Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Xeiros

I want to know who designs these kataphracts. I'm having a difficult time reconciling that the ones piloting them could possibly also be their creators. Pretty much every knight we've seen has a machine with either a glaring flaw any moron could see in its design or they simply appear to outright lack any understanding of exactly how their "superior" aldnoah machine actually works. Do you think Vlad even knew what water was? When you design a mech to fight on earth you'd think they'd realize how important it was to understand how all of its matter might interact with their technology.

Who designed such wonky machines? You as a viewer have to basically disconnect yourself from the world because it makes no sense. Basically apart from the Tharsis which simply hasn't had its science explained yet pretty much everyone looks to made to be defeated. It's essentially the let's put the shield generator outside the shield logic. Logic for the convenience of the plot. You'd have to be an absolute nitwit to ever think that sort of thinking is a good idea, but that's exactly what you get.

Take this episode's gravity waves knight for example. Do you think he was even aware that his machine was extremely vulnerable to any sort of attack from above? Good thing it moves slower than a dead turtle. How in the world did it get past the design phase? Why would anyone approve a spec like that for production when it has such an obvious design flaw?

Originally Posted by DemiDomo

but how does the gravity tornado guy work in space or even move for that matter.

what about mr.frost? how does work in space?

what about mr.samurai knight? it doesn't look it would work that well in space minus the water issues.

Just give it up, guys. I know how you feel about the ridiculous Martian mechs as I also share your opinions. But it's best not to think about it too much coz, as you said, almost all their weaknesses are created for plot convenience for a certain MC to exploit. That's pretty much the purpose of them. Furthermore, I remember the series' maker kinda said that the Mars mechs are supposed to be Super-Robot-esque villains complete with the over-the-top powers and weaknesses. At this point, a mass produced Zaku or Dom is a better concept compared to these clowns Martian mechs (and it was created back in 1979). So yeah, just give up the logic and common sense or you won't be able to enjoy this show .

[DemiDomo]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Just give it up, guys. I know how you feel about the ridiculous Martian mechs as I also share your opinions. But it's best not think about it too much coz, as you said, almost all their weaknesses are created for plot convenience for a certain MC to exploit. That's pretty much the purpose of them. Furthermore, I remember the series' maker kinda said that the Mars mechs are supposed to be Super-Robot-esque villains complete with the over-the-top powers and weaknesses. At this point, a mass produced Zaku or Dom is a better concept compared to these clowns Martian mechs (and it was created back in 1979). So yeah, just give up the logic and common sense or you won't be able to enjoy this show .

i enjoy it a lot, i just turn my brain off like the other 95% of anime series that has been coming out.

[nooneagain]

Inaho seems to be their war saint, can't do anything without his guidance. This is what people complains usually about, and it'll be nice to see other badasses in earth force. I don't mind it that much really, he's still my fave char. But it'd still want to see some little depth coming from Inaho.

Spoiler for questions:

Originally Posted by DemiDomo

yes that somewhat make sense.

but how does the gravity tornado guy work in space or even move for that matter.

what about mr.frost? how does work in space?

what about mr.samurai knight? it doesn't look it would work that well in space minus the water issues.

hmm maybe he really doesn't fight in space, just in places with gravity? or maybe his kat itself generates gravity idk neither lol
maybe they are designed for fighting in terrain.

[Xeiros]

In essence it is much easier to design an enemy whose sole purpose it is to annihilate the player or MC than it is to create one that is challenging while at the same time very much beatable. Oftentimes the latter of those requirements causes the challenging part to go flying out the window. The creator has to make a weakness, but one too glaring will remove any sort of difficulty there may been been.

When Inaho defeats one, it feels less like he overcame a great challenge and more that the situation was designed so he could win. The trick would have been to not make this quite so obvious. Nearly all of the knights fight alone and most of their machines revolve around a singular weapon gimmick with a blatant flaw or weakness. Their similarity to video game bosses is quite apparent.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by DemiDomo

i enjoy it a lot, i just turn my brain off...

Now that's a proper approach for this series

Originally Posted by Xeiros

When Inaho defeats one, it feels less like he overcame a great challenge and more that the situation was designed so he could win. The trick would have been to not make this quite so obvious. Nearly all of the knights fight alone and most of their machines revolve around a singular weapon gimmick with a blatant flaw or weakness. Their similarity to video game bosses is quite apparent.

That's a bullseye comment right there. Especially considering that these Kats Inaho's been fighting so far have certain 'patterns' and 'rules' in their attacks (aside from the obvious weapon-gimmicks), pretty much like sidescroller or MMORPG bosses.

But let's just accept it as it is. These Kats are just 'dungeon-bosses' for Inaho to clear, and the point of the show is to enjoy watching him dong it .

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Xeiros

In essence it is much easier to design an enemy whose sole purpose it is to annihilate the player or MC than it is to create one that is challenging while at the same time very much beatable. Oftentimes the latter of those requirements causes the challenging part to go flying out the window. The creator has to make a weakness, but one too glaring will remove any sort of difficulty there may been been.

