Higurashi (1st Season) General Discussion

[Boukenxha]

Spoiler for Hmm I think I sense a pattern (?) from all this talk about the syringe:

The "gomenasai" from the dying Keiichi came from Rena in the same episode, the throat scratching thing was told to him in earlier episodes and the syringe he saw while he was at the clinic. So was Keiichi's hallucinations and actions somehow based on his past experiences? It will be interesting to see if there's any parallel to the ohagi/needle and the van incident in the later chapters.

Spoiler for my thoughts on the triggers for Keiichi's paranoia.:

People think the injection the doctor gave could contain hallucinogen, I think that point is valid. Another one I thought of is the talk with Oishi in the restaurant. Oishi told Keiichi how his friends were linked to the murders and warned him that he was in danger. Before that, I think he hardly thought he would be in danger. As far as he is concerned, he was only the informant hiding this secret from his friends. That warning, could it be what we call a sublimal message planted into Keiichi's mind?

Another key scene would be the ohagi incident, irregardless of whether the needle was real or not. It did start off an irreversible chain of events where Keiichi became convinced his friends were trying to kill him. Before that, he was still somewhat friendly with his friends. Even when Mion and Rena visted, he was still playing around and asking if they were really there for club activity. And more importantly, he ate the ohagi (be it in his mind or he really ate it). So we can probably establish that he trusted his friends enough to eat the food they offered.

Yeah I'm thinking the trigger point is quite possibly the needle. In that case, the question would then be, did the doctor's jab or Oishi's suggestion or both combined cause him to imagine the needle? Was there a parallel incident causing Keiichi to imagine the needle? Was it something else he bit on?

Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2

Okay about the Sevens Mart tip in the TIPS section:

Spoiler for my thoughts about that tip:

That tip seems to me like it's describing what was going on in Keiichi's mind from the time he was on the run till he tore his throat in the phone booth. The shadow behind his back that he couldn't shake off, that he didn't dare turn around to look, he said the same things to Oishi too. The last part could describe how his hands were tearing through his throat (adam's apple?), but his brain was registering those action later ie. his hands were no longer under his control or something. Urgh, I'm getting goosebumps just typing that out!

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by Chibi_Faerie

Ok then, now knowing the huge hint...

Spoiler for title:

It leads to perhaps that Keiichi was so incredibly paranoid, out of it and hallucinating at this point that perhaps the punishment game was the marker again, and not a needle. He mistook one for the other, a marker mistaken for a needle... But he was so paranoid that he saw the marker as a needle and totally snapped...? Gosh I need to learn to read Japanese!!

That gives me a slight idea. Speculation time again

Spoiler:

So if the Syringe/marker pic apparently says not to mistake one for the other, what if after the marker incident, which was actually the first syringe incident, he THINKS it's a marker after the shot?

Okay, that might be a l'il too farfetched, but still possible.

[Paranoia833]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

That gives me a slight idea. Speculation time again

Spoiler:

So if the Syringe/marker pic apparently says not to mistake one for the other, what if after the marker incident, which was actually the first syringe incident, he THINKS it's a marker after the shot?

Okay, that might be a l'il too farfetched, but still possible.

Possible but not particularly probable (and the first person to quote Sherlock Holmes to me gets a whack from the +4 baseball bat of Loli-slaying )

Spoiler:

I mean I know TV-show speculation is hardly a science, but let's try applying some mangled form of Occam's Razor.

Assuming from the picture and KJ's hints that the Keiichi confuses a marker and a syringe at some point, it makes more sense that Keiichi confuses Mion's second penalty game (as by the this point he is extremely paranoid and possibly prone to hallucinations with the 'slit eye' syndrome, not to mention the needle never pricks him, so he won't notice the lack of pain) than him confusing a needle for a marker in the first game (when he shows no signs of mental instability, and where he would be required to completely fail to notice the pain of injection).

Hence it's far simpler to assume that, in this case at least, there never was a syringe. The doctor's injection on the other hand, is potentially more suspicious.

Unless additional evidence crops up, I'd say it's easier to assume Chibi has it right.

[Chibi_Faerie]

*Makes a mental note to not quote Sherlock Holmes when Paranoia is present.* If only more could be seen of all this between those gaps in what happens at parts.

Originally posted by Paranoia833

Spoiler for title:

I mean I know TV-show speculation is hardly a science, but let's try applying some mangled form of Occam's Razor.

Assuming from the picture and KJ's hints that the Keiichi confuses a marker and a syringe at some point, it makes more sense that Keiichi confuses Mion's second penalty game (as by the this point he is extremely paranoid and possibly prone to hallucinations with the 'slit eye' syndrome, not to mention the needle never pricks him, so he won't notice the lack of pain) than him confusing a needle for a marker in the first game (when he shows no signs of mental instability, and where he would be required to completely fail to notice the pain of injection).

Hence it's far simpler to assume that, in this case at least, there never was a syringe. The doctor's injection on the other hand, is potentially more suspicious.

