(L) Negima Manga Discussion

[Narona]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

I would agree with this theory if Al didn't said the first time Ala Rubra met Asuna, "just like me, the little girl age can't be judged simply by appearance". That was before she was sealed so seems like she already didn't age as she's supposed too.

Yes. That's why I think Asuna might be actually way older that Arika was in the past.

So, that's she's not Arika's sister.

We don't know for how long they kept her sealed (appearance wise)

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

Ok... on the last page posted on that link... on that small panel into the left-bottom corner...

Spoiler for 270 spoilers:

do I see a head coming from the floor.... one that looks like Eva-chan head...

Spoiler for 270:

The raws have confirmed that the person popping out of the floor is Sayo.

[kwendy]

We don't know for how long they kept her sealed (appearance wise)

We know the time, when she was sealed and that she was trevelling with Nagi for some time span. Oh, and we know her apperance: her growth at Mahora was not different from other girls.
Well, don't really remember the first time they met, but Nagi reffered to her as to a little girl before they did.
P.S. Even High Daylight Walker... To think that Ekatherine could be executed simillar way if it wasn't Nagi who captured her...

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by kwendy

P.S. Even High Daylight Walker... To think that Ekatherine could be executed simillar way if it wasn't Nagi who captured her...

They said that even a High Daylight Walker would find it difficult, meaning there's a chance that the execution wouldn't work. After all, they also said that Nagi wouldn't be able to escape, and look what happened. And based on what has been so far, it seems that Nagi=Rakan=Sacred Dragon=High Daylightwalker Evangeline (= means is roughly as powerful as). That's even if it was Nagi who "captured" her. Personally, I'm beginning to have my doubts on the whole Nagi defeats Evangeline thing. For one, she seems to be on way too good terms with the rest of Ala Rubra, like Rakan, Alberio, and Eishun. And plus, let's face it. Going by what happened in that dream flashback, falling into a pit of water filled with garlic and ect, just wouldn't work. Mostly because she's a Shinso vampire which means that she outgrew traditional vampire weakness, like garlic, ect. Second, because she can fly.

Anyway, hopefully this week's chapter will be earlier than next weeks.

[kwendy]

They said that even a High Daylight Walker would find it difficult, meaning there's a chance that the execution wouldn't work. After all, they also said that Nagi wouldn't be able to escape, and look what happened. And based on what has been so far, it seems that Nagi=Rakan=Sacred Dragon=High Daylightwalker Evangeline (= means is roughly as powerful as).

Shinso is immortal, you know, that's why. But witout her magick her body not different from 10-years old girl. I don't think she could neither escape or fight with those monsters. If she really can't fase death there, it is even more awful.

Personally, I'm beginning to have my doubts on the whole Nagi defeats Evangeline thing.

Ther'e is no doubts that Nagi defeated her, 'couse only he can curse Shinso with such a silly spell.

For one, she seems to be on way too good terms with the rest of Ala Rubra, like Rakan, Alberio, and Eishun.

I think that it's simmilar affection with Ala Alba members. Only Ken Akamatsu knows the background for sure.

And plus, let's face it. Going by what happened in that dream flashback, falling into a pit of water filled with garlic and ect, just wouldn't work. Mostly because she's a Shinso vampire which means that she outgrew traditional vampire weakness, like garlic, ect. Second, because she can fly.

I don't know how much of it was true, but according to Aphanasia's reaction to Negi peeking that dream, not so far from reality.
And about onion and garlic: that wasn't wampire weaknesses, it's just personal dislikes, like allergy to the pollen.

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by kwendy

Shinso is immortal, you know, that's why. But witout her magick her body not different from 10-years old girl. I don't think she could neither escape or fight with those monsters. If she really can't fase death there, it is even more awful.

That brings an interesting question. If someone try to take her out of mahora by force, would they just not be able to or will she die?
Anyway she is powerless as long she is under the curse on mahoha so they wouldn't be able to get her out to execute her there. And if she was at full power I doubt MM could capture her, even if they were strong enough todefeat her, she could just ran away.

