Velvet Kiss

[Key Board]

Yes, it's acceptable for guys to got to stripper parties after a bad break up to cheer themselves up

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

In this manga kissing implieas a whole lot. Hell even the name of the manga is Velvet Kiss. Thats why Kano never did that and never responded that and only started responding (and even kissed him herself once) only later when they got closer.

It certainly wasn't sexual attraction because she would have been all sensitive and moaning since the beginning but she was rather frigid and only after the episodes like children visiting, shopping together etc her sensitive increased. It implies romance rather than sexual attraction.

Frankly this manga is messed up. It pretty much killed development in romance, and in terms of sex scenes it is pretty crappy compared to actual h mangas and it still keeps on pushing these half baked sex scenes until you want to throw up, but now as it turns out the development in non-h part was pretty much meaningless, so sex is pretty much the most that this manga has to offer right now and it seriously sucks at it.

So because it's a manga, I'm supposed to suspend all disbelief and assume some romantic undertone is present? What's not there is not there. Expecting something out of nothing is what leads to disappointment.
It's like seeing a girl turn her head in your direction in a crowd and assuming she's interested in you.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

So because it's a manga, I'm supposed to suspend all disbelief and assume some romantic undertone is present? What's not there is not there. Expecting something out of nothing is what leads to disappointment. It's like seeing a girl turn her head in your direction in a crowd and assuming she's interested in you.

If you cannot suspend your disbelief then you should stop reading manga's, watching animes or soap opera's.

In this case this manga certainly puts a significant empathize towards kissing, if you fail to notice - then its your problem.

And no not a lot women go and sleep into orgies to be whores. One night stand? Yeah possible though that depends how much the woman respects herself, but in this manga this is back to being an orgy whore, and it is not a one night stand. Its quite different and once again kills any romantic development this manga ever had.

[kanon78]

So because it's a manga, I'm supposed to suspend all disbelief and assume some romantic undertone is present? What's not there is not there. Expecting something out of nothing is what leads to disappointment.
It's like seeing a girl turn her head in your direction in a crowd and assuming she's interested in you.

Spoiler for ch24/Harumi Chihiro wtf..?:

To differ in opinions is one thing, but when you (stubbornly) can't/don't want to see the point that Darknemo2000 is trying to get across in several posts in this thread which all contain the same message...it's getting kinda tiring and pretty much annoying.

If you think it's ok for Kano to go screw some faceless punks/going back to being a cheap orgy slut because she was hurt by Nitta (and she was like that all along before she met Nitta) than that's your call.
But to claim that there were no romantic undertones/development between Nitta and Kano the past 23 chapters I can't surpress the thought that we are "apparently" reading a different manga with the same name...
In these past 23 chapters Kano and Nitta grew closer even though they were bound by non/romantic interest at first: Kano (slowly) started to open up more and more to Nitta like Darknemo2000 has stated and explained already countless times. Nitta however never saw or wanted to see these (subtle) changes in Kano's behavior towards him. The guy just kept thinking he's just a boy toy to Kano and if it wasn;t for the debt he'd be free to live his (romantic) life however he wants without being an errand boy enslaved by a debt thanks to his "hostess girlfriend" from ch01.
To spice this peculiar relationship between them up (and have some "romance drama") the mangaka gave Nitta another love interest; Rumi with her innocently sweet demeanor... At first glance the complete opposite of Kano who's presented as a hot, wild and horny tsundere.
That Kano and Nitta where "going to clash" with Nitta falling in love with/seduced by Rumi and Kano being openly neglected (even though she was distancing herself more and more from her lifestyle/cirlce of sexfriends; why else would she have refused in ch15..?) by Nitta was something everyone could see coming "from miles away".
That Kano would be hurt by Nitta if she pieces the puzzle together/was told by someone (in this case it was Nitta himself in ch22) is also no rageworhty surprise. That was all part of the build-up "romance drama" from the past 23 chapters by harumi Chihiro.
So if she went to Yuki or Kou or even another "friend" from her pathetic circle of (sex)friends for some "pity" sex or "replacement for Nitta" it would suck (for me as a KanoxNitta shipper) but still completely reasonable and not crush Kano's character (development).
The big dissapointment thus is Kano running off immediately to an orgy with faceless punks getting sandwiched while Yuki is pimping her out, only because of her "quarrel/fight" with Nitta...
That makes Kano look really bad; turns Kano (back) into a cheap orgy whore/slut whilst vaporizing all the character development she got from the beginning of the manga by the hands of Harumi Chihiro "who's killing the subtly unfolding romance in her own story".
It has nothing to do with someone falling back in "old nasty habits".
Like Darknemo2000 said before it will just make the eventual pairing of NittaxKano feel empty and shallow while Kano goes from being a hot tsundere to a cheap (hentai) slut.
This turn of events in ch24 left readers (like me) who expected something better from the mangaka in disgusted disbelief; because I can see no way how the mangaka is going to make kano still look good together with Nitta after her pointless orgie escapade(s). At the end of ch24 we see her going again with two guys (it could be just a volume cliffhanger, but the damage is already done).

