[Manga] Naruto Chapter 531 Discussion

[Haak]

I actually liked this chapter. It was a little cheesy but it was still pretty cool. Wished Hanzou put up a better fight though...

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

I would say it's like what Alchemist007 said, that the point of it was to show Hanzou is history in the Naruverse more than anything else. Besides, I don't think there's any reason to really ponder on how Ninja came from Samurai. It's quite possible in the naruverse anyways. For instance, we've seen Samurai use chakra swords. Sasuke used something similar and added Raiton to the chakra sword. Samurai are also users of Chakra, so it's quite likely that a lot of core techniques used by Ninja were derived from Samurai. Even irl, there are ninjutsu martial arts that use Samurai arts (Bujinkan Budo), so who'se to say Kishi didn't take that as a sort of inspiration? How the Samurai are related to the Ninja, perhaps the Rikkudo Sennin used to be a Samurai but was the first to discover new ways to use chakra and created ninjutsu as we know it in the Naruverse.

I doubt any of this is important but I'm just throwing it out there to show there's plenty of possibilities that are really irrelevant at this stage.

well, in japanese history the ninja were the anti-samurai. the ninja and the samurai were natural adversaries. ninja didn't come from the samurai, they were a completely different breed so to speak. their beliefs were different, their codes were different too (if the ninja really did have a code). ninja were employed by daimyo to perform tasks that were too "shameful" for the samurai to complete. they basically did anything for a price. they often battled against samurai and that's the reason why they learned kenjutsu to try to match up against the samurai's skill with the katana.

if kishi merely wanted to show that hanzou is "old news", then he should have fought someone that we knew he defeated before. like tsunade perhaps. mifune is basically a new character, someone we know nothing about, except that he rules a samurai village that just appeared out of nowhere. mifune and the samurai feel as if they were just created on a whim, they had no real history, no real significance in the plot and then kishi comes out in this chapter claiming that they might have produced the ninja? irrelevant or not, it still feels like a plot hole and it should be answered at least while mifune and the samurai are still active in this war. if he explained why and how they existed in the first place then maybe the samurai's existence in this story won't feel like something that kishi pulled out of thin air.

[Frenchie]

Oh this chapter got me really engaged, too bad the translation kind of sucked. I always did love kenjtusu and sword techniques, so it's nice to see some more of that. Really interested in how the samurai way of life was slowly abandoned and re-converted to the ninja way of life.

Considering the Rikudo is said to have created chakra, it's plausible that the Samurai didn't have the capability to infuse chakra into their swords until after they were made irrelevant by ninjutsu. Which means the whole chakra infusing thing might have arisen out of a need to balance out the power wielded by ninjas.

Also if the Samurai is an old way of life, then perhaps that's the reason why Tsuchikage said none of the Ninja nations would lay hands on them. Possibly as a tribute to a common past history.

It was kind of sad to see Asuma acknowledge Team Shika and to see their reactions. Hopefully Shikaku had it right and they'll be able to handle it, but it feels like a tragedy of some kind might take place.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

well, in japanese history the ninja were the anti-samurai. the ninja and the samurai were natural adversaries. ninja didn't come from the samurai, they were a completely different breed so to speak. their beliefs were different, their codes were different too (if the ninja really did have a code). ninja were employed by daimyo to perform tasks that were too "shameful" for the samurai to complete. they basically did anything for a price. they often battled against samurai and that's the reason why they learned kenjutsu to try to match up against the samurai's skill with the katana.

The only reason I referred to currently existing martial arts without regard for its history is because at the end of the day, the history of Naruto is vastly different from the real world. Also, it's not too much of a stretch to say that the definition of "Ninjutsu" is different from the real world altho the basis largely remains the same. Afterall, in the Naruverse, the ninja are the ones who act as their country's military rather than the Samurai rather than simply taking on tasks that are considered too shameful for the Lords of the land, altho the mercenary aspect still remains in the ninja villages.