Spoiler for title:

I agree with this, we don't even see if the needle makes contact and injects anything. It skips to memories. Which really makes me think it was only a marker and hallucinations. The first injection by the doctor is the one that is very suspicious.. I mean what doctor gives injections for a cold. And Keiichi just said he wasn't feeling well, perhaps faking and having to go to the doctor on his mothers orders. Or hallucinating that he is sick himself maybe from stressing over things? Either way the doctor would know anyways and then what reason would there be to give him a shot...? And if he had a slight cold, something to prevent it from getting worse...? I just couldn't see that.

All I know is I wanna see more and find out more about all of this. One thing just seems to lead to another or at most a half a dozen other possibilities...

[MarmoO]

Originally Posted by Paranoia833

Possible but not particularly probable (and the first person to quote Sherlock Holmes to me gets a whack from the +4 baseball bat of Loli-slaying )

Spoiler:

I mean I know TV-show speculation is hardly a science, but let's try applying some mangled form of Occam's Razor.

Assuming from the picture and KJ's hints that the Keiichi confuses a marker and a syringe at some point, it makes more sense that Keiichi confuses Mion's second penalty game (as by the this point he is extremely paranoid and possibly prone to hallucinations with the 'slit eye' syndrome, not to mention the needle never pricks him, so he won't notice the lack of pain) than him confusing a needle for a marker in the first game (when he shows no signs of mental instability, and where he would be required to completely fail to notice the pain of injection).

Hence it's far simpler to assume that, in this case at least, there never was a syringe. The doctor's injection on the other hand, is potentially more suspicious.

Unless additional evidence crops up, I'd say it's easier to assume Chibi has it right.

Spoiler:

But it is rather hard to believe that girls would try to play a penalty game, if we assume they have at least some common sense, they would know that it isn't safe. Mion heard him - "You won't get me that easily" and Rena expirienced his determination - crushed fingers. There must be something deeper behind this marker and syringe...l I wonder how many times we have seen Sion in first four episodes, thinking that she is Mion herself.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by MarmoO

Spoiler:

But it is rather hard to believe that girls would try to play a penalty game, if we assume they have at least some common sense, they would know that it isn't safe. Mion heard him - "You won't get me that easily" and Rena expirienced his determination - crushed fingers. There must be something deeper behind this marker and syringe...l I wonder how many times we have seen Sion in first four episodes, thinking that she is Mion herself.

To get rid of wild speculations: Shion does not make an appearance in Onikakushi-hen.

[MarmoO]

To get rid of wild speculations: Shion does not make an appearance in Onikakushi-hen

Just now you have ruined my new theory ;(.

[melange]

Warrrghh... preparations for comprehensive exams for graduation means I can't spend time thinking about whats going on in this series... definitely following it because of the brilliant creep-out/horror (one of my favourite genres) and the lovable(?) psycho-lolis.

Come to think of it... following on a this blog post, does anyone know the development of the girls-who-go-psycho-on-you trend? Besides Higurashi, there's Kaede of Shuffle, Sakura of Fate Stay Night, the girls of School Days... I'm personally also wondering how the Battle Royale nutcases of Soma Mitsuko and Chigusa Takako fit into this.

PS. If there is a thread somewhere that talks about this please point me there my attempts at searching didn't prove fruitful.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by melange

Warrrghh... preparations for comprehensive exams for graduation means I can't spend time thinking about whats going on in this series... definitely following it because of the brilliant creep-out/horror (one of my favourite genres) and the lovable(?) psycho-lolis.

Come to think of it... following on a this blog post, does anyone know the development of the girls-who-go-psycho-on-you trend? Besides Higurashi, there's Kaede of Shuffle, Sakura of Fate Stay Night, the girls of School Days... I'm personally also wondering how the Battle Royale nutcases of Soma Mitsuko and Chigusa Takako fit into this.

PS. If there is a thread somewhere that talks about this please point me there my attempts at searching didn't prove fruitful.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=117

Also, this should be useful in this theory discussion page:

Originally Posted by Imaginary_num6er

Spoiler:

Who is the "director":
At first, one might think the "director" was Oyashiro-sama himself, but you would see in this scene:

That the person in the labcoat is probably the "director" and also a doctor. Personally, I think the whole incident was a coup by Takano-san and the "director."

Think of other homonyms/synonyms of the word "kantoku" in Japanese. The word "kantoku" can mean a lot of things, you know?

If I were the translator, I wouldn't translate "kantoku" in this sense as "the director." I would use the word...."the manager." What kind of managers are there? It important to keep that in mind as we get to Tatarigoroshi-hen. By the time we get there, "the director" translation will make no complete sense as opposed to "the manager" translation.

[Boukenxha]

Originally Posted by melange

Come to think of it... following on a this blog post, does anyone know the development of the girls-who-go-psycho-on-you trend? Besides Higurashi, there's Kaede of Shuffle, Sakura of Fate Stay Night, the girls of School Days... I'm personally also wondering how the Battle Royale nutcases of Soma Mitsuko and Chigusa Takako fit into this.

And it gets even scarier to know that we have Nevada-tan and Sakakibara in real life.

[melange]

Originally Posted by Manatsu

And it gets even scarier to know that we have Nevada-tan and Sakakibara in real life.