Velvet Kiss was for the past 23 chapters a major improvement of the previous (nice) manga from Harumi Chihiro "Koi wo Suru no ga Shigoto desu ". But one chapter (24) flushed it all down the drain.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by kanon78

Spoiler for ch24/Harumi Chihiro wtf..?:

To differ in opinions is one thing, but when you (stubbornly) can't/don't want to see the point that Darknemo2000 is trying to get across in several posts in this thread which all contain the same message...it's getting kinda tiring and pretty much annoying.

If you think it's ok for Kano to go screw some faceless punks/going back to being a cheap orgy slut because she was hurt by Nitta (and she was like that all along before she met Nitta) than that's your call.
But to claim that there were no romantic undertones/development between Nitta and Kano the past 23 chapters I can't surpress the thought that we are "apparently" reading a different manga with the same name...
In these past 23 chapters Kano and Nitta grew closer even though they were bound by non/romantic interest at first: Kano (slowly) started to open up more and more to Nitta like Darknemo2000 has stated and explained already countless times. Nitta however never saw or wanted to see these (subtle) changes in Kano's behavior towards him. The guy just kept thinking he's just a boy toy to Kano and if it wasn;t for the debt he'd be free to live his (romantic) life however he wants without being an errand boy enslaved by a debt thanks to his "hostess girlfriend" from ch01.
To spice this peculiar relationship between them up (and have some "romance drama") the mangaka gave Nitta another love interest; Rumi with her innocently sweet demeanor... At first glance the complete opposite of Kano who's presented as a hot, wild and horny tsundere.
That Kano and Nitta where "going to clash" with Nitta falling in love with/seduced by Rumi and Kano being openly neglected (even though she was distancing herself more and more from her lifestyle/cirlce of sexfriends; why else would she have refused in ch15..?) by Nitta was something everyone could see coming "from miles away".
That Kano would be hurt by Nitta if she pieces the puzzle together/was told by someone (in this case it was Nitta himself in ch22) is also no rageworhty surprise. That was all part of the build-up "romance drama" from the past 23 chapters by harumi Chihiro.
So if she went to Yuki or Kou or even another "friend" from her pathetic circle of (sex)friends for some "pity" sex or "replacement for Nitta" it would suck (for me as a KanoxNitta shipper) but still completely reasonable and not crush Kano's character (development).
The big dissapointment thus is Kano running off immediately to an orgy with faceless punks getting sandwiched while Yuki is pimping her out, only because of her "quarrel/fight" with Nitta...
That makes Kano look really bad; turns Kano (back) into a cheap orgy whore/slut whilst vaporizing all the character development she got from the beginning of the manga by the hands of Harumi Chihiro "who's killing the subtly unfolding romance in her own story".
It has nothing to do with someone falling back in "old nasty habits".
Like Darknemo2000 said before it will just make the eventual pairing of NittaxKano feel empty and shallow while Kano goes from being a hot tsundere to a cheap (hentai) slut.
This turn of events in ch24 left readers (like me) who expected something better from the mangaka in disgusted disbelief; because I can see no way how the mangaka is going to make kano still look good together with Nitta after her pointless orgie escapade(s). At the end of ch24 we see her going again with two guys (it could be just a volume cliffhanger, but the damage is already done).

