2010-06-18, 19:12 | Link #11301 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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There's also a possibility that the explosion is actually not meant to kill anyone. There are two major branches of that. The first is a variation of Beatrice Bomber in which the bomb is not meant to explode at all as long as a certain condition is fullfilled -- it is a deadman device. Someone wants to stay alive, so they make sure everyone is dead if they, the only person who can disarm the bomb, aren't alive by the time everything ends. Multiple variations of that can exist but I'm afraid they don't make much sense, because they trip over the Strangelove problem. Namely, "Doctor Strangelove, or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb" features a doomsday device that automatically pollutes the entire planet into uninhabitability if an enemy nuclear bomb is detonated on Soviet territory. Normally, this is a powerful deterrent to doing that. However, it is absolutely not a deterrent if nobody knows it exists, and nobody shows they know of the endgame bomb. The other interesting branch is an explosion which is not meant to kill anyone because someone plans to save everyone instead -- the bomb being actually only meant to destroy property. There are few good reasons to do that, but the one that comes to mind is someone wishing to destroy the Ushiromiya Family as a social entity without actually killing any Ushiromiyas, by fabricating their untimely demise in a mysterious accident and providing them with new identities. This is sort of logical, but there needs to be some compelling reason to convince the survivors to abandon their previous life, (and Ange!) for which no clear hints can be seen.
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2010-06-18, 19:17 | Link #11302 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Can you throw in a Marmalade Boy ending twist to go with it? Pretty please?
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2010-06-18, 19:23 | Link #11303 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-06-18, 19:41 | Link #11304 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Point1: Why leaving Ange all alone with a sad life? Why couldn't they tell her the truth? Possible solution: The Ange of EP4 is not the real Ange, she's a dramatized version created by Hachijou, based on fragments of what is publicly known about her. The true Ange never really had such a sad life, Eva told her all the truth, and she might even secretly met her family in the meantime. Point2: Why all this time? Even if there was an "evil party X" bent on the Ushiromiya total annihilation, couldn't they come up with a plan in the meantime to solve the issue? Possible explanations: -For some reasons the plan actually took 12 years -The plan was completed but they decided to never let the world know the truth. They got used to such a life? But what kind of life are they living? alternative explanation: Kinzo built a fallout shelter in the island (can you put it past kinzo? He lived during the cold war after all). In order to escape from the explosion everyone entered inside the shelter (except Eva, that might have been separated by the other for who know which reason and doesn't know about this). The shelter was meant to save everyone and so on, but the explosion was stronger than predicted and now they are all stuck inside!!! They have been living inside the shelter for 12 years and Ange needs to go there and save them. Point3 What's the point with the messages and the letters? I still don't have a fully satisfactory explanation for those to begin with, regardless of the theory I'm exploring right now. Any other thoughts?
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2010-06-18, 20:11 | Link #11306 | |||
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Ange remains the huge stop sign though -- either we disregard her story somehow, or this doesn't work. Quote:
If the idea is to hide from the public eye and begin a new life, bottle messages would be rather detrimental to it, unless they are there to draw attention from something else...
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2010-06-18, 21:51 | Link #11307 | |
Senior Member
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Evidence for: - Maria says so (She also mentions Beatrice coming in through the crack in the door, and was in a poor position to see Natsuhi take it.) - It's described in a golden butterfly scene. Evidence against: - Jessica, George, and Battler walked right past the letter without noticing it. - It disappeared completely by the time they reached Natsuhi's body. - Even if Natsuhi saw the letter first, she might order somebody else to open it. (She ordered Battler to open and read the study letter.) Maybe the letter was completely fake and there's a different reason why Natsuhi left the room.
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2010-06-18, 22:56 | Link #11308 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
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Natsuhi might have stepped on the letter or next to it, she didn't want to children to see it, so she opened it without telling them. Reading the letter which said probably something like they are going to kill everyone. Natsuhi deciding to keep the children safe leaves to confront the culprit, and then locks the door to keep them safe. |
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2010-06-18, 23:09 | Link #11309 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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If not for Ange, the whole "fake-kill everybody and slip away with the gold to a new life in some foreign country" thing would make a lot of sense for Rokkenjima-Prime, but I just can't see Eva and Ange getting abandoned and I don't really buy them actually being in on it. Is it possible? I guess. It's pretty convoluted.
To say nothing of all the servants. To complete the illusion, they'd also have to disappear. Why even involve somebody like Gohda, who has no idea what's going on? What, are you gonna pay him off, and Dr. Nanjo, to pretend they're dead to anyone who might have cared about them? What about Nanjo's grandchild, surely he cares about being there for that? If the goal was to fake-disappear the family, having just the one-winged servants on duty would've been the best way to do it. Make up some excuse, I don't know. There's also the question of what they would have done had Battler not come. They can't postpone a plan like that, they're on the brink of ruin. Was the original plan to just ditch Battler and Ange? Except Ange was supposed to be at the conference. So was the plan to just leave all the family debts and remaining assets to Battler and hope for the best? How would that square with "Beatrice" wanting him to remember something? It's awfully hard to make any sense of it. Doesn't seem workable to me.