Originally Posted by ronin myael

if kishi merely wanted to show that hanzou is "old news", then he should have fought someone that we knew he defeated before. like tsunade perhaps. mifune is basically a new character, someone we know nothing about, except that he rules a samurai village that just appeared out of nowhere. mifune and the samurai feel as if they were just created on a whim, they had no real history, no real significance in the plot and then kishi comes out in this chapter claiming that they might have produced the ninja? irrelevant or not, it still feels like a plot hole and it should be answered at least while mifune and the samurai are still active in this war. if he explained why and how they existed in the first place then maybe the samurai's existence in this story won't feel like something that kishi pulled out of thin air.

That's a good point tho, and it does feel like Kishi pulled this connection between ninja and samurai out of his @$$, so some answers would be appreciated. My only point is that it is entirely possible in the Naruverse for ninja to come from Samurai, just that the number of possibilities are so many that there's no point to really dwell on it......yet.

[Ulquiorra]

This war should be about answering long standing questions. But in these last couple of fights, Kishimoto has actually created more questions. This seems to be a habit of his. Fine if Naruto is going to continue for another 5 years. But if this is the last major arc before the Naruo vs. Sasuke fight...

Originally Posted by Frenchie

It was kind of sad to see Asuma acknowledge Team Shika and to see their reactions. Hopefully Shikaku had it right and they'll be able to handle it, but it feels like a tragedy of some kind might take place.

That's why I am looking a lot more forward to that fight. It feels like something bad might happen since Kishi has been dragging it out over three chapters. These other fights are filler. Shikamaru could probably solo Asuma at this point. But I just feel there will be a twist and one of the three not named Shikamaru or Ino is goinig to either get badly hurt or die.

Choji might be the only kid Kishi could be allowed to kill. In that popularity poll, Choji might not have made the top 40. Even yaoi fans pair Shikamaru with Neji or Kiba. Do it Kishi! make Choji a hero! Give this war its first major causality!

[Kallen4life]

by far worst war chapter so far for me, snooze-o-rama .. looking forward to Asuma now


but yes - poll saved it, let's talk about the poll ! .. Itachi-kun is still loved so much, weeee, 5-th place .. Sakura dead last and tied with Sai lol .. nice for Dei-Dei & Minato .. too bad no Tobidara

[Bombo]

/Respect Mifune
/Bow

[Fran~]

Kishi must did a Samurai manga not a ninja one!...

Mifune was everything i thought about samurais in Narutoverse.

That panel when Mifune slashed Hanzou was beautiful... not the art (kishi isn't Oh! Great), but the concept of the Samurai's creed against a rotten Ninja....

All Hail Mifune

PS: You're thinking too much about these kind of mangas...

[Kotengu]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

if kishi merely wanted to show that hanzou is "old news", then he should have fought someone that we knew he defeated before. like tsunade perhaps. mifune is basically a new character, someone we know nothing about, except that he rules a samurai village that just appeared out of nowhere. mifune and the samurai feel as if they were just created on a whim, they had no real history, no real significance in the plot and then kishi comes out in this chapter claiming that they might have produced the ninja? irrelevant or not, it still feels like a plot hole

You hit the nail on the head brudda. This is the M.O. that Kishi has been using since the timeskip. It's become way more pronounced now during the war arc because of all the new characters he's introduced. Character battles don't Matter without context!

Dispite the alarming increase of plot holes and halfheartedly addressed story devices, this manga still has me. Tho the only things that matter for me now are: Itachi, how Madara can even be hit (much less defeated), and how Naruto is gonna beat Sasuke even thou he hasn't learned anything to let him deal with Sharingan. I was interested in Kabuto(maru) until he rezzed a bunch of no name 'Bloodline' scrubs, and people who's DNA he had no reason to have.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kotengu

You hit the nail on the head brudda. This is the M.O. that Kishi has been using since the timeskip. It's become way more pronounced now during the war arc because of all the new characters he's introduced. Character battles don't Matter without context!

Dispite the alarming increase of plot holes and halfheartedly addressed story devices, this manga still has me. Tho the only things that matter for me now are: Itachi, how Madara can even be hit (much less defeated), and how Naruto is gonna beat Sasuke even thou he hasn't learned anything to let him deal with Sharingan. I was interested in Kabuto(maru) until he rezzed a bunch of no name 'Bloodline' scrubs, and people who's DNA he had no reason to have.