Velvet Kiss was for the past 23 chapters a major improvement of the previous (nice) manga from Harumi Chihiro "Koi wo Suru no ga Shigoto desu ". But one chapter (24) flushed it all down the drain.

I don't think it's right for Kano to have rebound sex, but I see there is a reason why she is. Not all bad or "wrong" acts are done on a whim. Feel free to feel digusted at the orgies and how unpure she is. Harumi Chihiro made it clear that Kano is used goods from very early on in the series and she accepted it. However, that does not mean that it was unprovoked.

If you honestly take a kiss and some good sex as not just affection, but love, then I believe that's horribly naive of you. Kano has had a history of orgies. She took a break because she began showing interest in Nitta. However, that affection is not on the same level as love. It never had the time to grow to that intensity.

Yet, you expect Kano to find another man to show the same kind of "love" she felt with Nitta. She never learned to go that far. As "right" as that would be, a lot of people aren't nice or capable enough to do something when they rarely get anything in return.

The entire point is that Nitta prematurely ended Kano's love and sense of love. Expecting her to find another guy and live happily ever after considering the circumstances would be a huge DEM asspull and just as infuriating as the current situation.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by kanon78

Velvet Kiss was for the past 23 chapters a major improvement of the previous (nice) manga from Harumi Chihiro "Koi wo Suru no ga Shigoto desu ". But one chapter (24) flushed it all down the drain.

This is also an interesting point I'd like to address. Despite everyone being outraged at Kano learning nothing from her relationship with Nitta, people seem to have a double standard and completely forget about her deceased true mother.

Whether you believe Kano and Nitta loved each other or not, Kano undoubtedly loved her real mother and she loved her back. However, she died prematurely and look how Kano turned out. Kano does whatever the hell she wants and obviously doesn't give a damn about her family, which includes her real father who is still alive.
Yet, no one reprimanded her for being an ungrateful child who didn't take the right path and continue to show familial love towards her father and stepmother after her real mother's death.

Sex aside, Nitta didn't show Kano any more love than Kano's mother did. If anything this is just a repeat of her childhood trauma where the affection she wants is ended prematurely, so why is she beyond hope now when she didn't do the right thing after her mother's death years ago? Are people just overlooking the way she acts after her mother's death because they didn't see it firsthand like they see her after Nitta's rejection?

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

This is also an interesting point I'd like to address. Despite everyone being outraged at Kano learning nothing from her relationship with Nitta, people seem to have a double standard and completely forget about her deceased true mother.

Whether you believe Kano and Nitta loved each other or not, Kano undoubtedly loved her real mother and she loved her back. However, she died prematurely and look how Kano turned out. Kano does whatever the hell she wants and obviously doesn't give a damn about her family, which includes her real father who is still alive.
Yet, no one reprimanded her for being an ungrateful child who didn't take the right path and continue to show familial love towards her father and stepmother after her real mother's death.

Sex aside, Nitta didn't show Kano any more love than Kano's mother did. If anything this is just a repeat of her childhood trauma where the affection she wants is ended prematurely, so why is she beyond hope now when she didn't do the right thing after her mother's death years ago? Are people just overlooking the way she acts after her mother's death because they didn't see it firsthand like they see her after Nitta's rejection?

Nitta is not her mother, the relationship is totally different, we are talking about the romantic development of learning that the life can be not only orgies and shopping.

She had her fun with kids, she had her fun while shopping for someone else than herself, she had "Goodnight" said for her in a long time. Those are all significant points that shouldnt be flushed in the toilet this easily as it was.

