2013-07-04, 23:10 | Link #5341 | ||
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2013-07-04, 23:19 | Link #5342 | ||||
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Also, the magicians that are born with mental interference magic, are only capable of doing one thing to the brain. alter mental functions, hypnose, freeze the mind, create illusions. All they know to do is interfere with a specific and small part of the brain. If you read "Untouchable" from vol 8 you will understand how mental interference magic works Quote:
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External systemic magic - is categorized this way cause it's not a type o magic you can learn through studies. You need to be born with the capability of using this type o magic. That's why it's called external. Quote:
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2013-07-05, 00:06 | Link #5343 | |||||||||
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2013-07-05, 03:08 | Link #5345 |
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After catching up on the last, what, 10 pages, I've got the following comments.
- External Systematic Magic is called External Systematic Magic because the magic doesn't fit in a specific system. They flat out tell you this in Volume 1, chapter 5, when Tatsuya asks about Azusayumi. - Systematic Magic (i.e. not Non-Systematic, External Systematic, or Extrasensory Systematic) is called Systematic Magic because it affects Eidos, either directly or (in the case of Cardinal Code magic) indirectly. Again, this is another volume 1 explanation. (Systemic was also an Engrish mistranslation, as it doesn't mean the same thing as Systematic.) - Calling magic "innate" is simply saying that the person has natural talent in bringing the magic out. It does not mean that the magic cannot be used by other Magicians, but that the technology level of the story does not necessarily give them the capability to duplicate it. Otherwise, by that logic, Tatsuya could not have discovered how to put together Flying-Type Magic. - Regular Systematic Magic categorizes magic by what it does, not by effects (like creating electricity). So by putting magic that can create electricity separate from magic that fiddles with people's minds, the author is telling you that the magic that causes the electricity (Dispersal Magic) doesn't work the same way as magic that fiddles with people's minds. If it was only one specific type of magic that causes one specific effect, you couldn't have multiple parts of Systematic Magic (Movement/Vibration and Speed) that have effects that deal with cold and heat, so this doesn't disprove how Mental Magic gets things done. - "Spirit" has multiple definitions in English. In the context of the series, if you're talking about mental magic, say "Mind." If you're talking about Mikihiko's Pushion congregation, say "Spirit." They've specifically defined "Spirit Magic" as Mikihiko's Pushion congregations in Volume 3, Chapter 1, and classified it as External Systematic Magic as well, so using "Spirit" in any other context (like Mental Magic) is a flat out mistranslation or demonstrates misunderstanding on the person using it in that context. Cocytus has absolutely nothing to do with Mikihiko's Spirit magic. - Outer and External are used interchangeably because one of the characters for "External" means "Outside." It would be like saying "I want to eat break, fast" instead of "I want to eat breakfast." - Individual Ancient Magic spells can be categorized in the Modern Magic Systematic categories. They just don't use the same rules as Modern Magic because they're not using CADs, and you would need someone on the level of Tatsuya to convert their magic into a CAD-usable format. |
2013-07-05, 05:36 | Link #5346 | |||||
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2013-07-05, 06:32 | Link #5347 |
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Tatsuya's BS Decomposition magic as a whole has both Systematic and Non-Systematic applications. Mist Dispersal obliterates objects by essentially decomposing their Eidos and is a part of Tatsuya's Decomposition magic -- this would not be possible if Tatsuya's Decomposition magic didn't not cover Systematic Magic. (So was his using Decomposition magic to break down his sweat when waiting for Mayumi.)
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2013-07-05, 07:34 | Link #5348 | ||
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Second, the nature of Cocytus' "math" problem is a lot simpler than something like memory manipulation. If we were to treat this as a programming problem: If the given area of the brain handles sensory input, turn "off" Add an infinite loop to ALL signals being output from the brain, to repeat the signal they were sending at the time of the spell casting. She doesn't have to care about what any individual signal does, she can just issue a blanket order. Since the signals are not allowed to change, this would be effectively freezing them, including their positions. All the signals devoted to say, raising an arm, would be infinitely repeating, thus keeping the arm in place. I've already provided pseudo-science explanations for the stuck bodies, the lack of dying. You've either missed them or chosen to ignore them, so I'm not going to bother retyping them. At any rate, I've already said I'll compromise as far as "Information Body." (Which you have also missed or ignored, twice now.) If you're going to keep harping on souls and minds that exist outside the body, I'm going to point out you can't explain those at ALL. Logic need not apply, only storytelling. To quote your earlier comment: Quote:
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2013-07-05, 07:40 | Link #5349 | |
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2013-07-05, 08:17 | Link #5350 | ||
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2013-07-05, 08:39 | Link #5351 | ||
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2013-07-05, 09:15 | Link #5352 |
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Honestly, I don't think the author thought through his magic system completely.
