Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Their allegiance is worthless because if they see an opening to stab him in the back and take power, they'll go for it. Just like he killed Saazbaum. Just like Saazbaum tried to murder Asseylum. He can't even complain it's unfair, since betrayal's the basis for his own power.

The Royals' power is important, yes, but the persons holding it aren't. Saazbaum planned to kill Asseylum, and maybe Ray (unless disease got him first), because he had Lemrina on hand. And he had to shortage to men, both common and noble, to follow him. As for Slaine, he has both Asseylum and Lemrina in his hands. It doesn't matter what they want. Even if they don't want to cooperate, if worse comes to worst, he can impregnate them and educate their offspring.

Again: the Knights follow whoever best lets them invade Earth. The mere fact they stayed around Earth was already an act of rebellion against the Royals. And that's true even of a "loyalist" like Crutheo, let alone Saazbaum's faction.

Then why is it that Saazbaum's faction is not the majority and had to do their scheme in secret? If you're saying that the orbital knights have no loyalty and respect to the royals then you'd think Saazbaum's faction would be the majority especially when they have Lemrina but the fact is they had to resort to their schemes instead of just rebelling openly. It sure doesn't match what you're trying to prove.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

Then why is it that Saazbaum's faction is not the majority and had to do their scheme in secret? If you're saying that the orbital knights have no loyalty and respect to the royals then you'd think Saazbaum's faction would be the majority especially when they have Lemrina but the fact is they had to resort to their schemes instead of just rebelling openly. It sure doesn't match what you're trying to prove.

Not that big a secret, considering the number of people clamoring for Asseylum's death at the end of S1.

And think about it: Knights may not be all that attached to the person of Asseylum, but they don't particularly have reasons to submit to Saazbaum, either. So Saazbaum, when openly rebelling, would have to deal with:
- loyalist Orbital Knights like Crutheo
- loyalist Knights from the motherland
- Orbital Knights pretending to join him but waiting for a chance to betray him and better their position (after all, if they're the kind to betray Vers Royals, why not betray him?)
- possibly the same from Mars.

And the problem is, it's not always possible to tell who's what.

What, then, is the rational course of action? Postpone open rebellion as much as he can while building up his power around a nucleus of Knights and common retainers in it for the long haul. Make it so he can face open opposition head on, and backstabbers don't have any interest in betraying him.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Not that big a secret, considering the number of people clamoring for Asseylum's death at the end of S1.

And think about it: Knights may not be all that attached to the person of Asseylum, but they don't particularly have reasons to submit to Saazbaum, either. So Saazbaum, when openly rebelling, would have to deal with:
- loyalist Orbital Knights like Crutheo
- loyalist Knights from the motherland
- Orbital Knights pretending to join him but waiting for a chance to betray him and better their position (after all, if they're the kind to betray Vers Royals, why not betray him?)
- possibly the same from Mars.

And the problem is, it's not always possible to tell who's what.

What, then, is the rational course of action? Postpone open rebellion as much as he can while building up his power around a nucleus of Knights and common retainers in it for the long haul. Make it so he can face open opposition head on, and backstabbers don't have any interest in betraying him.

And the same is true for Slaine. Like I said, the moment his deceit is exposed the orbital knights would turn against him. It don't matter if they're loyalists like Cruhteo and Mazuurek or an opportunist like Barouhcruz.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

And the same is true for Slaine. Like I said, the moment his deceit is exposed the orbital knights would turn against him. It don't matter if they're loyalists like Cruhteo and Mazuurek or an opportunist like Barouhcruz.

It is also in Slaine's interest to hide it for now (maybe), but that doesn't mean it getting out is immediately fatal. It wouldn't have been for Saazbaum either. It's just a toss of the dice he doesn't need right now.

Consider: they're already in open rebellion against the motherland. War is going their way, aside from Inaho's miracles. They have two young Royals in captivity, while Mars has a dying old man.

So, yes, while loyalists will turn, others may not. And how many loyalists are there, really?

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Peace cannot be kept by force.
It can only be achieved by understanding.

[John117xCortana]

And that ain't gonna happen because there will always be those who just want to watch the world burn.

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

And that ain't gonna happen because there will always be those who just want to watch the world burn.

It was the phrase used by Setsuna and Marina at the end of Mobile Suit Gundam 00.
Speaking of Mobile Suit Gundam 00, was the last great anime mecha we had, then it only had weak series.
Recalling that the main genre of code geass, is not mecha If you replace the mecha by war planes and tanks, nwould not affect the progress of the anime.

[VikingDudeship]

I would not be surprised if Slaine is purposefully sending the defiant - desire to conquer Earth - Counts into battle in order to thin their herd so that he can create a "new world" without the conflict between Vers and Earth.