The key of her encounter with Nitta was her opening up to another word as well as developing the new feeling.

Yes it was badly crushed but it is not an imperative to let akk development of 23 chapters go down the pipe just like that. And thats what happened. Everything was turned in zero, just that we wasted 3 volumes on that, and rebuilding from this point would need big effort from author and extending for another 3 volumes or so, which I just do not see happening.

Kano experienced a lot of new things with Nitta which was what made it feel like despite the hurt she would not go back to being a whore. Nitta as a person is one thing, feelings he evoked and the experience she had with him - is another. Just because the person 'responsible' for this hurt you doesn't mean it nullifies the feelings you experienced. We get hurt by our loved ones all the time, to bigger or smaller scale, but it happens but it does not make the feelings you had and experience you shared turn to zero, like it happened in this manga, no matter how hurt you would be.

I can see her trying to fall for someone else, or maybe even a regret filled one night stand etc, but going back to being an orgy whore just wastes everything this manga have built on in feeling department. And without feelings this manga is nothing but a very shitty H manga with half-baked and plain sex scenes.

Anyways, lets agree to disagree because obviously our views are completely and utterly different.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Nitta is not her mother, the relationship is totally different, we are talking about the romantic development of learning that the life can be not only orgies and shopping.

She had her fun with kids, she had her fun while shopping for someone else than herself, she had "Goodnight" said for her in a long time. Those are all significant points that shouldnt be flushed in the toilet this easily as it was.

The key of her encounter with Nitta was her opening up to another word as well as developing the new feeling.

Yes it was badly crushed but it is not an imperative to let akk development of 23 chapters go down the pipe just like that. And thats what happened. Everything was turned in zero, just that we wasted 3 volumes on that, and rebuilding from this point would need big effort from author and extending for another 3 volumes or so, which I just do not see happening.

Kano experienced a lot of new things with Nitta which was what made it feel like despite the hurt she would not go back to being a whore. Nitta as a person is one thing, feelings he evoked and the experience she had with him - is another. Just because the person 'responsible' for this hurt you doesn't mean it nullifies the feelings you experienced. We get hurt by our loved ones all the time, to bigger or smaller scale, but it happens but it does not make the feelings you had and experience you shared turn to zero, like it happened in this manga, no matter how hurt you would be.

I can see her trying to fall for someone else, or maybe even a regret filled one night stand etc, but going back to being an orgy whore just wastes everything this manga have built on in feeling department. And without feelings this manga is nothing but a very shitty H manga with half-baked and plain sex scenes.

Anyways, lets agree to disagree because obviously our views are completely and utterly different.

What bothers me is not that you disapprove of Kano's choice, it's that you're completely disrespecting Kano's mother and her significance to Kano's story with your inconsistent expectations.

There are a few things that her mother did for her that you give credit only to Nitta as a "new experience."
One is saying "good night" to Kano. She replies with "It's been a while since I've heard that." This is something her mother used to do for her. It's an act of compassion that Kano has learned before.
The other is the shopping for other, which more than likely has been done with her late mother as well. Yet, you credit Nitta as if the act is completely new to Kano's world.

Kano's mother gave her the affection she needed, and Kano remembers her. However, with the way she's been living her life, she has disregarded the feelings and experiences she learned through her mother, as you would put it. However, no one seemed to care that she was wasting her life after her real mother died.
Then, when it comes to Nitta anything nice he does is a new experience, as if Kano's mother never existed, and when Kano goes back to the orgies, now Kano's in the wrong for discounting all the experiences she had.

If you wanted to make a big deal about her learning nothing, then where were you at around chapter 8 when we learned she had someone to care for her in the past but still chose to act the way she does now? Do you really think a parent is that insignficant to the character's story?

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

...
I can see her trying to fall for someone else, or maybe even a regret filled one night stand etc, but going back to being an orgy whore just wastes everything this manga have built on in feeling department. And without feelings this manga is nothing but a very shitty H manga with half-baked and plain sex scenes.
...