I don't know about Sakakibara but Nevada-tan herself was definitely influenced by Battle Royale. Perhaps the audience that latched onto the Nevada-tan phenomenon is the same audience that was attracted to the psycho-girls of Battle Royale in the first place... As such, kj1980... do you know if there's any relation between BR (published 1999) and Higurashi (released 2002) itself?

[Morgri]

Spoiler:

I still think you guys are putting to much on what could have been Keichi's hullicinations. As it stands, any of that could have really happened. If it all happened in Keichi's head, the it could be that no one died... hey who knows the girls he killed could have just been his imagination... It's just as plausable as anything else.

[FubaredByAnime]

It's too dead here, so I'm going to add some speculation, whether I believe any of it or not.

Spoiler:

After watching ep 4 again, I realized that Oishi stated at the end that there was no evidence of substance abuse. This would give credence to the idea that there was no syringe to begin with. Of course, CSI didn't exist back then, so the coroner could have missed bruising from an injection, but that's highly unlikely.

If this is the case, then the questions are, what got placed next to the Keichi's note (some of us believe we know due to hints from another thread) and why was it signficant enough to be removed from the clock?

Also, I'm more inclined to believe that the doctor had nothing to due with Keichi's spiral downfall. He was getting paranoid beforehandhand. In fact, it started around the time he was in the garbage dump with Rena and Tomitake, who met the same fate as Keichi. Hmmmmm ... the garbage dump ...

[Sindas]

Hi, this is my first post at the AnimeSuki board.
I actually joined this board only for Higurashi... this show makes me insane, I can't wait for the next episode...

Well in the end I joined because I wanted to be part of this great speculation circle. For me Higurashi is not only a great anime but half of its fun come from the speculations you can get out of it.

PS: I'm French Canadian so plz forgive the English mistakes, I know I make a lot.

Now then for my own speculation:

Spoiler for Speculation about Onikakushi-hen:

After reading all the post in this speculation thread and the tips by kj1980 and Sushi-Y, I decided to go with the group of people that thinks Keiichi is in fact insane. After all, kj1980 or Sushi-Y, I don't remember which one said that one of us who had a theory about an insane Keiichi got 20% out of the truth.

With this in mind, looking back at the episode I came up with the idea that Mion's and Rena's "lizard eyes" are actually a tip to tell us that Keiichi is currently hallucinating while the "normal eyes" means that he's currently sane.

This brought me to look at the "syringe" scene at the end. Mion starts her "penalty game" and goes to remove the cap of her syringe. I believe it's not a syringe but actually the marker she used in the first episode. At this point Keiichi is hallucinating, the scene is nearly identical to the first "punishment game", and same kind of smile by Mion, Rena takes the same position to hold Keiichi. There's actually a lot of detail given to the fact that Mion is removing the cap of her syringe, this is because she's actually removing the cap of her marker.

After I came up with that I had to explain the rest. I think that Keiichi is prone to be insane, in one of the TIP they say that a big hit would provoke the insanity. Like a lot of us thought, I think that when he falls at the beginning of the second ep he hurts his head. However, he's not yet insane, what makes him insane at this point are both Tomitake (did I get the name right?) and Oishi.

kj1980 told us it ended in a tragedy, with this in mind I don't think there's a conspiracy or that anyone is evil, not counting Keiichi turned totally insane at the end. For me, Oishi and Tomitake simply influenced Keiichi's mind with they're stories not knowing that he had a problem. Oishi wanted an inside on the children to examine a possible lead, since he didn't want to lose his bonus (see the TIPS) he did it in secret (mahjong parlor, bookstore calls, etc.)

Now, for Tomitake, I'm very unsure about his case. My guess is that he was an investigator from Tokyo to search for the murderer of the dam (The one that escaped, see the tips). In the TIPS they say they have no information about him, I think it's because he's undercover. On the night he died the murderer found out about him and killed him in a way I can't imagine... The girl could even be the murderer herself, who knows?

The important thing about this is that Keiichi somehow associate his murder to the girls... Making him more paranoiacs and making him imagine that "Oyashiro-sama" or a "drug impossible to track" can make you crush your own throat. At the end, he believes he's been poisoned or taken over, his insanity makes him copy the way Tomitake died.

Now to explain all the "weird eyes" event from Rena and Mion. Like I said earlier, I think that when their eyes are normal, Keiichi has a moment of sanity thus the scene develops like seen. Thinking that Keiichi now make everything bigger, during the first episode Keiichi ask about the murder and Rena hide and Mion hides it. I think they just want to keep a friend out of a dark story that doesn’t concern him especially since they lost Satoshi earlier. However, since he hits his head and became paranoiac because of Oishi he believe they have something to hide, bringing us to the first crazy Rena scene. (See another TIP that says that Oishi makes people insane saying he's an agent of Oyashiro-sama. By the way, I believe it's just a superstition yet all the girls believe in it.)

