Quite the contrary, since actually, it really doesn't happen in any game other than EP6. But, again, because Yasuda possesses "a body that is incapable of love" then it's easy to assume that she's essentially genderless, even though she plays the role of a girl most of the time. |
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2012-02-05, 13:56 | Link #27706 | |||||
The True Culprit
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2012-02-05, 13:59 | Link #27707 | ||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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I just remembered a mystery I never found an answer to. Is there anyone here who has an explanation for why Rudolf is always sure he's gonna die on the night of Oct. 4?
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Of course, it's also possible that it's exactly as you say. I don't have any evidence against it, other than the fact that it makes an unnecessary assumption or two. Quote:
It's kind of a sad story. Quote:
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2012-02-05, 14:42 | Link #27708 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
Age: 27
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There i like this theory, cant see it in any other way. Even in the end Battler Feel's guilty doing this to his aunt , that's why he has the red Natsuhi is not the culprit , When he reveals the truth Island Explodes and Everyone dies |
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2012-02-05, 15:04 | Link #27709 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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However, I don't like that theory, because Yasuda has no motivation to tell everyone her story and, in fact, we have no reason to believe she did, outside of TMF19YA, who may in fact be Yasuda herself. Even if Battler's seiyuu voices TMF19YA and the files are in the same folder, that does not imply Ryukishi went over and told them that Battler is TMF19YA. Especially because of this: Quote:
Also, I don't like the theory that Natsuhi knew the child's gender, because we have no reason to believe that she did. Keep in mind that they live in a rich family, where there are plenty of servants to order around. We were never shown a scene where Natsuhi was caring for it herself. Instead, it was always a servant. And we know that she has absolutely no reason to want to care for it herself. She didn't even have the baby for very long, wasn't it only a few days or so before she pushed the servant carrying it off the cliff? Therefore, why would we assume that she changed its diaper herself even a single time? She also has no reason to want to discuss anything related to the child with anyone, since she abhors the idea that it has been forced on her, and bringing it up will probably only put her in a bad mood. It's well known that the servants take the brunt of it when Natsuhi gets in a bad mood, so I think they would want to keep it as far away from her as possible. |
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2012-02-05, 15:06 | Link #27710 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Rudolf has no idea that he's really going to die. Rudolf's just been instructed to fool Battler so that he'll take the fake murders seriously. If he really knew about the bomb and that a full-blown tragedy would happen...why's he on Rokkenjima? There's any number of excuses he could make to not show up.
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2012-02-05, 15:11 | Link #27711 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
Age: 27
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2012-02-05, 15:14 | Link #27712 | |
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Location: Rokkenjima
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2012-02-05, 15:32 | Link #27713 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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However, despite all of this, there is no reason for her to start telling anyone that she was dropped off a cliff 19 years ago. She's actually ashamed of this and the injury it caused her, and as far as we know, she's never told anyone about it. For example, she never even told George, so he still thinks he can be a happy grandfather surrounded with children in the future. Furthermore, if she did tell them the story, there's a chance that they'll figure out that she's actually Kinzo's illegitimate kid. |
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2012-02-05, 15:56 | Link #27714 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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A.) He planned to tell Kyrie the whole "baby thing", and was exaggerating (hopefully) her reaction B.) Yasu strung him into thinking he'd be in a fake murder game, and he was just playing his part being all cryptic to Battler Piece!Battler is shown to be displeased several times with Natsuhi's treatment. He defends her in Kinzo's Study, tried to come between Eva's assault, and it's heavily implied at the end of EP5 he came to her defense against Erika's reasoning. This is fitting with his character, who's pretty sympathetic to everybody, abhors seeing the adults nasty side, and definitely, definitely knows that Natsuhi is being falsely accused, and severely emotionally harassed for it. |
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2012-02-05, 16:07 | Link #27715 | |
Ordinary Magician
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Gensokyo
Age: 31
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2012-02-05, 16:12 | Link #27716 | ||
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But I think that his displeasure was about her being framed as the culprit of the incident that day. The matter of the kid from 19 years ago is something else entirely. This is one of the reasons why I somewhat wonder if he learned about Yasuda's story or not. If he didn't learn about it, he'd have no reason to join in on the plan to frame Natsuhi in the first place, since he doesn't care about money troubles or whether Kinzo's dead or whatever. But if he did learn about it, well, why did Yasuda tell him? She already seems like she's too afraid to hear what Battler's or George's reaction might be to the fact that she can't have children. My first thought was that, since she gave up on love and decided to simply take revenge on Natsuhi (in EP5 alone, but then again, even in EP5 this is not necessarily true), she decided to tell him just to get him to help her with her plot. That conflicts with what I said in a previous post, of course. That's because I have no idea what theory to use for this at the moment. |