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

They said that even a High Daylight Walker would find it difficult, meaning there's a chance that the execution wouldn't work. After all, they also said that Nagi wouldn't be able to escape, and look what happened. And based on what has been so far, it seems that Nagi=Rakan=Sacred Dragon=High Daylightwalker Evangeline (= means is roughly as powerful as). That's even if it was Nagi who "captured" her. Personally, I'm beginning to have my doubts on the whole Nagi defeats Evangeline thing. For one, she seems to be on way too good terms with the rest of Ala Rubra, like Rakan, Alberio, and Eishun. And plus, let's face it. Going by what happened in that dream flashback, falling into a pit of water filled with garlic and ect, just wouldn't work. Mostly because she's a Shinso vampire which means that she outgrew traditional vampire weakness, like garlic, ect. Second, because she can fly.

Anyway, hopefully this week's chapter will be earlier than next weeks.

Another hint that she wasn't being serious is that she didn't use ME at all. Anyway we shouldn't forgot that Eva has a terrible weakness against Nagi. She was in love with him.

[kwendy]

Another hint that she wasn't being serious is that she didn't use ME at all.

Probably (just my opinion), she abadoned Magia Erebea for some reason. In best case, becouse it is unreasenable powerful, there was no need for it. There were some tips about it when Rackan explained all that Dark Magick stuff, but I don't sure.

That brings an interesting question. If someone try to take her out of mahora by force, would they just not be able to or will she die?

Mayby, it'll be just like in 25-th chapter?
By the way, during the Blackout incident she onse said "we're both going to death like this".

And if she was at full power I doubt MM could capture her, even if they were strong enough todefeat her, she could just ran away.

That's true: she avoided it for several senturies, but just to imagine her in that pit...

[orangejuicetang]

Didn't Rakan say that she stopped using ME because she didn't need it anymore? She initially used it when she was weaker, and then stopped using it because she was powerful enough to not need it anymore.

And you might not realize this, but non-magic Eva is still pretty strong. Strong enough at least to go toe-to-toe with Setsuna way back during the festival tourney. And apparently, even in her normal 12-year old girl form, she can do "lol instant movement while I'm distracted". If she was in that pit, I'd imagine her just instant movementing around going "lol, I'm evil, you can't catch me". She'd probably do what Nagi did, and dash around on the worms before jumping up and out before flying away or using teleportation by shadow or she might just kill everyone there by freezing them.

[Nesty]

Originally Posted by DmonHiro

jumping into a valley that negates all magic and is filled with man eating monsters that you can't defeat, just outrun, to save the woman you love, while your four buddies hold off an army of over 5000 mages....PURE AWESOME

You forgot countless headbutts to the head of your true love as well haha

[Narona]

Originally Posted by kwendy

We know the time, when she was sealed and that she was trevelling with Nagi for some time span. Oh, and we know her apperance: her growth at Mahora was not different from other girls.
Well, don't really remember the first time they met, but Nagi reffered to her as to a little girl before they did.

???
Of course we do. It's related in the chapter 169.

And what I meant is that we don't know for how many years Asuna was kept in "kid form". In the ch169, Albireo said that "the girl's age cannot be judged just by appearance", implying that asuna was sealed in "child form" for already quite some years even before meeting nagi for the first time.

So, at that time when the war happened, Asuna may already be waaaaaaay older than Arika.

[kwendy]

And you might not realize this, but non-magic Eva is still pretty strong. Strong enough at least to go toe-to-toe with Setsuna way back during the festival tourney. And apparently, even in her normal 12-year old girl form, she can do "lol instant movement while I'm distracted". If she was in that pit, I'd imagine her just instant movementing around going "lol, I'm evil, you can't catch me". She'd probably do what Nagi did, and dash around on the worms before jumping up and out before flying away or using teleportation by shadow or she might just kill everyone there by freezing them.

Of course, ability to fight with middle scool girl with deckbrush is quite helpful in the battle with giant worms And "instant movement" is performing by concentrating magick or ki=spiritual power. It can't be used there. And shi is not powerful without magick, just skilled.

implying that asuna was sealed in "child form" for already quite some years even before meeting nagi for the first time

That reminds me 5-th element: sealed till the next danger/unsealed/sealed/unsealed...

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by kwendy

Of course, ability to fight with middle scool girl with deckbrush is quite helpful in the battle with giant worms And "instant movement" is performing by concentrating magick or ki=spiritual power. It can't be used there. And shi is not powerful without magick, just skilled.