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2010-06-19, 00:13 | Link #11310 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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For what concerns Eva I have since a while thought a way to explain why she's left behind.
I thought that maybe for the plan to work someone needs to "sacrifice" himself to save everyone else. In other words someone needed to take care of the family's assets while dodging all kind of murderous plans from the sumadera (hand who knows what else). And this kind of reminded me of the test in Ep4. "Sacrifice yourself to save everyone else" Why the "sacrifice" must involve death? This is a test meant to choose the new head, and we know there is no right or wrong answer. But then how can "sacrifice yourself" be a correct answer? How can you become the new head if you die? But it can work if the sacrifice doesn't involve suicide but something else. So maybe Eva metaphorically took that test, she chose to sacrifice herself, and as a consequence, she became the new head.
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2010-06-19, 10:02 | Link #11311 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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As Kinzo has said, there was no correct answer, what mattered was the reason. A reason which showed that the person had the determination, wisdom to resurrect the Ushiromiya family.
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2010-06-19, 12:43 | Link #11312 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Of course we could always use they theory that they were killed some other way and that they used a sander or something to do that to their faces afterward. And the death faking. We gotta find some way for there to be a rekiller though if they're faking.
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2010-06-19, 12:51 | Link #11313 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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P.S.: That would incidentally provide an absolutely perfect reason for George to shoot the first twilight victims and nobody else.
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2010-06-19, 13:22 | Link #11314 | |
Senior Member
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Why would she have wanted to prevent the children to knowing about the letter? She didn't care when they learned what was in the previous two, and before she opens it, she has no reason to suspect this letter will be different. Opening an envelope and reading the contents while holding a gun ready is very awkward. She'd need a good reason to open it herself instead of having Battler do it. Also, when Maria supposedly saw Natsuhi reading the letter: 1) Battler was standing right in front of her, between her and Natsuhi, and he's a big guy. 2) When somebody's grabbing you / talking you, there's a strong tendency to focus on them. Maria's specifically described as making eye contact with George. Natsuhi would be at a distance and out of focus.
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2010-06-19, 14:56 | Link #11315 |
Endless Turnless
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Oh dear lord the horrible mental image
As for what comes to Natsuhi in episode 1's parlor scene, she definitely has to leave at the exact moment that Battler throws the candlestick. That is, after Maria mentions Beatrice. They don't talk that long with Maria, so she has had to act fast, and I don't think the time there would have allowed her to crab a letter from the ground, open it up, and read it, unless it would have been extremely short letter. A funny thing about the ending of episode 1, though, is that both George and Jessica basically drive them forward the whole time. The moment the phone rings, both Jessica and George urge Natsuhi to answer it, which is then followed by George remembering that Maria mentioned parlor. They also spot Maria first, and George is first to point out that Natsuhi is gone. To me, it feels bit similiar how Hideyoshi and Eva are unusually pushy in episode 5 when it comes to cornering Natsuhi with accusiations.
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2010-06-19, 15:23 | Link #11316 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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I wouldn't be surprised if EVERYONE except Battler was involved in one of at least two mass murder plots, as this point. |
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2010-06-19, 15:38 | Link #11317 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I'm actually not sure that a way to get Battler involved in one in an active role without his knowledge does not exist. Manipulating someone like this is art, but is occasionally possible, and generally falls under artistic license when fictionalised.
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2010-06-19, 16:05 | Link #11318 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Maybe this is what the EP6 love duel was talking about? Kanon sacrificed himself so he became the new head. And therefore he didn't 'exist' anymore. So maybe there are two possible new heads that Kinzo had already picked out. Shannon and Kanon. And Battler was a late addition? It would explain why the gold was 'already someone else's.' With the exception in EP4 where the rest of the cousins were given a chance to become the new heads too. |
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2010-06-19, 16:06 | Link #11319 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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He could be (and judging by his words at the end of the episode, probably is) involved in Ep5's Scare the Shit Out of Natsuhi plot, but I don't think he can have anything to do with the actual murders. I think we had this discussion earlier, but being an accomplice, even unwittingly, should still count as being a "culprit" for the purposes of red text.
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2010-06-20, 10:26 | Link #11320 | |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Does anyone know if 07 had anything to do with the Character songs?
For some reason Jessica says these two lines in the song: Quote:
Ruuju, Nowaaru, Kyaneru, Ibowa-ru Or Miracle, Magic, Endless, Paradise Rouge, Noir, Cannelle, Yvoire. Cannelle is a place on the island Corsica, which is part of France. Yvoire is also a place in France, but on the mainland. Near the Swiss Alps. If he DID have anything to do with this, why did he randomly drop two places in France? And these lyrics are ones that officially came with the booklet of the song. And the katakana are spelled out exactly how the places are usually spelled in katakana This bugs me :/ |
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