Then we move to Keiichi fearing his conversation was heard. I think Rena heard it and became aware that Keiichi was searching about the dam event. Being superstitious and having lost Satoshi, she leaves because she doesn't want to talk about it. Keiichi however gets more paranoiac and gets himself sick or fake sickness to get himself back together the next day.

For the doctors shot at this point is just a normal shot, it's something to make you go off track. The hints repeatedly mention that "no drugs were found" yet at the same time this is bound to make you think about drugs and make you go off track. The important point is the lunch with Oishi where he tells Keiichi that he's in danger. BIG BIG fuck up in Keiichi's mind is paranoiac mode now reaches new skies.

Then comes the needle scene. Like many thought, I think Keiichi hallucinated it. If you remove the creepy factor from the conversation with the girls is sounds more like they want to know how he is and they really would like to have him at school tomorrow. Something like school was boring without Keiichi, come tomorrow please.

However, needle happens and he goes to insane Keiichi with bat. For me, this is an important shifting point, I think that at this point, the girls notice something is not quite right with our dear Keiichi. This is proven with the sad Rena telling the tale of Satoshi. Satoshi probably also became paranoiac because of Oishi, he had just lost his parents and someone comes and tells him he's in danger (see the TIP were Oishi is an agent of Oyashiro-sama). If a cop came and told me I was in danger after loosing both my parents, I would be paranoiac too.

Satoshi probably ended up in a mental institution or something along the line, he disappeared, committed suicide, etc. Rena was probably told he transferred out yet she thinks its Oyashiro-sama and fear for Keiichi. Keiichi however goes insane and freaks out from the "transferred out" taking it for something along the lines of "I killed him".

At this point, I'm pretty confident Rena's in love with Keiichi yet she fears about his condition. Making one last try, she goes to his home to explain things but Keiichis crush her hand. I think that this event make Rena believe that Keiichi might not be right in his head and after consulting Mion, who just happened to learn all about Keiichi's paranoia by Keiichi himself. I think that Mion knows that Satoshi was insane and that Keiichi is following the same path. She hates Oishi because he is the cause of the paranoia for both boys.

Keiichi on the road now thinks he will be killed, "crazy Rena" appears with a machete. Since she has the eyes Keiichi is insane and there are probably no machete. (IMPORTANT, she as the eyes the whole scene showing that Keiichi is hallucinating and explains why he sees the weapon the whole time.) What I think really happened is that Rena and Mion decided to send Keiichi to the hospital, yet she still wanted to declare her love thus the kiss. Explaining everything to workers in the forestry, they agree to bring Keiichi home by force if Rena can't convince him. (THIS IS A BIG SPECULATION NO PROOF WHAT SO EVER.)

At home she calls Mion and the doctor to bring Keiichi to the hospital. Mion arrive yet Keiichi wakes up. To make things comfortable they decide to relax him by telling him they told a baseball "manager" about him. (kj1980 said manger was a better translation than director, helped me a lot.) Unknown to them Keiichi is far more insane than they thought and doesn’t make the connection between his earlier actions and the manager story. They the want to remake the punishment joke, see what I said at the beginning yet Keiichi goes crazy and kills them both.

He then finishes his note and tape the "marker behind his clock". When you look at who arrives at the door, I'm pretty sure that's the doctor from episode 3. He comes with men to bring insane Keiichi to the hospital at the request of the girls.

Having killed his friends Keiichi goes completely insane and can't come back to reality (see the last TIP of Onikakushi-hen). He goes to the phone and kills himself for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Last thing, I think the van was just an error from the driver yet Keiichi freaked out and began to fear everyone.

The BIG thing that this theory can't explain: why the note was cut and why the "syringe" or "marker" disappeared? Also, why was Rena pretty insane when she was young?

Well I had fun writing this, now that I look at it, it's super long... sorry about that, it's just that I really like this show.
Please tell me what you think about this...

[Shinndou]

Hello everybody, I'm a first time poster as well, I've been lurking around a bit though I decided to join up the conversation and speculation on this amazing and intriguing anime.

Anyway, onto speculations, I mostly agree with Sindas' theory, especially on the bit regarding

Spoiler for speculation on Onikakushi-hen's theories:

The syringe scene in episode four and its similiraties with the 'punishment game' scene in episode one. Just like Sindas has assumed, I am convinced that Keiichi, in an irreversible state of paranoia/mental insanity, hallucinated during the scene in episode four, mistaking a simple marker for a syringe.

With this speculation in mind, I am also tempted to say that the real trigger point to Keiichi's paranoia was the first punishment scene in episode one. One of the reasons that leads me to assume this possibility is due to these frames that are shown right after the marker scene:




It's as if the producers wanted to hint that something started to fall. I don't think that little sequence was put right there out of randomness, as it does somehow hint that something changed.

Now, having said this, and supposing that the scene in episode four was just 'an other marker-punishment' and not the injection that Keiichi believed to see, why would the two girls still do that right after Keiichi 'supposedly' woke up? Was that a way to cheer him up? It sorted the opposite effect though.

