Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[Kid Ying]

It's just a matter of POV, after all. Nobody said that she could have paid for her crimes, well, she did have some sins in her past, but there's anyone in CG that hasn't(okay, i know there's some people)? We all wanted to see Lelouch happy in the end and he was a big son of a bitch most of the time...

Viletta was fighting(well... cheering) with the BK against Lelouch for a better future and she matured enough in the series to know that the world is not as black and white as she did think it was. Her end just seem unfair because a lot of people in the series didn't got what they wanted, hehe.

Well i think she, Shirley, Kallen, Lelouch and all the gang should have gained a nice ending. There's certainly a lot of people that deserved that more than Viletta, but it's not like she didn't deserved at all.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

It's just a matter of POV, after all. Nobody said that she could have paid for her crimes, well, she did have some sins in her past, but there's anyone in CG that hasn't(except for Milly, Rivals and Shirley)? We all wanted to see Lelouch happy in the end and he was a big son of a bitch most of the time...

Viletta was fighting(well... cheering) with the BK against Lelouch for a better future and she matured enough in the series to know that the world is not as black and white as she did think it was. Her end just seem unfair because a lot of people in the series didn't got what they wanted, hehe.

Well i think she, Shirley, Kallen, Lelouch and all the gang should have a nice ending. There's certainly a lot of people that deserved that more than Viletta, but it's not like she didn't deserved at all.

Most of the time huh? Well, the way you worded it just now, it seems that Lelouch deserved not a happy ending {not as much at least} compared to Viletta, but fans wanted it this for him, because he was Lelouch, the sexy man that could apply hairspray while thinking of how blowing up gates.

Viletta "fought" with BK for a better future? Care to point me when? Because, all i saw, was a chara that twisted truths, to make it seem that Lelouch was the absolute demon, and she was a mere victim of his Geass.

Ah, also, getting to the "default point" everyone should be, is "mature" now? Alright.

[darthfury78]

Since we on the topic of Villetta, I wanted to point out that she is no longer a teacher at Ashford Academy. But rather had stopped by for the fireworks festival. She was just remembering the time that she had spent as a teacher, while working as an undercover intelligence officer. Part of her reward for her information that first led to the capture of Lelouch.

I fould it to be so ironic that almost everyone got a happy ending, while a lot of things got unresolved in the second season. So Lelouch got what he deserved, as part of his plan to make Euphy's name forgotten as the masacure princess. But, I still feel that Lelouch could have atone for his sins by doing good deeds as Emperor of Britannia instead of turning the world against him, which was a complete waste of good storytelling. And it had ended way too quickly because Lelouch took the easy way out instead of facing his fears and consequences head on.

[Kid Ying]

Hum... Lelouch was using her emotions for personal gain in most of R2 and he geassed her... After that, i can't see how she would not think he was a bastard.

And everyone in Britannia was teached that way, that they are the superior race. It's common sense here that we are all equals, but in the world she grown up to, it's the opposite. I think it's very nice that she did learn that things are not like that in her own way. If you want to blame anyone, blame Britannia.

[darthfury78]

Can we please avoid the fighting before the moderators decides to close this trend down? It's bad enough that the Romance Trend was shut down. Let's not carry those problems over to this trend.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

Hum... Lelouch was using her emotions for personal gain in most of R2 and he geassed her... After that, i can't see how she would not think he was a bastard.

And everyone in Britannia was teached that way, that they are superior than the others. It's common sense here that we are all equals, but in the world she grown up to, it's the opposite. I think it's very nice that she did learn that things are not like that in her own way. If you want to blame anyone, blame Britannia.

You obviously forgot, what Viletta was ready to do, in Stage 2, and how she participated in the whole Shirley-Zero fiasco, but sure, trivial things. I mean, all it takes is to find the demon-master, and everything else, is forgotten. 8D

Generalizing again? Hum, your argument fails, Euphie got a "nice teaching" but she had something that every chara has. Common logic and heart. Oh wait, not everyone from Britannia had heart, i guess i got my answer.
Seriously, the whole "i was raised that way" does not work, unless Viletta and everyone else, were living under a rock for like 20+ years and did not know, things as valuing innocent people's lives.
So yep, it is not "teach"-anything, it is character quality.

p.s what is with the disliking a character? we are courteous, we do not break any guideline, mods are not illogical persons, they will not close down a thread, just because we happen to dislike Viletta, jesus.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by darthfury78

But, I still feel that Lelouch could have atone for his sins by doing good deeds as Emperor of Britannia instead of turning the world against him

Too cliché, not enough drama

j/k

Since we on the topic of Villetta, I wanted to point out that she is no longer a teacher at Ashford Academy. But rather had stopped by for the fireworks festival. She was just remembering the time that she had spent as a teacher, while working as an undercover intelligence officer. Part of her reward for her information that first led to the capture of Lelouch.

