Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 10 Discussion

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam

I disagree. It's pretty ominous when the Federation lacks the motivation to at least send some token reinforcements to defeat their long-standing enemy.

Nope, it's just that the UE weren't fighting hard enough. Is it very difficult to ignore the spamming gunfire, when they were able to do it for the earlier episodes? Though if Desil was commanding, controlling those suits, he might have taken the battle lightly..

Maybe Decil forgot to set his podbots/UEbots to " very hard " dificulty?

For the first major fight in AGE i'm pretty dissapointed, the big UE ship didn't really do anything, hell, the UE didn't really do anything major except for the handcannon spamming.

Spallow/Sparrow was pretty nice.

Once again this major fight lacked good animated choreography, which is a huge downer.

Good to see Grodek making up a good strategy.

The parts combination was actually pretty nice, when i read that it changed parts in space i expected something bad, but that entire moment caught me by surprise, really good planning there, too bad some of that didn't go into the actual battle.

Giving it a 6/10, expected more, once again it suffered from bad battle choreography and execution.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

The Federation wasn't in this episode specifically because they had no forces in the area to spare, they couldn't offer help. Nothing hinted that they "didn't care".

And...what is nonsensical about the fighting here? Zalem and Euba distract the UE with a barrage of gun fire so Flit and Woolf can take them out. This isn't bad choreography, this is just how the episode was written.

Some people have a very rigid sense of what constitutes good battle choreagraphy, others allow this show a very limited window of opportunity in which it can be allowed to prove itself to them or build cred or however you want to put it. One thing that can't be understated though is that when the battles aren't happening and/or it's just talking and exposition some people clearly just aren't paying any attention. It's literally all about the fights for these people with the possibility of the shipping on the side and everything else quite clearly has no bearing so those moments are kind of the auto-bad to them I would assume. Basically I've always imagined these types of people running through a checklist of does and donts for combat and following it so rigidly and with such a stubborn streak that they fail to make note of the context that the actual events take place in and whether they work in said context. This all goes way back as far as Gundam 00 (at least that's when I first started noticing it), and it doesn't help when you use bullet point form to express yourself either.

In short that else is new.

Spoiler for The Don and stuff:

This character started off really goofy, but ended up becoming pretty awesome and the classic old man that shows the boy pilot the way to becoming a true soldier. At first he looked like some shady gun runner type who only cared about lining his pockets, then he appeared to be some old man engaged in a petty long forgotten conflict that was incapable of seeing the true enemy, then he had his encounter with Flit and the UE and sort of saw the light and it turned out he was just really passionate about protecting and guiding the people of Zalam, but that he was capable of realizing that he needed to put his passion to use for humanity, and then this episode happened where he just went out in a blaze of gar glory while leaving his legacy to Flit in much the same way Bruzar did. That's now two old men that have been a big motivating factor for Flit to continue his fight and I'd be surprised if Emily doesn't finally get the way of the soldier now that she's had that talk with an older woman and seen what Flit's battle means to him.

Just in that sense this was an interesting episode, but I actually felt the fight was well portrayed as a sort of Guerilla style raid and that the duel between the Spallow and the Zedas and finally getting to see Flit beat the only UE machine he hasn't been able to yet was pretty satisfying. Personally I'm okay with a battle not having the worlds absolute most cutting edge animation and choreagraphy (though it couldn't hurt I find it's a bit of an unrealistic expectation) as long as it can convey the spirit of the battle and depict a clear course of combat and a result, which this did fine. Also just seeing the combined forces of the Diva, Zalam and EUBA finally push back the UE gives hope that they can actually win this fight and stop the attacks on the colonies, but I would expect the UE to have at least one more contingency up their sleaves to be revealed when we get closer to Ambat and what looks to be the end of Flits portion of the story.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Vsin

Woolf is Sleggar and Millias is Mirai. Therefore, Woolf is going to die before the end of Flit's arc, and Millias will end up being Grodek's second wife. Calling it now.

Noooo!

Woolf is like the only character in this series I actually like and find amusing. >_<

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by zalem

Noooo!

Woolf is like the only character in this series I actually like and find amusing. >_<

Why are you watching then? I personally don't think I've ever finished a show where I only like 1 out of however many cast members.