For instance, he devotes significant time and effort to emphasize the problem with interference and overwriting, but then mysteriously, "Loop Cast" seems to completely bypass those problems. |
2013-07-05, 09:48 | Link #5353 |
Nyaaan~~
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^ I disagree. It's very well thought out actually. The simple way I think of it is that magic is like a "new system of physics" that are based on fundamental laws regarding the systematic systems. Anything that is wildly outside of it is considered non-systematic.
Interference Strength, Overwriting and the Phenomenon Rewriting Ability (among other things) I find most easily by thinking of them as radiowaves. Remember -- do not think of magic "creating a fireball" -- instead you think of the magic influencing molecule vibration, build-up of oxygen atoms and then applying motion to it, all via their magical influence.
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2013-07-05, 10:11 | Link #5354 | |
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and this is pretty smart move ... it creates most of theory as well as creates set of rules, as long as you move withing them you won't contradict yourself ... novel have a GREAT deal of reference to physics as well as metaphysical tradition and other belief systems in that sense |
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2013-07-05, 10:20 | Link #5355 | |
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But to the more immediate example, my problem lies with Tatsuya's Loop Cast. As a system that allows the rapid casting of the exact same spell, each successive cast should encounter increasing interference from the spells already in place. Tatsuya at least, can supposedly bypass this with his ability to manipulate variables and target locations on the fly, but he's unusually exceptional in that area. Everyone else should be stuck at the level of "exact same spell" each time. So when he has his flying device, the target, the magician, is the one thing that absolutely cannot change, so even if the other variables change, Loop Cast shouldn't be able to avoid running into increasingly greater interference. Same goes for their Proposed Thermonuclear device. As far as the books have discussed so far, the only way to get rid of the remnant psions is to wait for them to dissipate or blast them away using something like Mayumi's spells or Tatsuya's Gram Dispersal. And again, these two people are unusual in their abilities to do so. Everyone else should be stuck. |
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2013-07-05, 10:24 | Link #5356 | |
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According to your quote, 'Decomposition' is a mix of 4 systematic magics. Tatsuya was born without the capacity of wield any magic. If he could use 4 magics to create one then there would be no meaning in put in him a artificial magic calculation area. Your statement contradicts with Tatsuya's inability to use normal magic.
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2013-07-05, 10:31 | Link #5357 | |||
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As for Tatsuya, it's not that he had the inability to use magic, it's just that he could only use Decomposition and Regrowth, which appear to be so complicated his magic calculation area could not handle anything else. (For example, we can move our arms and legs, but can you intellectually break down each individual muscle contraction?) The artificial area that was created gives him a little extra space to do regular calculations, but it's so gimped that he can only handle a couple processes, and it's slower than average. I found this in volume 2: Quote:
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2013-07-05, 10:41 | Link #5358 |
Nyaaan~~
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Rasen - I think you're misunderstanding something about Loop Cast and rampaging magic sequences:
From V3C4 - the truck flying towards the bus: Spoiler for Explanation #1:
From V3C1 - on explaining why original theories on magic flight don't work Spoiler for Explaination #2:
From V3C2 - explaining how the loop cast enables flight: Spoiler for Explanation #3:
What the Loop Cast system appears to do is to create numerous activation sequences one after another that sits in the Magic Calculation Area of a Magician's mind .. which are then translated one by one in rapid succession into magic sequences that each have a "definitive end" So "up 3 cm, forward 2, begin acceleration 2m/s, STOP" then instantaneously "up 4cm, forward 2, slow accceleration to 1m/s, STOP", etc.
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2013-07-05, 10:51 | Link #5359 | |
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I've read those explanations, but they're still unsatisfactory. For instance, if it was merely a problem of setting the ending condition sooner, then they should have achieved flying LONG before the novels started. Look at how fast magicians can create and process new spells especially with CADs: they're on the order of milliseconds with GENERAL CADs. They wouldn't even have time to fall. Look at the English experiment. They're so fast that they even had time to insert another spell (the one that erases the effects of the first one) inbetween the two flying spells. Something as simple as setting a clear stop condition shouldn't even require Loop Cast, if spells that have hit STOP immediately dissipate. The logical explanation then is that both "finished" and "unfinished" spells leave a mess of psions or what have you on the information body that needs time to dissipate. Otherwise, this isn't even close to what should be called "Great Mystery of Systemic Magic." Maybe this would have been a problem before the invention of CADs, but after it would have just been a parlor trick. In fact, I distinctly recall that the first time I read the words "magic with an unfinished condition," the idea "set an ending condition" came to mind as a solution. And I bet you had the same experience too. Also, I question if the multiple activations/copies park in the Magician's mind. That implies then, that the magician's mind can handle that many processes. As I recall, Loop Cast and Trident were invented by Tatsuya for the very specific reason that his artificial calculation area could not hold that much, so to speak. Last edited by Rasen; 2013-07-05 at 11:38. |
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2013-07-05, 12:26 | Link #5360 | ||||||
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If you're talking about another universe, then I take mine from the Type-Moon universe. Quote:
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action, fantasy, harem, incest, mahouka, rettousei, school life, shounen, siblings |
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