First, she is sealed from using magic while at the school. The fact that she could still do "instant movement" thus shows that instant movement has nothing to do with concentrating magic. As for it requiring ki, it might or it might not. Off the top of my head, the people who have used instant movement are Kaede, Ku Fei, Negi, Tamachi, and Eva. It's not really stated anywhere in the manga that instant movement requires "Ki" though, and the way they were training and learning it when Negi was trying to learn it before his match with Tamachi suggested it was more a martial arts technique than it is a "ki" technique. Plus, giant worms aren't exactly the smartest creatures, since they just seem to lunge at the target.

And there's also the point that this entire thing is pretty stupid since it is highly unlikely that they would ever be able to capture Eva anyway. Who the fuck are they going to send to capture her. Ala Rubra probably wouldn't listen. The giant dragon? Who else is around her power level?

Oh, and to pull some quotes from the chapter.

"Thrust into a valley in which no magic can be used, torn into miniature scraps of flesh, which come to rest in the stomachs of monstrous beasts... Even a high daylight walker would find it difficult to come out of this alive.

Just bolding somethings that I want to point out. First, it says No Magic. Not no "Ki". So even if instant movement turns out to require "ki", there's still nothing stopping her from using it. Second, the key words are find it difficult, which is a subtle, but big difference from "find it impossible". If it was something that even a high daylight walker without magic couldn't escape from, he would have probably said something more like "Even a high daylight walker would be killed", not "find it difficult to escape". The nuance of that statement is key.

[kwendy]

Volume 13. Two Aphanasia's battles without actual magick powers. No instant movement detected. By the way, don't really think she ever used it. She is classic long-distance mage after all.
Chapter 92. Explaination of instant movement. There is a tip about magick and ki are from one source. That mean all restrictions of magick are active for ki.

Just bolding somethings that I want to point out. First, it says No Magic. Not no "Ki". So even if instant movement turns out to require "ki", there's still nothing stopping her from using it. Second, the key words are find it difficult, which is a subtle, but big difference from "find it impossible". If it was something that even a high daylight walker without magic couldn't escape from, he would have probably said something more like "Even a high daylight walker would be killed", not "find it difficult to escape". The nuance of that statement is key.

Of course it difficult to be alive if you've been cut to peases and eated. But if you're a vampire, it's not impossible But to ressurect from worm's (pardon me) shit...
Oh, and by the way: "this guy's don't gonna die just becouse he can't use his magical or spiritual energy", isn't it?

[hideki101]

Actually no, Ki and magic come from different sources. Eva states that Ki and magic will conflict without compatibility practice, a strange thing if their sources would be the same. (Chapter 60)

Looking on chapter 92, there's a better explanation for the differences. On page 5, Chamo states that magic power is more spiritual in nature, manipulating external energies, whereas Ki is externalizing your body's own power. Even though they have the same basis in the manipulation of energies, the source of those energies come from completely different areas. Come to think of it, it would be a lot easier to disempower a magic user than a Ki user; all you would have to do is to dispell all the magic in the immediate environment.

[orangejuicetang]

Okay. According to chapter 92, "Ki" and "spiritual energy" are different. Apparently "spiritual energy" is just another term for magic. Or something like that. Or at least that's what it appears to be when reading the explanation. And no, chapter 92 states that their sources are different. It basically says that magic is the spiritual power to collect external energy and use that while Ki is internal energy. Either way, it doesn't show a thing about why "Ki" wouldn't be able to used in a place with no magic. As for Eva using instant movement, look at her first match. Moving half the distance of the arena before the opponent can even react certainly seems like instant movement. Either that, or Eva is able to move at that speed without instant movement. Either way, if she is able to move as fast as she was shown during her first fight without magic when she wasn't even really paying attention, dodging worms and escaping should be no problem for her.

I mean, Nagi should only be around 16-18 when he pulls off the escape from valley with Arika stunt. Yes, he's the thousand master, but in an anti magic valley, all his spells aren't going to do anything. Either he's using "Ki" to help him move, or he was just so ridiculously fit that he could carry another person and outrun killer worms at the age of 16. I notice that people aren't saying, "Nagi can't do that because he has the body of a teenager".

Now onto the next thing. Yes, Eva is, by her own admission, a long distance fighter. However, she has also stated the differences between fighting styles break down the more powerful one becomes. And she is the inventor of M.E., which is pretty much only suited to close-distance fighting. Don't assume that because she's better at long range fighting means she's completely helpless at close range.