When Inaho defeats one, it feels less like he overcame a great challenge and more that the situation was designed so he could win. The trick would have been to not make this quite so obvious. Nearly all of the knights fight alone and most of their machines revolve around a singular weapon gimmick with a blatant flaw or weakness. Their similarity to video game bosses is quite apparent.

This is a hidden rule for all haxx characters. Their abilities tend to look so powerful which can easily OHKO your party, and as for compensation they bound to have a glaring weakness.

This is why raw power characters tend to be hardest to beat. Yes, they cannot stop time. Yes, they cannot freeze things around them. Yes, they cannot teleport, but this doesn't matter when they have the raw power to plow through everything just like Broly from DBZ.

[DemiDomo]

Originally Posted by noobita

This is a hidden rule for all haxx characters. Their abilities tend to look so powerful which can easily OHKO your party, and as for compensation they bound to have a glaring weakness.

This is why raw power characters tend to be hardest to beat. Yes, they cannot stop time. Yes, they cannot freeze things around them. Yes, they cannot teleport, but this doesn't matter when they have the raw power to plow through everything just like Broly from DBZ.

I think the fist to death mech was the raw power mech.

but getting ran over by battleship yamato was too much for it.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by DemiDomo

I think the fist to death mech was the raw power mech.

but getting ran over by battleship yamato was too much for it.

That's why Inaho cannot solo it because tricks don't work on her.

[Irenesharda]

Inaho and Yuki's relationship seems to be strained since he woke up in that hospital bed. I'm guessing if she was so adamant to get him out of the service that the higher ups transferred her just to not here her pestering anymore, I'd hate to hear how much she argued with her brother. What do you think can help in patching that up?

[DemiDomo]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Inaho and Yuki's relationship seems to be strained since he woke up in that hospital bed. I'm guessing if she was so adamant to get him out of the service that the higher ups transferred her just to not here her pestering anymore, I'd hate to hear how much she argued with her brother. What do you think can help in patching that up?

inaho is a caring brother, eventually it will smooth over. yuki just needs to understand she can't keep babying him.

obviously, it was full blown when he was about to die and on his death bed.

it is the military, if inaho pulls out earth is practically doomed. since he is the sole martian mech killer they have.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Actually you can tell it was kind of opposite in that. It's not that they fear him. They are admiring and astounded that this new Terran count could do single handedly what their armies have been trying to do for months. They are saluting him not out of fear, but out of respect.

It's a bit of both. He got the grunts' respect and admiration. And for that, his enemies among the counts can't afford to move against him openly.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

While I get Yuki's concern for Inaho's wellbeing, the actions they hint at from her seem borderline insane. The only person on the planet who can actually beat one of those enemy units and she wants him out of the military!? Might as well hand her a gun and tell her to shoot every single person on Earth because that's effectively what she's attempting to do. I'm with the top brass, just stick her somewhere out of sight. Her brother is worth more than the rest of their military is.

It's somewhat normal. To everyone else, he may be Earth's only hope, but to her, he's her baby brother.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But Marito figured it all out. He just needed someone to shoot from up high. It's little different from Inaho relying on Inko to shoot Saazbaum. (Except shooting from that far shouldn't be possible, but whatever.)

That is why it bugs me, Marito figured it out and they just had to add Inaho when they didn't need to.
But again, I should remember to keep my expectation low for this show.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Just give it up, guys. I know how you feel about the ridiculous Martian mechs as I also share your opinions. But it's best not to think about it too much coz, as you said, almost all their weaknesses are created for plot convenience for a certain MC to exploit. That's pretty much the purpose of them. Furthermore, I remember the series' maker kinda said that the Mars mechs are supposed to be Super-Robot-esque villains complete with the over-the-top powers and weaknesses. At this point, a mass produced Zaku or Dom is a better concept compared to these clowns Martian mechs (and it was created back in 1979). So yeah, just give up the logic and common sense or you won't be able to enjoy this show .

Martian knights' mech feels like something five years old drew up. They went to the emperor and showed a picture of their drawing with crayon and said "I want a laser for the eye, beam sword, and a rocket punch!".
"oh oh, me emperor, for my machine I want to see the future!"
"for me I want it to fly!"

[DemiDomo]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

That is why it bugs me, Marito figured it out and they just had to add Inaho when they didn't need to.
But again, I should remember to keep my expectation low for this show.
Martian knights' mech feels like something five years old drew up. They went to the emperor and showed a picture of their drawing with crayon and said "I want a laser for the eye, beam sword, and a rocket punch!".
"oh oh, me emperor, for my machine I want to see the future!"
"for me I want it to fly!"

lol i like to picture the emperor just out of his mind tired and needing rest.

just say w.e. go ahead and do it. just to get them to stop bothering him and leave.

[goblehook]

"I guess I have no choice"

wonder what those last words at the end of the episode means o.O

[Ryuga]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

snip

I agree with this. It's unfair to call regular soldiers incompetent, when really, it's Inaho being extremely abnormal. His abilities go far beyond competence. It shouldn't be on soldiers to come up with physics and tactics on the fly, it should be up to their commanders and support team to provide them combat intelligence. Blame it on them instead of the soldiers.

