2009-06-18, 07:22 | Link #1521 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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In other words Maria receiving a letter that very moment could be a big lie, or she had received a fake. Then soon after the first twilight the culprit gave Maria the true envelope with the true key. After that no one touched it until Rosa in the morning.
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2009-06-18, 08:07 | Link #1522 | |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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Back on the topic of episode 4... does anyone have an inkling of just what the hell Ange saw in the captain's house?
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2009-06-18, 08:19 | Link #1524 | ||
Dame Cheesie
Graphic Designer
Join Date: May 2004
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To summarize once more, Meta-Battler is unable to claim he was born from Asumu, but has established his name as Kinzo's grandson. He is also able to successfully claim that he is Ange's brother. Perhaps he is truly Rudolf's son, there shouldn't be any reason to doubt it (but I'm also being cautious about it too). However, I'm not really sure if Kyrie had given birth to him, unless she made the whole thing up (which I wouldn't put past Umineko, but as for now, it doesn't seem likely.) I believe that to go even further beyond this is to link it to the crime Beato speaks of, which there's admittedly not much to go on with at the moment. Hmm... Another theory is... (This is where I'll take you up on that offer. ) Ange : Come back quickly, Onii-chan!! Don't leave me all alone!!! It's me, Ange...!! No one came back, not Mom, not Dad, not you, Onii-chan!! I'm lonely!! I beg you, come back quickly! That's right, I'm Ange!! The Ange of the world where no one comes back...!! My entire family didn't come back from Rokkenjima on that day...!! The witch before your eyes stole my whole family, even you, Onii-chan...! Only you can finish her, Onii-chan!! Finish her, Onii-chan...!! And take our family back!! Then, ......come back to me......!!! Now, I need someone fluent in Japanese to confirm this, but perhaps the reason why it's possible for Battler to claim that he is indeed her brother because 'brother' also means 'Onii-Chan' and that 'Onii-Chan' doesn't necessarily have to refer to a person who is blood-related. (Oh boy...) This is quite different from being made to say 'I was born from Ushiromiya Asumu' as it's a direct confirmation that he is of the same blood. It is also indeed a mind-screwing theory, not like we needed to add it onto the many piles already, but there's always that possibility and if it did happen, then you heard it here first. And yes, it's possible for his appearance to be changed during that growth spurt, so it shouldn't be anything out of the ordinary. However, the only people who could fully acknowledge Battler's appearance would be his parents, Rudolf and Kyrie. I'm assuming that the time before the crime happened six years ago, and after, there was nothing out of the ordinary with Rudolf's family, seeing how I'm sure there will be quite a fuss if there's suddenly a different looking Battler popping up on their doorstep. Unless Rudolf, or Kyrie, has something to hide. I believe that Rudolf knows more than he lets on, given by his dialogue, when he tells Battler he's going to die tonight, suggests that he at least has a decent understanding of the twilights. In fact, he may be the only one out of the family, apart from Maria, who knows of this (and to an extent, maybe Kyrie, but I can't remember much about her in Episode 1, and if I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct this.) This, as well as how the game had never once mentioned how Asumu died, and had given a rough estimate of her time of death, around the same year where Rudolf proposes to Kyrie? It's certainly incensed meta-Battler enough to forsake the family name. This also takes place in the same year that this crime had occurred, and someone had died due to this crime. (I have reasons for believing that the twilights play a huge role in this, but that's another issue.) Could Asumu have died as a result of Battler's crime? The thing is, and I agree with you on this, is that the main problem lies in Battler's memories. He was assuming that this crime relates to his abandonment of the family name, and yet, we also know that there was something that he had forgotten, and this is why Beato had grieved. So I really wouldn't put much weight on what he says regarding those six years for now, not because he may be lying, but because what he wholeheartedly and confidently believes in during those six years may in fact be limited, and there's something more in the bigger picture that he's not able to see, yet. To reiterate, I believe that Kyrie, Rudolf, and last but not least, Asumu, are heavily involved with this more than what the game lets on, but that's all I have at the moment. (On that note, if I'm not wrong, there is also a small bit where Beato theorized that it had something to do with the family inheritance, but I can't remember the exact quote.) Edit: Quote:
Last edited by cheesie; 2009-06-18 at 10:27. |
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2009-06-18, 09:00 | Link #1525 | |||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Also in the the case "Beatrice" gave Maria two letters a fake one initially and the real one later, this sentence doesn't give any clear info about which letter she's talking about. Quote:
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2009-06-18, 09:16 | Link #1526 | |
(☞゚∀゚)☞ロンパアアアア!!