I have to agree with you here. I am wondering how Naruto will beat Sasuke and how he'll deal with the Sharingan (particularly when the Sharingan is the perfect tool for controlling the Kyuubi from the looks of it). But to be fair, we already know how Madara can be hit. Minato already showed that to us during the recent flashback with Kushina. The right thing to ask would be: how will Naruto (or whoever ends up fighting him) deal with it? He doesn't have the same teleportation technique as his father after all.

And yes, Kabuto's a troll

[Fran~]

Look... This war will be in the pages of the manga for months, so, i think that if you want so badly to read something relevant, just go and read another one, because i can smell that nothing relevant will be told in a few months at least. We have a lot of incoming fights yet before to reach the point for Naruto, Bee, Sasuke, Madara...

I have no doubt that the zomby army will not be too much hard to deal and that include Itachi, Pain, etc.


Naruto's counter to sharingan is Itachi's crow... you read it here first. Naruto doesn't have teleportation techniques but he has sennin mode, kyuubi's chakra and now, Bee's training. Naruto has big guns now.... and how to forget THAT jutsu.

[Shiryuu]

I find it funny that Hanzo always wears a mask, even in his jammies.

[Fran~]

The first time i saw a Rain Ninja and their masks i lol'ed ... i found them so dumb

[Kyero Fox]

Samurai > ninja

/facts

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Samurai > ninja

/facts

i second this.

[Cub-Sama]

Boring chapter, I have no care for Mifune but I had some interest in Hanzou until now, this war is really boring since the bad guys don't seem to be doing anything and it feels just like Bleach's war right now. People who should be stronger are dropping dead like flies.

[Angelmonster]

[QUOTE=Cub-Sama;3525047]Boring chapter, I have no care for Mifune but I had some interest in Hanzou until now, this war is really boring since the bad guys don't seem to be doing anything and it feels just like Bleach's war right now. People who should be stronger are dropping dead like flies.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! Why are all of these "amazing" Ninjas droppign so quickly without any harm done to the good guys? I mean come on!

Watch, Pain basically killed everyone in Konoha and he will be defeated by some dumb Ninja we haven't seen before the chapter Pain comes in.

[Fran~]

Wait a second... you still don't realize that zombie nin <<<<<<<<<<<<< live nin?.
Besides bad fellas are destined to be beaten. What you're saying contradicts the entire genre.

And this war has nothing to do with Bleach... because in Bleach Ichigo was fighting the whole time, he was killed and he was revived. Naruto is in his corner, Sasuke, Madara, Bee, too.

One last thing.... you must connect this war with the plot of Naruto, because the plot in Naruto IS ABOUT PEACE/LOVE AND WAR/HATE. In Bleach's case, we still don't know what is the plot of the d*mn manga.

[Essenar]

I wonder who's next on the list of resurrected people we've never heard about, but are crazy badasses?

Kakashi - "Oh no... Is that..."
Mifune - "It can't be..."
*dust settles and clouds of smoke clear"
"The Hidden Village of Tacos great black plague, Nakirama!"
Kakashi - "He fought the second Hokage at the Valley of End!"
*Next chapter, Chouji and Konohamaru kill him*

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Fran~

And this war has nothing to do with Bleach...

The comparison to bleach comes from the tournament-like match ups between fighters. Bleach decided to be genre savy and point out the peons don't matter and thus limitted the war to just a few dozen players... Naruto however decided to involve the peons making it more like a war. However, once the named characters step on to the battlefield, things start to look more like bleach did with the all the focus on the major players, practically forgetting the little people on the sides...

Like in this chapter... Mifune shows up with his samurai, but the moment the battle between him and Hanzou gets heated up everyone else just cease to exist... same went on for kakashi and Zabuza and the fight with the ambush forces. Kin and gin aswell, until the very end that is. Its actually one thing i felt was interesting about how One Piece handled their war... there were no long drawn out fights, which some might find disappointing, but by constantly jumping around the battlefield you had the constant idea that a massive battle was going on at all times.