The point is, throw Eva in that pit, and chances are, she'll escape on her own. Nagi managed it while carrying another person. She has either instant movement, or can move ridiculously quickly even in no-magic form, considering as I mentioned above, her first fight in the tournament. I think your seriously underestimating high daylight walkers in general here. Even the main guy in charge, who was sure that even the Thousand Master would not be able to escape (which he did while carrying another person), wasn't sure that a high daylight walker wouldn't escape.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Chapter 271 spoilers are out. ^_^

http://astronerdboy.blogspot.com/200...er-images.html

[Xellos-_^]

who wants to bet that Asuna is in that robe?

[orangejuicetang]

Spoiler that please.

[kwendy]

Actually no, Ki and magic come from different sources. Eva states that Ki and magic will conflict without compatibility practice, a strange thing if their sources would be the same. (Chapter 60)

Well, my bad: 've chosen wrong word. "Without incantions it looks almost no different from the concentration of Ki. Well, that's becouse they are originally from the same root" and ""magick power" and "ki" both refer to energies that reside inside an infinite variety of living organismes". That to be correct.

As for Eva using instant movement, look at her first match. Moving half the distance of the arena before the opponent can even react certainly seems like instant movement. Either that, or Eva is able to move at that speed without instant movement. Either way, if she is able to move as fast as she was shown during her first fight without magic when she wasn't even really paying attention, dodging worms and escaping should be no problem for her.

She just went and hit her opponent in weak point. "Enter" wasn't shown, if it was shindou, so... Oh, and by the way: it is possible that Akamatsu himself didn't payed much attention at this point. After all the attention was binded to Imma and Eva's mood.
And about speed: Chachazero said her speed not different from 10-years girl when she ran back to the arena to meet fake Nagi.

It basically says that magic is the spiritual power to collect external energy and use that while Ki is internal energy. Either way, it doesn't show a thing about why "Ki" wouldn't be able to used in a place with no magic.

Either way McDowel never used Ki

Now onto the next thing. Yes, Eva is, by her own admission, a long distance fighter. However, she has also stated the differences between fighting styles break down the more powerful one becomes. And she is the inventor of M.E., which is pretty much only suited to close-distance fighting. Don't assume that because she's better at long range fighting means she's completely helpless at close range.

1) It doesn'n means she have reason to learn shindou or shikuchi. 2) Magia Erebea is suted for close battle only becouse Negi's speciality is magick fighter; the ability to adsorb enemy's and your soul's energy can be used at every distance. It was demonstrated by Negi in that "final strenght contest" with Rackan.

I mean, Nagi should only be around 16-18 when he pulls off the escape from valley with Arika stunt. Yes, he's the thousand master, but in an anti magic valley, all his spells aren't going to do anything. Either he's using "Ki" to help him move, or he was just so ridiculously fit that he could carry another person and outrun killer worms at the age of 16. I notice that people aren't saying, "Nagi can't do that because he has the body of a teenager".

1) Nagi isn't only "greates mage ever", but he is trained soldier. Of course trained 17-years teenager is much faster then even strongest 10-years girl, iven when he is carring women. + he is damn lucky
2) And yes, Nagi can't do that because he has the body of a teenager
By the way, 17-years teenager can be strong enoth and fast you know.

The point is, throw Eva in that pit, and chances are, she'll escape on her own. Nagi managed it while carrying another person. She has either instant movement, or can move ridiculously quickly even in no-magic form, considering as I mentioned above, her first fight in the tournament. I think your seriously underestimating high daylight walkers in general here. Even the main guy in charge, who was sure that even the Thousand Master would not be able to escape (which he did while carrying another person), wasn't sure that a high daylight walker wouldn't escape.

1) Can't use shindou without magick 2) I think you trust too much in the power of that chibi-bloodsucker (sound bad, but it's true ). Shinso not very different from human even if they are counted as monsters. 3) He wasn't shure Daylight Walker should survive, not escape.
+ There was high enoth to brake your legs you know.

[Von Himmel]

Spoiler:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_abkMP58OLUA/Svz51qR-ANI/AAAAAAAAQwU/2Vdkq36Qh3I/s1600-h/508530.jpg

A keyblade ? o.o