Moving on an other fact, I do suspect just as Sindas said, that a syringe is still somehow involved in the whole matter. More precisely, I do find suspicious that the 'doctor' decided to do an injection on Keiichi when he went to the clinic even if we all know that Keiichi was most probably faking a cold. Keeping this fact in mind, it would partially explain why the bit of paper from Keiichi's letter (where he mentions a syringe) is stolen, most likely by the green guys+doctor that we see right at the entrance of Keiichi's house in episode four.

So yeah, I'm not totally excluding the possibility that something related to injections and 'drugs' might still play a part in the whole mistery, though I also find it improbable and difficult to say that everything that happened during the four episodes was due to it. There is surely something that we don't know about the syringe that might be revealed later, but it also remains a strong theory that this escalation of events was mostly caused by Keiichi's paranoia. Was it one thing or was it the other? I'm tempted to say it was both, or more precisely I'd give a good 60% (if not more) to Keiichi's insanity, and the rest to a possible 'drug/substance/whatever' injection performed by the doctor at the clinic.

And that's it. I won't be speculating anything yet on Watanagashi-hen till the whole chapter will have concluded as well, unless it gives some interesting hint regarding Onikakushi-hen of course. ^_^

[Rasuberi]

Originally Posted by Shinndou

Hello everybody, I'm a first time poster as well, I've been lurking around a bit though I decided to join up the conversation and speculation on this amazing and intriguing anime.

Anyway, onto speculations, I mostly agree with Sindas' theory, especially on the bit regarding

Spoiler for speculation on Onikakushi-hen's theories:

The syringe scene in episode four and its similiraties with the 'punishment game' scene in episode one. Just like Sindas has assumed, I am convinced that Keiichi, in an irreversible state of paranoia/mental insanity, hallucinated during the scene in episode four, mistaking a simple marker for a syringe.

With this speculation in mind, I am also tempted to say that the real trigger point to Keiichi's paranoia was the first punishment scene in episode one. One of the reasons that leads me to assume this possibility is due to these frames that are shown right after the marker scene:




It's as if the producers wanted to hint that something started to fall. I don't think that little sequence was put right there out of randomness, as it does somehow hint that something changed.

Now, having said this, and supposing that the scene in episode four was just 'an other marker-punishment' and not the injection that Keiichi believed to see, why would the two girls still do that right after Keiichi 'supposedly' woke up? Was that a way to cheer him up? It sorted the opposite effect though.

Moving on an other fact, I do suspect just as Sindas said, that a syringe is still somehow involved in the whole matter. More precisely, I do find suspicious that the 'doctor' decided to do an injection on Keiichi when he went to the clinic even if we all know that Keiichi was most probably faking a cold. Keeping this fact in mind, it would partially explain why the bit of paper from Keiichi's letter (where he mentions a syringe) is stolen, most likely by the green guys+doctor that we see right at the entrance of Keiichi's house in episode four.

So yeah, I'm not totally excluding the possibility that something related to injections and 'drugs' might still play a part in the whole mistery, though I also find it improbable and difficult to say that everything that happened during the four episodes was due to it. There is surely something that we don't know about the syringe that might be revealed later, but it also remains a strong theory that this escalation of events was mostly caused by Keiichi's paranoia. Was it one thing or was it the other? I'm tempted to say it was both, or more precisely I'd give a good 60% (if not more) to Keiichi's insanity, and the rest to a possible 'drug/substance/whatever' injection performed by the doctor at the clinic.

And that's it. I won't be speculating anything yet on Watanagashi-hen till the whole chapter will have concluded as well, unless it gives some interesting hint regarding Onikakushi-hen of course. ^_^

I agree with the flower falling scene... I didn't notice it until I was watching the first two episodes again on my iPod with my friend in English..

Hehe... I made her another Higurashi fan. She's depressed because we probably wont have time to watch it in class next week. (There is a lot of testing going on for people so classes are small.) Aha... I've also been drawing psycho pictures in class... with friends. My Japanese teacher was kind of worried and said "I don't know if I should look at this as a red-flag... and tell someone about it." I was drawing the scene from the opening of episode five, and I told my friend to draw a girl killing herself (a very pretty picture).

I'm starting to get very interested in Satoko... I can't wait to see more about her~ I wonder when we should learn more about Satoko.

[Freakman]

Satoko's chapter is Tatarigoroshi, which should be eps 9-12 if they keep up that 4 eps/ chapter speed.

[SvenTheSweeper]

Originally Posted by Sindas

Hi, this is my first post at the AnimeSuki board.
I actually joined this board only for Higurashi... this show makes me insane, I can't wait for the next episode...

Well in the end I joined because I wanted to be part of this great speculation circle. For me Higurashi is not only a great anime but half of its fun come from the speculations you can get out of it.

PS: I'm French Canadian so plz forgive the English mistakes, I know I make a lot.

Now then for my own speculation:

Spoiler for Speculation about Onikakushi-hen:

After reading all the post in this speculation thread and the tips by kj1980 and Sushi-Y, I decided to go with the group of people that thinks Keiichi is in fact insane. After all, kj1980 or Sushi-Y, I don't remember which one said that one of us who had a theory about an insane Keiichi got 20% out of the truth.