Looking at it that way, Gunma Kisaragi mangas have deeper plot, and his drawings are 100 times better.

[ttdestroy]

This story is on a really slow burn, until the end of this chapter it didn't seem like it was progressing at all.

Kano's mother is not insignificant its clear she had a major effect on her daughter, however we really don't know anything about the mother so she remains an unknown quantity.

[Flying Dagger]

Read the whole manga including the latest chapters after a friend's recommendation. I am amazed at the story and the art (the artist spend a LOT of effort on Kano).

I feel sorry for Kano.

She was raised in an environment without much love. Her "friends" were never real friends. To her: sex is just another activity to burn time, and something she does with her "friends" because it makes them happy (gives her a sense of significance). I saw her as a lonely human who does not know about love and had very low self confidence.

So in came Nitta: originally a toy, another form an entertainment. She knew that because he was bound by his debt he would not "betray" her - giving her the necessary courage to interact with this stranger. Over time she learns how to love, and starts to develop emotional attachments.

Meanwhile, Nitta has been troubled by this unnatural relationship with Kano. He longed for a regular relationship. By "coincidence" he meet, and fell in love, with a stranger girl on the streets. Nitta is just another poor person who wanted to live a normal life.

So finally one day Nitta could no longer stand being unfaithful to his "primary love interest" (Rumi - I don't think they are officially a couple) (from the latest chapter I feel somewhere in Nitta he cares for Kano). Reminded Kano that their relationship is based on money and tells her that he has trouble doing things with her as if she is his girlfriend... and that completely shattered her fragile heart.

The only thing Kano knows is to go back to her old ways in an attempt to fill the void...



I do not see Kano as a whore, but just someone misguided by her "friends". She has never truly enjoyed the orgy parties. She does it because she want people to keep her company.


Eventually Nitta's dream must end and he will find out the truth of Rumi. His hidden feelings for Kano will eventually surface (*gasp!* Its a trap! Oh no what have I done to Kano!?!?). Kano too, will have to face herself and admit her love for Nitta.

I have faith that eventually the two will begin a genuine relationship towards the conclusion of the manga - might even happen earlier if the author wish the couple to challenge the conspiracy together (quite likely in order to get more Nitta x Kano action going on).

[Key Board]

I STILL don't see how theoretically seeking immediate gratification comfort sex with someone she knows would be acceptable but doing that through an orgy somehow ruins her character development

What do you think rebound sex is? you think either the man or woman is looking for something more other than sex?

it's the same fucking thing.

pun intended


If you want to criticize something, criticize Kano for using blackmail and treating Nitta as a sex toy.

The point of the story is not to condemn promiscuity.

[Somnus]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I STILL don't see how theoretically seeking immediate gratification comfort sex with someone she knows would be acceptable but doing that through an orgy somehow ruins her character development

What do you think rebound sex is? you think either the man or woman is looking for something more other than sex?

it's the same fucking thing.

pun intended


If you want to criticize something, criticize Kano for using blackmail and treating Nitta as a sex toy.

The point of the story is not to condemn promiscuity.

As fun as reading this "wonderful" back and forth between Shadow and Nemo is, I have to side with Key and Shadow, with my reasoning pretty much being this post.

I don't really understand how Nemo can justify a "regret filled one night stand" and not what she's doing now. Again...it's like having two goldfish and somehow convincing yourself one is a whale.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Somnus

As fun as reading this "wonderful" back and forth between Shadow and Nemo is, I have to side with Key and Shadow, with my reasoning pretty much being this post.

I don't really understand how Nemo can justify a "regret filled one night stand" and not what she's doing now. Again...it's like having two goldfish and somehow convincing yourself one is a whale.

Because one night stand is one short emotion. The continious whoring yourself is not an emotion anymore but a lifestyle. She is an orgy whore through and through and I dont think it will change even if they mystically get together, because she doesntw ant to change and goes back to whoring herself whenever problem arises.