Is it from the translation of the PD? If so, thanks for the infos.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

You obviously forgot, what Viletta was ready to do, in Stage 2, and how she participated in the whole Shirley-Zero fiasco, but sure, trivial things. I mean, all it takes is to find the demon-master, and everything else, is forgotten. 8D

Generalizing again? Hum, your argument fails, Euphie got a "nice teaching" but she had something that every chara has. Common logic and heart. Oh wait, not everyone from Britannia had heart, i guess i got my answer.
Seriously, the whole "i was raised that way" does not work, unless Viletta and everyone else, were living under a rock for like 20+ years and did not know, things as valuing innocent people's lives.
So yep, it is not "teach"-anything, it is character quality.

p.s what is with the disliking a character? we are courteous, we do not break any guideline, mods are not illogical persons, they will not close down a thread, just because we happen to dislike Viletta, jesus.

There's a couple of characters that aren't like that, but we know that it's not that way for the majority of the people, otherwise, the japanese would not be discriminated, Inc.

And no, i didn't forget, like i said, she was certainly on the bad guys at first, i can even say that she was a BIAATCH back then, i just think she got a huge development as a person after all that.

And, Darthfury, i'm just discussing with Incorrupts. I mean, the board is for... Discuss, right? We're not fighting. I can't even fight with someone as cute as incorrupts, hehe.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

There's a couple of characters that aren't like that, but we know that it's not that way for the majority of the people, otherwise, the japanese would not be discriminated, Inc.

And no, i didn't forget, like i said, she was certainly on the bad guys at first, i can even say that she was a BIAATCH back then, i just think she got a huge development as a person after all that.

And, Darthfury, i'm just discussing with Incorrupts. I mean, the board is for... Discuss, right? We're not fighting. I can't even fight with someone as cute as incorrupts, hehe.

The fact that the Japanese were discriminated, does not mean it is right, you know.

Ah, HUGE development? I am sorry, but i am gonna have to lol a bit here, she was a very secondary character, main charas got shafted pretty much, and you saying that Viletta got huge development? 8D
All she did, was falling in love with the "wrong" according to her guy, during weird circumstances. That thing, "forced" her, to overlook a few things, but her selfish outlook, did remain.

Ahhh, thanks i suppose? Though, if you want to fight me, you are free to do so, i will just kick your ass back, just so you know. |DD {srsly, apparently, debate = fighting lately, so yeah, do not mind it. 8D}

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

There's a couple of characters that aren't like that, but we know that it's not that way for the majority of the people, otherwise, the japanese would not be discriminated, Inc.

And no, i didn't forget, like i said, she was certainly on the bad guys at first, i can even say that she was a BIAATCH back then, i just think she got a huge development as a person after all that.

And, Darthfury, i'm just discussing with Incorrupts. I mean, the board is for... Discuss, right? We're not fighting. I can't even fight with someone as cute as incorrupts, hehe.

Thing is, Villetta was pretty much a "BIAATCH" for most of the series. She willfully dragged Shirley into her crusade to get into the nobility. Throughout most of the series she was just looking out for herself and that was it. Hell, her "change of heart" did not really occur until Lelouch abolished the aristocracy and made her title meaningless. And then she goes running back to Ougi. She first jumped to Jeremiah when she thought he could get rid of Lelouch but then tried to cover her ass with Rolo, then when that did not work she wanted to turn in Ougi. I dunno, I just do not find her likable for me, that doesn't mean you can't like her but frankly she barely changed in my books.

[darthfury78]

The Emperor Lelouch arc could have been quite an interesting chapter which could have made the story very interesting. For one thing, I don't think that he would have abolished the aristocracy because he could have easily geass everyone to serve him in a manner that might have made Britannia a better place, and restored the Ashfords Noble Status as his way of repaying them for taking care of him and Nunnally. The power of the geass could have transformed Britannia into a Constitutional Monarchy, just like Great Britain. Thus, Lelouch could have proved to the UFN that he was of no threat to them. Once that was out of the way, he could have made changes to the role of Emperor wasn't a position for life, but could have had term limits of 5 years, and create a process for the running candidates to run for the position. This could have been viewed favorly by all Britannian citizens.

