[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Yes, and he's the only one. George only cries for his family, and so does Jessica. Maria never cries (the only time she got angry after her mother was killed was EP6).

Also, I remember Shannon playing around with Gohda, after George had "died" in EP5.

When did that happen?

Also, thats easily explained by the fact that Battler was literally right there, and as previously explained, even if Jessica had died as well, both Kanon and Shannon wouldnt have found it to be such a big deal since they now had Battler to attach themselves to.

I mean, let's face it. Battler > Gohda > Sakutaro > Rudolph > Krauss > Kanon > Genji > Kinzo > Jessica > Rock > George is more or less the ranking of sex appeal in this series.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Episode4: He says he's quite willing to become the new family head.

Not exactly. He says he is prepared to be the head, and he's talking about being mentally prepared, which is different considering the circumstances. Y'know since Shannon is allegedly in a prison cell during this scene, and he can save her if he kills everyone else. This scene just elaborates more on his "I'll defeat everyone with the power of love" motif.

I also take the statement in episode 6 to a higher standard since it's a core arc as well. Killing people to be the head is kind of cheesy too since you'll have no reason to be the head after that. You'd just be by yourself.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I also take the statement in episode 6 to a higher standard since it's a core arc as well. Killing people to be the head is kind of cheesy too since you'll have no reason to be the head after that. You'd just be by yourself.

Just like Kinzo, huh?

[Redriel]

Kinzo's illness is in the blood

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by TehChron

When did that happen?

Right after EP5's 1st Twilight. You see Shannon playing around with Gohda in the kitchen.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Renall

Just like Kinzo, huh?

Well that's what Gaap says in episode 4 too. That doesn't make it any less cheesy, and I still don't like it.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Well that's what Gaap says in episode 4 too. That doesn't make it any less cheesy, and I still don't like it.

Yes, and Kinzo didn't actually kill his family, unless he has the power to conjure earthquakes.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Renall

Yes, and Kinzo didn't actually kill his family, unless he has the power to conjure earthquakes.

You could say he got Bice's "family" killed though.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Well that's what Gaap says in episode 4 too. That doesn't make it any less cheesy, and I still don't like it.

The issue here is that George is most definitely suspicious. So is Kyrie, Eva, and Hideyoshi.

So let's flip things around on Ryukishi here, for a moment.

Say Kyrie was the first major red herring, and the entire Shkannon/George dynamic is itself a deeper form of red herring, which is what some of us find ourselves disliking about the George-as-culprit concept.

Who does all of this distract us from?

Jessica has neither motive nor capacity. Battler is the detective in the question arcs, and is eliminated from contention. Magic doesnt exist (supposedly) so it can't be Maria. Mutou Rosa could do it, I mean, she hunted down Beatrice-2 in Kuwadorian as a child specifically to kill her. That's hardcore.

Krauss doesnt have a motive to kill them all. Natsuhi is not the culprit. Kumasawa always dies. Gohda is too awesome and lacks motive. Eva is constantly used to mock us, so that one's iffy at best.

Hideyoshi...I cant picture him killing anyone. Sure he's a satellite to Eva, but there's been no foreshadowing of him being able to kill. Hes been consistently, and I mean consistently, portrayed as good-natured.

Kyrie and Rudolph would be anticlimactic at this point. Kinzo is dead. Shkannon is already blatantly paraded as the device to evade the red restrictions. Genji could do it, but why? I mean, hes spent several decades being Kinzo's manservant, and he doesnt have any particular grudge against Battler thatd make him slaughter the entire family.

Kanon is too anemic to lift fertilizer, let alone shove an icepick through Hideyoshi's protective layer of fat....

Yeah, unless the culprit is really Kinzo's alternate personality Goldsmith that can be some kind of a ghost or whatever, then I think that the logical conclusion is George as the culprit.

Unless Ange used psychokinesis to blow up the island while sick because they were all playing with her Onii-Chan when she couldn't...Then I would say that covers all the characters introduced in the early parts of the story.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Renall

Yes, and Kinzo didn't actually kill his family, unless he has the power to conjure earthquakes.

Unless "Goldsmith" actually refers to Hideyoshi, and it's later revealed that Hideyoshi killed his entire family during the war.