And she actually enjoys taking it up in both holes as you can see from the pictures. On aftermath she makes bit sad face but she certainly loves getting fucked by anyone during the sex itself. its not an emiotionless escapism otherwise she would not be making such ecstasy filled faces during it.

So its not Nitta that she enjoyed being with but his cock.

[Shadow5YA]

You make it sound like it's not possible to have another one-night stand after your first one.

I also find it funny how you completely disregard the unhappy expression Kano makes while you use her ecstatic expression as evidence to condemn her. Why does one facial expression not count while another one does?

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

You make it sound like it's not possible to have another one-night stand after your first one.

I also find it funny how you completely disregard the unhappy expression Kano makes while you use her ecstatic expression as evidence to condemn her. Why does one facial expression not count while another one does?

It just shows how easily the sad expression is forgotten during the sex. I am not ignoring it, it is just that she easily forgets her sadness with some cock in her. Looks she looked sad before the sex then gets all orgasmic-drooly and then switches back to sadness, But it makes the sadness kind of plain because any cock can fuck that sadness from her head.

I was a fool when I before thought that she didnt feel much during orgies and thought it more of a social gesture and that sex with Nitta was somewhat special - but the images confirm the opposite, she simply loves fucking, doesnt matter who the partner is. And if she is sad after - well some good fucking will fix that again.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

It just shows how easily the sad expression is forgotten during the sex. I am not ignoring it, it is just that she easily forgets her sadness with some cock in her. Looks she looked sad before the sex then gets all orgasmic-drooly and then switches back to sadness, But it makes the sadness kind of plain because any cock can fuck that sadness from her head.

I was a fool when I before thought that she didnt feel much during orgies and thought it more of a social gesture and that sex with Nitta was somewhat special - but the images confirm the opposite, she simply loves fucking, doesnt matter who the partner is. And if she is sad after - well some good fucking will fix that again.

And this is different from a one-night stand how? The point is to forget your troubles through pleasure. I still don't see how you can sympathize with someone doing regret-filled one night stand but then condemn Kano for doing the same thing.

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

And this is different from a one-night stand how? The point is to forget your troubles through pleasure. I still don't see how you can sympathize with someone doing regret-filled one night stand but then condemn Kano for doing the same thing.

One night stand is one night stand, you do it to forget or escape something painfull, but then next day you actually sit down and think trough.
Orgies for the sake of orgy are what they are, she fucks for fuck sake, its quite simple imo.
Seriously at first I though she went for them for "socializing" but I ain't thinking like that anymore. If nittas get with her he either needs to buy viagra by boxes, or get her some "playtoys" for 24/7 pleasure mode. Otherwise she will do what she loves and we all know what that is.

[Key Board]

Yes, and it's clear that she wanted to escape something painful

Remember that she actually stopped going to the orgy when she thought she was making some progress. Cause and effect is clear.

But if you are dead-set to see anything beyond Kanno went to the orgy because she only needs to fulfill her sex quota, then whatever.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

One night stand is one night stand, you do it to forget or escape something painfull, but then next day you actually sit down and think trough.
Orgies for the sake of orgy are what they are, she fucks for fuck sake, its quite simple imo.
Seriously at first I though she went for them for "socializing" but I ain't thinking like that anymore. If nittas get with her he either needs to buy viagra by boxes, or get her some "playtoys" for 24/7 pleasure mode. Otherwise she will do what she loves and we all know what that is.

Whether a person does it with one other person or many, nothing is stopping them from having sex with other people at another time. You make this assumption that a person having a one-night stand will never have sex again in a long time and sit to reflect on their life while Kano will have sex non-stop, 24/7 and never have any time to think.

People are capable of having sex often, but they aren't capable of doing it 24/7 without resting. Kano can have sex as much as the next person but the sex will end and that's when she'll feel like crap again for losing Nitta. Kano isn't some superhuman sex machine that can get fucked non-stop. Thinking that she is giving her unrealistic standards.