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Why are you watching then? I personally don't think I've ever finished a show where I only like 1 out of however many cast members.

Well for one, I hate stopping a series in the middle unless it's REALLY very boring or just bad. AGE isn't anything special, but it's not terrible either. I am still somewhat curious as to what is going to happen.

But you are right in that the enjoyment factor is really turned down due to the fact that I find most of the characters incredibly dull. Unless some amazing characterization happens soon I don't see this as ever being a favorite anime series of mine. Usually all the series I love have characters I love as well. I like Woolf because he is amusing, but even he needs some major work in the character development department. But you never know...I've watched anime where I absolutely HATED the main character and then proceeded to watch that character grow and change and become a favorite of mine (Yoko from Juuni Kokki is a great example). There is always the chance that could happen here (though I don't hate any character in the series....I just don't care about them at all), though I get the feeling it won't...

[felix]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Why are you watching then? I personally don't think I've ever finished a show where I only like 1 out of however many cast members.

I like to think that's very common. IMO a lot of shows have had success just with one super awesome character at the helm. Though the one character being a side character is kind of unlikely, unless there's heavy shipping in the waters. Of course the negative version of hating all but a single character is a whole different story.

[Vena]

I don't know what people expect from this show.

This was a *good* episode.

[felix]

I know what I expect: Yurin VS. Emily "battle" to the death.

[Rising Dragon]

Given how Emily is, I really don't see her acting like a green-eyed monster or the like. She might get upset but I really don't see her flipping out at Flit or Yurin.

[felix]

Don't underestimate puberty as a plot device.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by K-Sama

and it doesn't help when you use bullet point form to express yourself either.

Flip-flop much? This is the same thing Kaito-kid did and you internet dapped the $hit outta him...Thought it would be a change from my normally flavorful renditions to just do it Dragnet style, but if it's unfiltered wicked wordplay you want...I'm on notice...

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

The Federation wasn't in this episode specifically because they had no forces in the area to spare, they couldn't offer help. Nothing hinted that they "didn't care".

The Federation doesn't exist in this show...For all intents and purposes there is no federation...So it's kinda silly to say they wouldn't spare forces for the "showdown battle" when from a thematic standpoint, they don't even exist...But if they do exist (Like the throwaway lines in this show suggest) wouldn't you have to "not care", not to send anyone to fight the Uber scary space destroying UE?

And...what is nonsensical about the fighting here? Zalem and Euba distract the UE with a barrage of gun fire so Flit and Woolf can take them out. This isn't bad choreography, this is just how the episode was written.

Look these are eye of the beholder kind of questions...I've seen every episode of Gundam that exists, if this show has what you consider to be good fight-choreography, I don't know what I can say to dissuade you...If Superior MS's are strangely getting beaten by crap suits (Not realistically or tactically being defeated mind you), retreating when they have the advantage, letting the Gundam just do what it wants on the battlefield with countless times to destroy it...If that's good, wh-wh-wh-what's bad?

[felix]

No need to be provocative wing

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

The Federation doesn't exist in this show...Do you not understand that? For all intents and purposes there is no federation...So it's kinda silly to say they wouldn't spare forces for the "showdown battle" when from a thematic standpoint, they don't even exist...But if they do exist (Like the throwaway lines in this show suggest) wouldn't you have to "not care", not to send anyone to fight the Uber scary space destroying UE?

Politics. Hidden agendas. Etc.

If the federation doesn't exist the Diva wouldn't exist. Thus the federation exists. The stations are much more independent then what we usually consider a federation however. But since they are so far apart that's not an unrealistic state of affairs. They also have no choice but to manage themselvs, feed themselvs and so on, from the looks of things, so unlike something like an earth federation there's very little the federation has to do. Given the lack of an enemy/thread (the UE being more like ghosts in space) and the peace treaty resulting in 100 years of sitting on ones ass, it's no surprise the federation is more or less a federation in name only. At this point anyway.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Look these are eye of the beholder kind of questions...I've seen every episode of Gundam that exists, if this show has what you consider to be good fight-choreography, I don't know what I can say to dissuade you...If Superior MS's are strangely getting beaten by crap suits (Not realistically or tactically being defeated mind you), retreating when they have the advantage, letting the Gundam just do what it wants on the battlefield with countless times to destroy it...If that's good, wh-wh-wh-what's bad?