With this in mind, looking back at the episode I came up with the idea that Mion's and Rena's "lizard eyes" are actually a tip to tell us that Keiichi is currently hallucinating while the "normal eyes" means that he's currently sane.

This brought me to look at the "syringe" scene at the end. Mion starts her "penalty game" and goes to remove the cap of her syringe. I believe it's not a syringe but actually the marker she used in the first episode. At this point Keiichi is hallucinating, the scene is nearly identical to the first "punishment game", and same kind of smile by Mion, Rena takes the same position to hold Keiichi. There's actually a lot of detail given to the fact that Mion is removing the cap of her syringe, this is because she's actually removing the cap of her marker.

After I came up with that I had to explain the rest. I think that Keiichi is prone to be insane, in one of the TIP they say that a big hit would provoke the insanity. Like a lot of us thought, I think that when he falls at the beginning of the second ep he hurts his head. However, he's not yet insane, what makes him insane at this point are both Tomitake (did I get the name right?) and Oishi.

kj1980 told us it ended in a tragedy, with this in mind I don't think there's a conspiracy or that anyone is evil, not counting Keiichi turned totally insane at the end. For me, Oishi and Tomitake simply influenced Keiichi's mind with they're stories not knowing that he had a problem. Oishi wanted an inside on the children to examine a possible lead, since he didn't want to lose his bonus (see the TIPS) he did it in secret (mahjong parlor, bookstore calls, etc.)

Now, for Tomitake, I'm very unsure about his case. My guess is that he was an investigator from Tokyo to search for the murderer of the dam (The one that escaped, see the tips). In the TIPS they say they have no information about him, I think it's because he's undercover. On the night he died the murderer found out about him and killed him in a way I can't imagine... The girl could even be the murderer herself, who knows?

The important thing about this is that Keiichi somehow associate his murder to the girls... Making him more paranoiacs and making him imagine that "Oyashiro-sama" or a "drug impossible to track" can make you crush your own throat. At the end, he believes he's been poisoned or taken over, his insanity makes him copy the way Tomitake died.

Now to explain all the "weird eyes" event from Rena and Mion. Like I said earlier, I think that when their eyes are normal, Keiichi has a moment of sanity thus the scene develops like seen. Thinking that Keiichi now make everything bigger, during the first episode Keiichi ask about the murder and Rena hide and Mion hides it. I think they just want to keep a friend out of a dark story that doesn’t concern him especially since they lost Satoshi earlier. However, since he hits his head and became paranoiac because of Oishi he believe they have something to hide, bringing us to the first crazy Rena scene. (See another TIP that says that Oishi makes people insane saying he's an agent of Oyashiro-sama. By the way, I believe it's just a superstition yet all the girls believe in it.)

Then we move to Keiichi fearing his conversation was heard. I think Rena heard it and became aware that Keiichi was searching about the dam event. Being superstitious and having lost Satoshi, she leaves because she doesn't want to talk about it. Keiichi however gets more paranoiac and gets himself sick or fake sickness to get himself back together the next day.

For the doctors shot at this point is just a normal shot, it's something to make you go off track. The hints repeatedly mention that "no drugs were found" yet at the same time this is bound to make you think about drugs and make you go off track. The important point is the lunch with Oishi where he tells Keiichi that he's in danger. BIG BIG fuck up in Keiichi's mind is paranoiac mode now reaches new skies.

Then comes the needle scene. Like many thought, I think Keiichi hallucinated it. If you remove the creepy factor from the conversation with the girls is sounds more like they want to know how he is and they really would like to have him at school tomorrow. Something like school was boring without Keiichi, come tomorrow please.

However, needle happens and he goes to insane Keiichi with bat. For me, this is an important shifting point, I think that at this point, the girls notice something is not quite right with our dear Keiichi. This is proven with the sad Rena telling the tale of Satoshi. Satoshi probably also became paranoiac because of Oishi, he had just lost his parents and someone comes and tells him he's in danger (see the TIP were Oishi is an agent of Oyashiro-sama). If a cop came and told me I was in danger after loosing both my parents, I would be paranoiac too.

Satoshi probably ended up in a mental institution or something along the line, he disappeared, committed suicide, etc. Rena was probably told he transferred out yet she thinks its Oyashiro-sama and fear for Keiichi. Keiichi however goes insane and freaks out from the "transferred out" taking it for something along the lines of "I killed him".

At this point, I'm pretty confident Rena's in love with Keiichi yet she fears about his condition. Making one last try, she goes to his home to explain things but Keiichis crush her hand. I think that this event make Rena believe that Keiichi might not be right in his head and after consulting Mion, who just happened to learn all about Keiichi's paranoia by Keiichi himself. I think that Mion knows that Satoshi was insane and that Keiichi is following the same path. She hates Oishi because he is the cause of the paranoia for both boys.

Keiichi on the road now thinks he will be killed, "crazy Rena" appears with a machete. Since she has the eyes Keiichi is insane and there are probably no machete. (IMPORTANT, she as the eyes the whole scene showing that Keiichi is hallucinating and explains why he sees the weapon the whole time.) What I think really happened is that Rena and Mion decided to send Keiichi to the hospital, yet she still wanted to declare her love thus the kiss. Explaining everything to workers in the forestry, they agree to bring Keiichi home by force if Rena can't convince him. (THIS IS A BIG SPECULATION NO PROOF WHAT SO EVER.)