Oh there you go maybe Hideyoshi's original last name was "Yasuda" it's not just Asumu would have family name like that.

Originally Posted by TehChron

The issue here is that George is most definitely suspicious. So is Kyrie, Eva, and Hideyoshi.

So let's flip things around on Ryukishi here, for a moment.

*snip*

Your forgetting the premise of off island masterminds that provoke the Ushiromiyas into killing each other.

like Okonogi, Asumu, and, the Witch hunt guy, Professor Ootsuki.

(OK mostly joking on that last one)

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Unless "Goldsmith" actually refers to Hideyoshi, and it's later revealed that Hideyoshi killed his entire family during the war.

Oh there you go maybe Hideyoshi's original last name was "Yasuda" it's not just Asumu would have family name like that.



Your forgetting the premise of off island masterminds that provoke the Ushiromiyas into killing each other.

like Okonogi, Asumu, and, the Witch hunt guy, Professor Ootsuki.

(OK mostly joking on that last one)

He needed to feel relevant, and so set that up so he could go around claiming to be an expert on something.

Anyway, Judoh, that premise is eliminated due to:

Originally Posted by Knox's First

The criminal must be mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to know.

[Judoh]

The only restriction Dlanor gave is that a person first mentioned in the fifth game can't be the culprit. So it's a matter of how you interpret the rule.

Being first introduced in game 4 is kind of shaky I agree, but a character first introduced by name in the first or second games like Asumu and Okonogi could still be culprits.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Judoh

The only restriction Dlanor gave is that a person first mentioned in the fifth game can't be the culprit.

Being first introduced in game 4 is kind of shaky I agree, but someone introduced in the first or second games like Asumu and Okonogi could still be culprits.

Okonogi wasnt introduced until Episode 4, though, which would at earliest be considered the opening of the second act of the story. I dunno, and Asumu has never actually been introduced, itd be pretty messed up if it turns out that Asumu had played dead all along just to...Kill her husband and his family six years after she faked her death.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by TehChron

Okonogi wasnt introduced until Episode 4, though, which would at earliest be considered the opening of the second act of the story.

Like I said he was first introduced by name in episode 2 not episode 4. That's where George learned all his tea trivia from remember? So as early as episode 2 Okonogi was introduced as a character and identified as the "tea guy" who owns Okonogi foods. See? We already know who he is and what he likes pretty early on.

[zorahk]

This is completely unrelated to the current discussion, but:

For the 1% part of the epitaph that no one has figured out,

Has anyone considered going to 旧古河庭園公園　（kyufurukawateienkouen） to solve it?
I was there the other day, here is a picture. Unfortunately the rose garden is not in bloom.
(spoiler for size, 56k beware)

Spoiler for size:

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Like I said he was first introduced by name in episode 2 not episode 4. That's where George learned all his tea trivia from remember? So as early as episode 2 Okonogi was introduced as a character and identified as the "tea guy" who owns Okonogi foods. See? We already know who he is and what he likes pretty early on.

Thats about as solid a basis for a theory as one proposing that Bernkastel or Lambadelta are the culprit.

[Judoh]

Fact: Okonogi was introduced in episode 2, which is early enough in the story for most people to notice him and his quirks as a character. That's all I was implying with that post.

The suspicious stuff about Okonogi doesn't even appear until much later. Until at least episode 4. Like Asumu his character build up is also far from complete, but if a member here can make a complete theory about Asumu I'm certain someone could make one about Okonogi.

[TehChron]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Fact: Okonogi was introduced in episode 2, which is early enough in the story for most people to notice him and his quirks as a character. That's all I was implying with that post.

The suspicious stuff about Okonogi doesn't even appear until much later. Until at least episode 4. Like Asumu his character build up is also far from complete, but if a member here can make a complete theory about Asumu I'm certain someone could make one about Okonogi.

Can someone make such a theory around Asumu?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by TehChron

Can someone make such a theory around Asumu?

Ssol already did. It's in his signature.

There's also some speculation from episode 6 that says Hachijou Tohya is her

[ijriims]

Why all the hate on George??


You know, I don't hold any prejudice against fat people wearing glasses.