The Gundam's cockpit opening and the pilot singing some song of peace to defeat them? Probably the UE crying as a result and giving up... Bad enough?

As for AGE, they are fighting, shooting lazers at each other and high speed jousting and slicing pretty much counts as fighting. If you like it or not it doesn't really matter, it's nice when it's really flashy but it has no relevance on the plot.

[-Sho-]

Well , i'll give 2-3 more episodes. I'm not really enjoying this , yup it's childish i know but that's why , i can't bear it.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by felix

If the federation doesn't exist the Diva wouldn't exist. Thus the federation exists. The stations are much more independent then what we usually consider a federation however. But since they are so far apart that's not an unrealistic state of affairs. They also have no choice but to manage themselvs, feed themselvs and so on, from the looks of things, so unlike something like an earth federation there's very little the federation has to do...

Where did you learn this? Did you learn this watching Gundam AGE, what episode? What time-code? What Federation character mentioned this?

Ohhhhh, this is just what you think based on a severe lack of context clues to rationalize the fact the show has given you almost nothing to go on in this area...

Well that's what I'm doing too...

As for AGE, they are fighting, shooting lazers at each other and high speed jousting and slicing pretty much counts as fighting. If you like it or not it doesn't really matter, it's nice when it's really flashy but it has no relevance on the plot.

I'm all for mindless action, but give me good mindless action if that's all your giving me...I'm actually encouraging the show to just start showing it's a$$ and do awesome incredible superficial fighting, but it seems it can't even do that well...

[felix]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Where did you learn this? Did you learn this watching Gundam AGE, what episode? What time-code? What Federation character mentioned this?

Ohhhhh, this is just what you think based on a severe lack of context clues to rationalize the fact the show has given you almost nothing to go on in this area...

Well that's what I'm doing too...

Well it wasn't explicitly mentioned but we do know the Federation created the Diva (hence first two sentences). We also know that Nora was pretty much self sustainable from the little clues at it's design we got, how the centeral beam thing was a greenhouse/lifesupport thing and also how there is/was very little ship traffic. If it wasn't self sustainable there should have been ships flying around it all day, just like trucks go around your average city; yet we really didn't see any of that. The core thing is also pretty damn giagantic. The rest is merely an hypothesis based on that. Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not trying to convince you.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I'm all for mindless action, but give me good mindless action if that's all your giving me...I'm actually encouraging the show to just start showing it's a$$ and do awesome incredible superficial fighting, but it seems it can't even do that well...

Like I we keep telling you it's just not that kind of show. The action is more or less for the plot only. At least up until now. You'll just have to enjoy the "awesome incredible superficial" plot. Personally I enjoy's flint very unatural character when it come so fighting. The way he's all "pull knife and go for the throat, ask questions later" is kind of refreshing when most series just go for the super elite or crybaby motifs; or both. Anyway, any fighting is only as good as it's plot, so I wouldn't get my expectations too high, yet.

[dagr81]

this episode will only make sense or get a better rating when we find out who the UE are.
let be realistic here, if a group is that smart and they can make suites that advance.
they would have no problem killing off a bunch of units with only 2 of of lets say 50 can cause you damage.

UE 1- hey they only have 2 unites that can kill ours, hmm should we just send everything at those 2 unies?
UE 2- nope we will just let them do as they please

also not that Disl(red head kid) was the one that started the fighting between the to factions

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

And...what is nonsensical about the fighting here? Zalem and Euba distract the UE with a barrage of gun fire so Flit and Woolf can take them out. This isn't bad choreography, this is just how the episode was written.

it's the execution that's the problem, to give you some context:

Image James bond being surrounded by lets say, 10 Henchmen, all right?

those 10 henchmen starts shooting at him, and he pulls up his good old walter PKK, he shoots one round, aims at another henchman, shoots another round, and so on. In the end, he manages to kill every single henchman, without moving or pretty much doing anything to evade.

Take the same scenario but have him run for cover, shoot a few rounds, reload, aim, shoot at a random gas canister and struggle, but in the end come out in a somewhat good fashion with a bruise or two.