[yvj]

Well if they made another "manga AU" I wouldn't mind seeing one about Emperor Lelolouch's reign.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Thing is, Villetta was pretty much a "BIAATCH" for most of the series. She willfully dragged Shirley into her crusade to get into the nobility. Throughout most of the series she was just looking out for herself and that was it. Hell, her "change of heart" did not really occur until Lelouch abolished the aristocracy and made her title meaningless. And then she goes running back to Ougi. She first jumped to Jeremiah when she thought he could get rid of Lelouch but then tried to cover her ass with Rolo, then when that did not work she wanted to turn in Ougi. I dunno, I just do not find her likable for me, that doesn't mean you can't like her but frankly she barely changed in my books.

Yeah, uh, to be fair, she had no idea that the girl she picked was in love with Lelouch, and she had no idea that the boy she was investigating would turn out to be the big bad Britannia's facing. Frankly, Viletta was doing her job; that doesn't make her any more of a bitch than it would a cop doing his job. Second of all, I'm pretty sure her "change of heart" started occurring when she had conflicting feelings about Ohgi, an occurrence that was only further developed when a friggin' former princess told her its okay to not worry about peerage. She had sided with Ohgi long before Lelouch abolished the aristocracy.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

The fact that the Japanese were discriminated, does not mean it is right, you know.

Ah, HUGE development? I am sorry, but i am gonna have to lol a bit here, she was a very secondary character, main charas got shafted pretty much, and you saying that Viletta got huge development? 8D
All she did, was falling in love with the "wrong" according to her guy, during weird circumstances. That thing, "forced" her, to overlook a few things, but her selfish outlook, did remain.

Ahhh, thanks i suppose? Though, if you want to fight me, you are free to do so, i will just kick your ass back, just so you know. |DD {srsly, apparently, debate = fighting lately, so yeah, do not mind it. 8D}

It certainly is not, we all know that, but most of the Britannian society was like that, even the Emperor endorsed this. It's safe to assume that she was a product of the way she lived and people she met, not her fault to became what the everyone there think it's the right way to live.

Hey, not development as a character, as a person, A PERSON. Let me put like that: From a racist son of a bitch, using little girls to get a promotion TO a not racist woman, married with a japanese guy, friend of everyone and (almost) fighting for a better future and stuff. C'mon, it's a HUUUUGE development and improvement, hehe.

And you certainly would kick my ass. I think i would give up after a couple of posts, hehe.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Yeah, uh, to be fair, she had no idea that the girl she picked was in love with Lelouch, and she had no idea that the boy she was investigating would turn out to be the big bad Britannia's facing. Frankly, Viletta was doing her job; that doesn't make her any more of a bitch than it would a cop doing his job. Second of all, I'm pretty sure her "change of heart" started occurring when she had conflicting feelings about Ohgi, an occurrence that was only further developed when a friggin' former princess told her its okay to not worry about peerage. She had sided with Ohgi long before Lelouch abolished the aristocracy.

The problem is, that she was talking all about nobility and how she will hell, no way in hell will end up like Jeremiah, she will attain his fame instead and so on. Her nice inner monologue in Stage 13 is what triggers the "ehhh" mostly. She did not use as a "cop" Shirley, since she did drag her into that mess. Cops, do not drag into messes people, and follow them secretly to get their "fame"-hob done, using a civilian in a dangerous place.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

The problem is, that she was talking all about nobility and how she will hell, no way in hell will end up like Jeremiah, she will attain his fame instead and so on. Her nice inner monologue in Stage 13 is what triggers the "ehhh" mostly. She did not use as a "cop" Shirley, since she did drag her into that mess. Cops, do not drag into messes people, and follow them secretly to get their "fame"-hob done, using a civilian in a dangerous place.

Well, not honorable cops anyway. Trust me, I've heard some horror stories about crooked cops using people for drug busts and such. I remember one where a 19(?) year old girl was killed as a result.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

The problem is, that she was talking all about nobility and how she will hell, no way in hell will end up like Jeremiah, she will attain his fame instead and so on. Her nice inner monologue in Stage 13 is what triggers the "ehhh" mostly. She did not use as a "cop" Shirley, since she did drag her into that mess. Cops, do not drag into messes people, and follow them secretly to get their "fame"-hob done, using a civilian in a dangerous place.