At home she calls Mion and the doctor to bring Keiichi to the hospital. Mion arrive yet Keiichi wakes up. To make things comfortable they decide to relax him by telling him they told a baseball "manager" about him. (kj1980 said manger was a better translation than director, helped me a lot.) Unknown to them Keiichi is far more insane than they thought and doesn’t make the connection between his earlier actions and the manager story. They the want to remake the punishment joke, see what I said at the beginning yet Keiichi goes crazy and kills them both.

He then finishes his note and tape the "marker behind his clock". When you look at who arrives at the door, I'm pretty sure that's the doctor from episode 3. He comes with men to bring insane Keiichi to the hospital at the request of the girls.

Having killed his friends Keiichi goes completely insane and can't come back to reality (see the last TIP of Onikakushi-hen). He goes to the phone and kills himself for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Last thing, I think the van was just an error from the driver yet Keiichi freaked out and began to fear everyone.

The BIG thing that this theory can't explain: why the note was cut and why the "syringe" or "marker" disappeared? Also, why was Rena pretty insane when she was young?

Well I had fun writing this, now that I look at it, it's super long... sorry about that, it's just that I really like this show.
Please tell me what you think about this...

So far Sindas's scenario is pretty plausible. It explains how benevolent intent is severely misinterpreted by Keiichi as malevolent.

When Sindas asked the
"The BIG thing that this theory can't explain: why the note was cut and why the "syringe" or "marker" disappeared"
"
If you read Imaginary_num6er's post from:
(http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=121 )

Look at the second and last spoiler tab below.

Originally Posted by Imaginary_num6er

Ok, I've been surfing the net and relized once again, that animesuki forums is the only serious place for series discussion. (That other place that starts with a 4 was a mistake.)


First of all, there are a few assumptions one needs to make before I give my asssumptions about the entire case in ep04. Remember, EVERY SCENE in the anime has a reason to it. Obviously, there are tons of Japanese websites dedictaed to this stuff.

Spoiler for Assumptions:

Assumptions:

• The true culprit is not the "Oyashiro-sama"
• Assume, that the suspect is not one of the members of the club.
• Assume what Keiichi expereinced was real, and not something of an intrinsic mental disorder

With that said, lets go look at some of the clues we have.

Spoiler for The entire page what Keiichi wrote (from ep03):

私、前原圭一は命を狙われています
なぜ、誰に、命を狙われているのかはわかりません。
ただひとつ判る事は、オヤシロさまの祟りと関係があるということです。
レナと魅音は犯人の一味。
他にも大人が４～５人以上。白いワゴン車を所有。
バラバラ殺人の被害者をもう一度よく調べてください。生きています。
富竹さんの死は未知の薬物によるもの。
証拠の注射器はこれです。
どうしてこんなことになったのか、私にはわかりません。
これをあなたが読んだなら、その時、私は死んでいるでしょう。 。
これを読んだあなた。どうか真相を暴いてください。それだけが私の望みです。

前原圭一

(Tled)
I, Maebara Keiichi, am in danger of being killed.
Why, and who, wants my life, I do not know.
The one thing I do know is that it has something to do with the Oyashiro-sama's curse. Rena and Mion were part of the criminal ring. Also, four to five or more adults own a white van.
Look at the victims of the dismembered killings once more. [They/he/she] is/are alive. Tomitake-san's death is due to an unknown drug. This is the syringe as evidence.
How things became like this, I do not know.
If you are reading this, by that time I would be already dead.
To whomever reading this, please uncover the truth.

Maebara Keiichi

Spoiler for Question: Who could have taken the note paper?:

Possible suspects:

• Keiichi's parents: They could have searched his room before or after the killing. (To have it be before, you have to assume what he wrote the full text before.)
• The "director" and others: Definatly possible since they didn't go after Keiichi despite owning a van and having 4-5 people. Probably during the time Keiichi ran, they searched the house.
• Rena or Mion: Assuming that one of them was alive, and was able to see Keiichi hiding the memo and syringe in the clock.
• Some 3rd person: In ep03, the window on the first floor and the 2nd were both open despite K1 closing them before. Assuming that someone hid into the house while he was not looking, they could most-certainly see where he hid the note later on. If the syringe was indeed something that's non-lethal like a tranquilizer, the 3rd person could have killed Mion and Rena during Keiichi's sleep, and make him think that it was he, who killed them.

Now, the fact that the suspect didn't take the entire paper and took only certain parts further limits the possibilites, since the suspect wanted to leave some parts of the message, and others out:

• "Look at the victims of the dismembered killings once more": Obviously, the person that got lynched would not be alive, but this also includes vicimts of the subsequent killings and the such. Therefore, the culprit is someone invovled in the previous dissaperences/killings.
• "This is the syringe as evidence": Now, any culprit would not want the syringe to be left as evidence to avoid it from being a simple Oyashiro-sama's curse case, but the main question is: Who could have get the syringe in the first place?