That's pretty much the reason people are complaining, the fighting in AGE sofar have been lackluster, the settings is there, but the actual execution and choreography in the fights are lacking.

Originally Posted by dagr81

this episode will only make sence or get a better rating when we find out who the UE are.
let be realistic here, if a group is that smart and they can make suites that advance.
they would have no problem killing off a bunch of unites with only 2 of of lets say 50 can cause you damage.

UE 1- hey they only have 2 unites that can kill ours, hmm should we just send everything at those 2 unies?
UE 2- nope we will just let them do as they please

also not that Disl(red head kid) was the one that started the fighting between the to factions

That also annoys me about this show, noone in this show uses logic, at all, like the Genoaces still being useless while the G-exes got it's own DOTS/DODS Rifle offscreen?

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

The Federation DOES EXIST in this series wingdarkness, or have not been watching the same series? They were in episode 5 when they tried to arrest Grodek, they were in the entire first freaking episode, and they're in the next episode and the episode after.

Federation = exist

Originally Posted by Znozzy

it's the execution that's the problem, to give you some context:

Image James bond being surrounded by lets say, 10 Henchmen, all right?

those 10 henchmen starts shooting at him, and he pulls up his good old walter PKK, he shoots one round, aims at another henchman, shoots another round, and so on. In the end, he manages to kill every single henchman, without moving or pretty much doing anything to evade.

That would be pretty lame for a Jamesbond movie, mainly because he's human, and not moving all around would spell death. The Gafran on the other hand, are immune to bullets, and beams for that matter (most of them anyway). As others have said, the UE didn't really need to fly all around the battlefield because they weren't being harmed by the majority of enemies on the field. The G-Exes and Gundam are two units among a battlefield of about, maybe 50 mobile suits all together. The UE probably couldn't keep track of them because all of their attention was drawn to those mook MS who are (compared to them) made of styrofoam. But, hey as wingdarkness said, eye of the beholder right? I see a good fight with every reason for the UE to have been acting the way they should have.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by felix

Well it wasn't explicitly mentioned...

That's the problem...You expect me to take these throwaway lines about why the Fed is doing this or that when the show could give less than a dangit about expediting any of this?

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

The Federation DOES EXIST in this series wingdarkness, or have not been watching the same series? They were in episode 5 when they tried to arrest Grodek, they were in the entire first freaking episode, and they're in the next episode and the episode after.

Federation = exist

If I was an eyeglass wearing anime character, this is the point where I'd press my two fingers to the midpoint of said glasses and adjust them to a flashy bright reflection that the audience witnesses...

Nosferatu...I am not saying that the federation doesn't exist in a literal sense...I am saying that in a story sense they have been given almost nothing in exposition to even take seriously the notion that they are a driving element in the make-up of this show...

So in essence the writers having a character say "They couldn't spare any units", is saying to me that they are trying to cover their a$$ and or distract from the point that they haven't included anything worth a damn in the plot pertaining to the Federation (My own hypothesis is they don't give a $hit because this show is operating on a thinness that can only be found in a Listerine Breath Strip )...Basically, it rings hollow...

So for me, if you're just gonna plow through the inadequacies of this script (that includes so much more than just the Federation part), then atleast budget the action for something that can be judged as great quality...These fights, IMO, are not of a high quality in neither plotting nor execution (Znozzy just perfectly depicted my feelings here)...

I certainly enjoyed a scene here are there, but as a whole it's lacking...But the puzzling thing is that as a kid I would have found most of the battles in AGE not that impressive, so I'm trying to figure out why they are so bent on keeping the action understated yet not giving battles the depth that understated Gundam fights usually incorporate? (More relative realism, or some sort of military tactic, or just profiling the evolution of the pilots skills) It's weird, it's like they won't sellout in either direction...It's like a sitcom on CBS in theory...

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I am not saying that the federation doesn't exist in a literal sense..I am saying that in a story sense they have been given almost nothing in exposition to even take seriously the notion that they are a driving element in the make-up of this show...

Well....that's because they aren't. The Diva crew is pretty much a renegade ship acting on its own accord. They broke off the chain of the Federation. That's why you don't see them as a heavy part of the story.