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2012-02-05, 16:39 | Link #27717 | |||||||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Ryukishi said: Quote:
Yasuda might have considered actually committing the murders but I think the games give plenty of hints about her not doing it in the end... sort of like Kirye who said she was ready to kill Asumu but, ops, Asumu went and died by herself so she didn't become a killer. Though in Yasuda's case is also possible she merely didn't kill anyone because she came back to her senses, not because people died by themselves. However we know she sent an envelope with the key to a bank account to Rudolf. In Our Confession is hinted she planned to do this for her accomplices so she definitely bribed him for something. So I think while creating the setting for her game she inadvertitely created a setting in which the siblings, who were in need of money and were squabbling among them, could have done something foolish that lead to people dying. Due to Rudolf having been bribed he probably did something, which might or might have not been totally innocent but that caused Eva to consider him or Kirye a culprit of some sort so in her book of the single truth she wrote what happened in such a way it would lead to this interpretation. The interesting part of EP 7 though is that George told Shannon that Battler, as a kid, was really taken by her, he wasn't just making fun of her. If this happened in Prime too Yasuda might have felt a bit of relief from her fears. Battler was serious but, due to all that happened, he couldn't keep his promise and either forgot it or pretended to have it forgotten. It's a way better perspective than: he made fun of me right from day 1 and might have helped her to cool down a little. Quote:
In the same way Yasuda could have stopped the mystery game but likely in her mind didn't want to, she wanted Battler to solve it. However I don't know if in the end she waited for Battler to resque her or something persuaded her to change her plans. Quote:
Natsuhi is the one who would be willing to kill to 'protect' her family and the only time she tried to do so is against Beato in Ep 1... if that scene is telling us the truth... though it can be fantasy as well. Compared to Kirye, who's willing to kill a love rival, to Eva who's willing to kill for revenge or to Rosa who can trust only in herself and is willing to protect only herself and, at best, Maria, she's the one who looks as the less bloodthirsty. Though yes, in desperate moments people can do desperate things. Quote:
Yasuda can't really assure her that afterlife will be like she described and she probably knows. ... personally I really don't like how she involved Maria in this so I prefer to think she believed there was no way out of her sad destiny of not being loved by her mother for Maria and that Yasuda persuaded her that in the golden land she would be happy because she pitied her. I'm not sure. I know Witch Hunt considered the possibility but first they wanted a break from Umineko. |
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2012-02-05, 16:49 | Link #27718 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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In EP5, Yasuda told Battler ALMOST EVERYTHING about herself and about Natsuhi. While Yasuda wanted to forgive Natsuhi, Battler couldn't accept what Natsuhi did.
So using Yasuda's knowledge, he pretended to be the "child from 19 years ago", but not with the intent to mentally torture her, but instead to make her confess her crime from the past. It is impossible for Battler to have predicted Erika's appearance, so the murder mystery game was something that happened spontanously. And Battler used it to lead Erika into framing Natsuhi. HOWEVER he didn't want anyone to find out about kinzo, because that would be very harmful to Krauss and Jessica, who are not even involved and regarding Natsuhi he may have viewed it as something seperate (like Battler's "I only fight the existence of magic on october 4th/5th, but magic can still exist outside these 2 days") And then, when Natsuhi confessed everything at the end, Battler was satisfied and told everyone the truth. (and possibly playing Erika for a fool, if we say "trial=metaphicalReality") |
2012-02-05, 16:55 | Link #27719 | ||||
Dribble.....SHOOTOH!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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There's clearly something very different about 5, even without Erica, and that seems to be the best explanation. I took "without love" to mean that love isn't effecting what happens on the gameboard in the manner it has been in the other games, which matches up pretty clearly with what we see. I just wish we could know more about what went on behind the scenes. Quote:
Like the closed room reveal from episode 2- I thought it was pretty neat, and it made sense once he revealed it, but no one had even guessed at it, and I don't think there was anywhere near enough evidence for people to decide that was definitely what happened. I'm actually pretty okay not having closed room reveals and trying to work them out myself, but when it comes to stuff where we have to figure out what a character was thinking, I'm really frustrated that we don't have clearer answers. |
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2012-02-05, 17:02 | Link #27720 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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The phone calls are rather cruel and later will be used to trick Natsuhi into being framed as culprit.
Being cruel doesn't really look like Battler's style. He might have joined the plan of the siblings because they told him Natsuhi was hiding Kinzo's death. When they entered in Kinzo's room it was commented how he found Natsuhi's lies about Kinzo's despicable though I don't think he thought they would torture Natsuhi like that. When he agreed he probably thought that Natsuhi would confess sooner and when this didn't happen he tried to smooth things over defending Natsuhi against Erika and no one went against him because they were afraid he would confess the truth. In fact all the siblings knew how he escaped from the closed room but no one told Erika. I guess he was also disturbed by how Natsuhi insisted in her lie even when she believed her daughter was dead and her husband might have been killed as well. I think in EP 5 Battler is seriously disgusted by all the adults and that's why piece!Battler doesn't take a clear stance. |
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