You'd be surprised how often cops "use" civilians in such a manner. Cops stake out people that they think will give them a lead all the time; I would know, I have been one such person. And yeah, she didn't want to end up like Jeremiah; shit, who would? Nobody likes their entire career being torn out from under their feet. You think she wanted to stop Lelouch from the goodness of her heart? Real world doesn't work that way, people rarely do something so dangerous without some form of motivation. Viletta's no different than most people in the world.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Kid Ying

It certainly is not, we all know that, but most of the Britannian society was like that, even the Emperor endorsed this. It's safe to assume that she was a product of the way she lived and people she met, not her fault to became what the everyone there think it's the right way to live.

Hey, not development as a character, as a person, A PERSON. Let me put like that: From a racist son of a bitch, using little girls to get a promotion TO a not racist woman, married with a japanese guy, friend of everyone and (almost) fighting for a better future and stuff. C'mon, it's a HUUUUGE development and improvement, hehe.

And you certainly would kick my ass. I think i would give up after a couple of posts, hehe.

If there was brainwashing involved, i would believe that one. But people, like Euphie, even Cecile, were not like this, leading us to believe, that it is up to individual, not to a generalized-dogma.

Again, when did she fight for the better future?
Also, she married a Japanese guy, and? Viletta was shown, from a definitely not honorable person, jumping to..a not honorable person. It is exactly what Tony said, she did use Shirley, Jeremiah, Rolo and then ended up with Ougi. {i am not gonna say she did not love him, but she was willing to throw it away at some point}
The "excuse" she gets, is her unborn baby and everyone went "poor mamaaa! let her married" <--this. Only this. 8D

good thing you figured it on your own then. |D

[snowdevil_crow]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

think about the OOBK's betrayal of lelouch
taken aside from the fact that its lelouch they are betraying
and you are left with a bunch of people who just learned (from several differnet sources) that their leader is
a)a britannian prince
b)responsible for several massacares (including one of their own people)
c)possesing a power that can brainwash people (and no moral problems about using it on his own sister)
d)partly to blame for the tragedy that just happened in the tokyo area by hiding detals from them

they may have handled it poorly (not hearing him out, using kallen as bait, using him as an excuse to get japan free)
but they actually have perfectly good REASONS for turning on lelouch at that point
and all of these reasons are, and this is the key here, ENTIRELY LELOUCH'S DOING

but no one (myself included i admit) cared about that at the time, and many STILL dont care
becouse its lelouch

Yeah. *sigh*

Look, Ougi and Villetta weren't exactly angels, but they did try to do their best to follow what they thought was right. I'm kind of sick of all the hate they recieve, which mostly seems to boil down to "they betrayed Lelouch".

Look, Lelouch treated Villetta pretty horribly, mocking her and lording it over her head that she was helpless against him. I'd say she's pretty justified in at least disliking him. And he did use Ougi as a tool, when Ougi had decided to put his trust in him despite all misgivings. And Lelouch did command those massacres (though the first one was accidental --- they don't know that), so he did, in fact, lie to and betray the Black Knights (to a degree) before they actually sold him out.

As for the question of proof... I remember going over this before, and quite frankly, I don't see how or why they shouldn't have believed Schneizel. Especially given everything that had just happened and how Lelouch had been acting recently (faltering at the UN thing when Charles appeared on TV, not caring about any of his army... if you rewatch those episodes, you'll see that he actually acts really, really horribly right after Shirley dies. A whiny brat [with rather good reason, I'd say, but that doesn't quite excuse it]).

:/

As for the discrimination question, I don't think the point is that discrimination was good, it was just that in that sort of society she was simply an average person. And she did fight with and reconsider her racism later, and also her ambition which I would think is a good thing.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Yeah, uh, to be fair, she had no idea that the girl she picked was in love with Lelouch, and she had no idea that the boy she was investigating would turn out to be the big bad Britannia's facing. Frankly, Viletta was doing her job; that doesn't make her any more of a bitch than it would a cop doing his job. Second of all, I'm pretty sure her "change of heart" started occurring when she had conflicting feelings about Ohgi, an occurrence that was only further developed when a friggin' former princess told her its okay to not worry about peerage. She had sided with Ohgi long before Lelouch abolished the aristocracy.

And she let that girl run around in a war zone while secretly tailing her to see what she found? I suppose war zone is not exactly the best term but she was content to let Shirley run around in an area that the Britannian military was conducting operations and was fighting the Black Knights and well the JLF too I suppose.

She shot ougi at the end of season one, then in season two she spent her time trying to cling onto her title. Hell if she was really just about doing her job, she should have attempted to report that Lelouch regained his memores. She had ample opportunities, and it is not like she had no way of sending a message when Lelouch and Rolo were too busy with other stuff. But again she did nothing because she was trying to cling onto her title and prestige.