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cheesie, get to the point than doing tl;drs! I know what you mean, but are you trying to burn my eyes with tl;drs everytime? :E
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2009-06-18, 10:11 | Link #1528 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
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2009-06-18, 10:40 | Link #1529 | |
(☞゚∀゚)☞ロンパアアアア!!
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Argh, I read that part wrongly again. But yes, they could, as "imouto", if stretched out in a way, can exactly fit into "younger sister figure" for a person, just like my explanation on "onii-chan"/"onee-chan". But again, that would require a bit of rather... implausible thinking. As well as it's pretty hard to find the examples for "imouto" outside family relationships, unlike "otouto". (Key point is on "Figure" thinking from a person... But I guess that would REALLY take a stretch, so yah.) I still can be wrong though and I sure hope I am, especially seeing this "Figure" theory may need more Japanese word as addition. D: Even "son" itself can be twisted imho... Because I was under impression that "son" can also mean he is not blood-related, but a "son figure" for Asumu. The problem is here, as cheesie said, Battler cannot say: 'I was born from Ushiromiya Asumu' rather than 'I am Ushiromiya Asumu's son', while Ange only said that Battler is her "Onii-chan" and Battler uses "imouto". Note the difference here, because Battler uses "born" that correalates that he is blood-related to Asumu, but Ange/Battler uses "Onii-chan/"imouto"" that can correalate with brother/sister figure. Et tu, while I think it's possible to say that he is not Rudolf's son, personally, I can't take anymore mind-screwing from Ryukishi The theory is still plausible in a way though. ... Although I really don't want this to be possible, because this too, can nullify Meta-Battler's Ushiromiya's heritage in a point Though that would need a wider stretch, to be very honest, as I can't possibly say his "Kinzo's grandson" statement can be screwed easily, as much as it also is possible.
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Last edited by Natsuki Hyuga; 2009-06-18 at 11:21. |
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2009-06-18, 11:05 | Link #1530 |
エーレンフェストの聖女
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dollars
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^
IMO, considering that Beato won't delve deeper about his identity, I think we can safely assumed that Battler = Kinzo's grandson. Well, if she can, she would try to say it in red about Battler's fake identity more right ? ^^;
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2009-06-18, 11:05 | Link #1531 | |
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
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hey, don't diss the incest, (imagines how many fans will be disappointed if Amakuza was actually Battler in disguise)
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2009-06-18, 11:31 | Link #1532 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Which Battler? Maybe he's Asumu's son! And Rosa is Eva's daughter, and then Nanjo is Maria's father, and Kasumi is the wife of Kumasawa's son, which mean Kumasawa's son is the husband of the sister of the mother of Kinzo's grandson's sister, who happens to be cousin of the aunt of Nanjo's granddaughter!
Now let's just hope this is not going to happen...
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2009-06-18, 12:28 | Link #1535 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I think I prefer my loophole, that the red text simply doesn't prevent Rosa opening the letter any time after midnight, since that's still "Rosa unsealed the letter the next day". I'm just not sure what motivation there would have been this way to give Maria the letter in the first place or how Rosa should have worked out that the key was in it. Actually.. for that matter, if Maria got the letter after the first twilight, wouldn't Rosa have been opening it the same day rather than the next day? |
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2009-06-18, 13:06 | Link #1537 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 38
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Beatrice could have simply switched the fake letter given to Maria without waking her up with the real thing.
The red text does prevent Rosa from opening the envelope before the morning of October 5th. It was stated that Rosa opened it "this morning" and that from the time Maria recieved it until it was opened it did not pass through anyone's hands. That includes Rosa. Of course you could argue the definition of "morning", but that would basically mean Rosa opened the envelope, saw the real thing, then resealed it again and acted all surprised and shocked for no reason afterwards. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember any red text that explicitly stated the letter was opened "the next day". |
2009-06-18, 13:11 | Link #1538 |
Counter Force
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Well we regard Rosa as a culprit, then the key might not even in the envelope since the beginning. She could just hide it and pretend to pick it from the envelop.
I don't think there's a red text that states that the key was in the letter, isn't it?
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2009-06-18, 13:38 | Link #1539 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 38
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Yes, there is :P
"This morning, Rosa definitely took out an envelope from Maria's handbag and thereby obtained the genuine key to the chapel." and "That which was inside the envelope I entrusted Maria with, was definitely the key to the chapel." |
2009-06-18, 14:35 | Link #1540 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
As for waking up the children it's not like your theory is different you still need to imagine someone going inside the cousin's room when they are sleeping.
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