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by VikingDudeship

I would not be surprised if Slaine is purposefully sending the defiant - desire to conquer Earth - Counts into battle in order to thin their herd so that he can create a "new world" without the conflict between Vers and Earth.

That had not occurred, the attempt to conquer the planet earth Slaine, ended in failure when the three counts died, so left a count on the side of Slaine, is Barouhcruz.
Barouhcruz is leaving to defend the moon base, in the episode of tomorrow, if Barouhcruz die Slaine not will have no count on your side.
The other counts have not sworn allegiance. And not joined the cause of Slaine.
How marito said, Slaine is knigt hiding behind the princess.
If they accepted the cause of Slaine, because they think that the princess was in agreement, but without the image of the princess, no one accepted a traitor in charge.

[leelee85]

Originally Posted by VikingDudeship

I would not be surprised if Slaine is purposefully sending the defiant - desire to conquer Earth - Counts into battle in order to thin their herd so that he can create a "new world" without the conflict between Vers and Earth.

So if it is true Klancain is in big trouble.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by VikingDudeship

I would not be surprised if Slaine is purposefully sending the defiant - desire to conquer Earth - Counts into battle in order to thin their herd so that he can create a "new world" without the conflict between Vers and Earth.

He wouldn't have proposed that they fight together, if that was the case.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Hidetoshi Nakata

Peace cannot be kept by force.
It can only be achieved by understanding.

Yes, by understanding that someone with ill intentions can bring you the peace of the grave.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

Yes, by understanding that someone with ill intentions can bring you the peace of the grave.

Say what you will about understanding one another, but force is never a good substitute.

[VikingDudeship]

Originally Posted by Kurohane

He wouldn't have proposed that they fight together, if that was the case.

I am not quite sure about that. The way Slaine communicates with each individual party he interacts with makes it seem like an insider job to take down the Vers empire and create a, quite literal, indefinite cease-fire. I mean, he "figured if anyone could do it (take down the Counts with their Aldnoah Kataphrakts), it would be him (Inaho)."

The speed at which Slaine's character supposedly "morphed" seems too quick to be anything but a mere guise.

I definitely do wonder, though...

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

It makes no sense.
Even if he take down all counts.
Slaine would not take place to create a land of fantasy.
Earthlings never forgave Slaine, Saazbaum and the Martians after the genocide and all the destruction that caused these unfortunate.
When Slaine rekindled guerrra, after the death of Saazbaum, any means of peaceful negotiation went into space.
Slaine will never be accepted by Earthlings, much less the Martians.
Mars has no resources left, the only option is Slaine conquer the land.
If it weaken the firepower of the Martians, he will have not enough forces to attack the earth, and create your fantasy world.
Slaine has already been defeated, even attacking with three counts, without the support of the counts and princessas, Slaine is but only a top in the checkered board.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It is also in Slaine's interest to hide it for now (maybe), but that doesn't mean it getting out is immediately fatal. It wouldn't have been for Saazbaum either. It's just a toss of the dice he doesn't need right now.

Consider: they're already in open rebellion against the motherland. War is going their way, aside from Inaho's miracles. They have two young Royals in captivity, while Mars has a dying old man.

So, yes, while loyalists will turn, others may not. And how many loyalists are there, really?

I'm under the impression that the loyalists numbers far surpasses Saazbaum's clout. At least that's the impression Trillram gave.

[Anh_Minh]

My impression was that Trillram's family on Mars was doomed if the conspiracy got out. It would make sense that Mars would be full of people ready to obey the Emperor.

Among the Orbital Knights, though... They're already all rebels to some degree. Saazbaum had managed to put himself in a position to control the invasion, and the communications with the motherland.

[Guido]

This has been worse than what I expected from Slaine to act. If power accumulates too much whether be one person, entity, and/or faction the end the result is total corruption, and Slaine is just one step away at becoming a potential megalomaniac, Lord of War.

The high brass at the UFE are any decent either sacrificing the Deucalion and its crew to score a decisive victory against the Martians, because where the Deucalion is heading towards for its next destination is preparing the setup for the final stage of the war. Of course, Slaine's making preparations for the last stage before he can achieve his ambition.

Unnecessary loss of life at both sides will ensue, and, I do not feel impressed at all with Asseylum, finally, taking action to prevent Slaine to continue forward; after recovering her mental state and being informed by her estranged sister Lemrina, she amounted to nothing relevant at stopping the war.

Let me see how this Cronkine Cuthreo, son of the late Count Cuthreo, can offer some sort of leverage, though I have the suspicion that Mazuurek will side with this character and put some serious stress against Slaine.