Considering these two facts, and assuming that it is none of the club members, there is only a few people who could do this:

• The Director and his men: reasons as before.
• Takano-san: Although she dissapered in ep02, if she was indeed alive after her dissaperence, it would make her a very potential suspect or an accomplice. In ep03, Keiichi discovers that Takano-san was a nurse working at the same hospital where the doctor who gave the flu shot worked at. Also, since she was near Tomitake-san before he died, she could also be responcible of his death.

Spoiler for Question: What was inside the syringe?:

There are generally two theories, one of which it contained some kind of psychiatric drug/poision, while the other is that it contained something else. Assuming Mion didn't intend to kill Keiichi, it would have to be the latter.

As for the possibilites, it was either a tranquilizer or depressant. There a a number of reason why Mion would not necessarly intend to kill Keiichi.
1. The Ohagi incident:
The needle was contained in the nice-looking Ohagi, compared to the others. If you think about the types of games Mion and others played at the club, its hard to think that the intended clue would be in the nice-looking one. Also, in ep04, Mion was suprised about what Keiichi said about the Ohagi. This is probably because the needle was not really intentional.
2. Whispering during K1's sleep in ep02:
Mion and Rena were talking about a dissaperence after the Watanagshi Festival, but didn't talk anything about Tomitake-san's death. Wouldn't it be weird if Rena and Mion were the same criminal ring as the "director", to not be informed of the details beforehand?
3. Keiichi's Mental state:
At ep03, Keiichi recieves a "flu shot" by a doctor. Now, usually in Japan, they don't give "flue shots" to help get over a cold. Therefore, if the shot contained some kind of psychiatric drug, it would explain why Mion and Rena had a huge difference in what they said in the "Higurashi mode" (hallucination) and in normal mode. Mion and Rena probably were very scared, and by the help of a doctor, they were able to get a syringe that was suppose to be a depressent or tranquilizer (ie. Rena's previous medical conditions). Now, despite their intentions, the syringe might contain something different though.

Spoiler for Other Mysteries::

-Keiichi's death: The first mystery is that he called Ooishi-san on the public line when he could have used the free emergency line on the public phone? In addition, the line seemed to have ended due to the lack of coins, and Keiichi knew Ooishi-san's phone number and remebered to bring enough coins despite being pursued. Why? The second mystery is how Keiichi's killings resemble Rena's behavior in her previous school. Broken windows = Broken walls and shoebox with a bat, suspecion of friends trying to kill him, and Oyashiro-sama being behind them.

-Who is the "director":
At first, one might think the "director" was Oyashiro-sama himself, but you would see in this scene:

That the person in the labcoat is probably the "director" and also a doctor. Personally, I think the whole incident was a coup by Takano-san and the "director."

To me if you look at the last tab [spoiler=Other Mysteries:]:

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Imaginary_num6er

-The "director" and others: Definatly possible since they didn't go after Keiichi despite owning a van and having 4-5 people. Probably during the time Keiichi ran, they searched the house.

The "director" and others is the most likely possibility. They had access to the house after Keiichi ran away, and before the police arrive at the scene. Malpractice could be a reason for failing to prevent Keiichi’s mental problems, but that seems too run-of-the-mill for a motive.


Assuming that what Keiichi wrote was true and not based on delusions. I speculate that the director has the most to gain from tearing out the following lines of the note.


“Look at the victims of the dismembered killings once more. [They/he/she] is/are alive. Tomitake-san's death is due to an unknown drug. This is the syringe as evidence.”


This leaves the option that they are connected to the killings, Tomitake, and syringe (or might just be a plain marker). If somebody shows up at a crime scene with his co-worker, he has witnesses that can vouch him and each other. So they would have an alibi. However, it is suspicious that are gone before the police arrive, who also seems not to realize that they were at the house.

So why did the director and his men disappear?

Finally, Takano-san is a dark horse suspect to me, we haven't seen much from her. But her being a nurse is a tantalizing fact.

[SvenTheSweeper]

I don’t if this is important, but so far for Episodes 1-4, I haven’t seen an explanation for why Keiichi and his parents moved to Hinamizawa.

Which leads to the question of- Was it random or is there a reason for moving? Maybe this question won’t matter when the show is over, but I am wondering if there’s a connection with Keiichi or his family to the place.

Moving to a new town and having your life go down the toilet like his did can’t be totally random, can it?

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by SvenTheSweeper

I don’t if this is important, but so far for Episodes 1-4, I haven’t seen an explanation for why Keiichi and his parents moved to Hinamizawa.

Which leads to the question of- Was it random or is there a reason for moving? Maybe this question won’t matter when the show is over, but I am wondering if there’s a connection with Keiichi or his family to the place.

Moving to a new town and having your life go down the toilet like his did can’t be totally random, can it?

There's a reason, but you won't get the details until Tsumihoroboshi (hopefully).

For now, all you need to know is that Keiichi's father is an artist who moved with his family from the urban city to the countryside as a change of pace in lifestyle.