Marito and co did great under the circumstances and came up with the strategy, they just needed someone else to take care of it. And yeah, that doctor must've gotten his qualifications from McDonalds or something 'cause that was pretty suspect.

Doc: Hey pal, here's a drink, you're gonna be just fine.

Marito: Yeah, you're right doc. Thanks!

*cuts to Marito on the battlefield in his Kat, drunkenly singing aLIEz with a bottle of booze in his hand*

[Zantetsuken]

Originally Posted by DemiDomo

yes that somewhat make sense.

but how does the gravity tornado guy work in space or even move for that matter.

what about mr.frost? how does work in space?

what about mr.samurai knight? it doesn't look it would work that well in space minus the water issues.

If they have rockets to move in space, I see no reason why they wouldn't work well in space. Gravity waves will still make people blackout in space and maybe even destroy kats, and entropic field will still freeze people in space.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

At this point, a mass produced Zaku or Dom is a better concept compared to these clowns Martian mechs (and it was created back in 1979). So yeah, just give up the logic and common sense or you won't be able to enjoy this show .

If every Knight had Zaku or Dom, then the earth forces would win in a month. Zaku or Dom would be mediocre that even KG-7 Areion platoon can take it out with their 75mm using conventional tactics. Even the F22 Raptor will be super effective.

Remember, the Knights, the aldnoah drives, are limited, thus number of Kats they can support. Earth would win by sheer numbers alone.

Originally Posted by Xeiros

I want to know who designs these kataphracts. I'm having a difficult time reconciling that the ones piloting them could possibly also be their creators. Pretty much every knight we've seen has a machine with either a glaring flaw any moron could see in its design or they simply appear to outright lack any understanding of exactly how their "superior" aldnoah machine actually works. Do you think Vlad even knew what water was? When you design a mech to fight on earth you'd think they'd realize how important it was to understand how all of its matter might interact with their technology.

Who designed such wonky machines? You as a viewer have to basically disconnect yourself from the world because it makes no sense. Basically apart from the Tharsis which simply hasn't had its science explained yet pretty much everyone looks to made to be defeated. It's essentially the let's put the shield generator outside the shield logic. Logic for the convenience of the plot. You'd have to be an absolute nitwit to ever think that sort of thinking is a good idea, but that's exactly what you get.

Take this episode's gravity waves knight for example. Do you think he was even aware that his machine was extremely vulnerable to any sort of attack from above? Good thing it moves slower than a dead turtle. How in the world did it get past the design phase? Why would anyone approve a spec like that for production when it has such an obvious design flaw?

Do the Counts design their own Kats? Most probably not, but they may have a say on the design/function. In episode 3S2 we see Saazbaum talking to engineers who tune his Kat, and later in battle he mentioned he took liberty moving the shield gap elsewhere. Just as a CEO of company doesn't design his own products, but merely gives direction/approval.

None of their weakness are obvious, but every tank have a weak spot. Note the Aldnoah drives, can only have one special function utilized, and the drives are precious and limited.

Originally Posted by DemiDomo

fist to death made literally no sense, what so ever.

mr.samurai knight was just dumb. also tiny mech legs are disturbing.

mr.frost mech actually made some sense but inaho logic beat that. imma make explosions to block his mechs fridge powers. you would think they give the dude a gun just incase someone can penetrate his defense.

Nilokeras utilizes multidimensional barriers, he can't shoot behind the barriers, and leaving holes for the gun port is too obvious a weakness.

Argyre utilizes plasma generation, and reason it doesn't have guns is because Vlad's ego thinking guns are crude and uncivilized. Also he can't shoot without setting aside his plasma blades, which also protects the Kat from incoming fire.

Hellas utilizes macromolecule conversion, basically fusing all moving parts together for ultimate strength. The power is reversed if the parts moved. If she fights with guns, her Kat can't move because people be firing back at her. Not bad, but she ultimately be a fixed turret, and UFE can surround her and wait till she starve to death or she move and risk taking damage.

Dioscuria (unjoined) utilizes stealth, and therefore equipped with conventional weapon such as guns and missiles as shown episode 11 and 12. Dioscuria (joined) utilizes mixture of above powers, while losing its guns and missiles, for reasons above.

Tharsis utilizes supercomputer. In episode 3S2 Inaho stated it must be an analytical engine similar to his (eye), but more (Aldnoah level) powerful. While Inaho's can suggests possibilities in a chess game, Slaine's can go further and predict future movements in almost time-travel uncanny. For that Tharsis is equipped with guns, physical shields, blades and fast mobility to take most advantage of the ability.

Frozen Elysium utilizes shunting of heat into separate dimension. As shown it takes time for the freeze effect, thus the Kat move slow to avoid going out of the 1km effect zone. It doesn't have guns, because the bullet will be effected by cold too, and the Kat's magnetic field, causing the Kat's aim to go off.

The Gravity Kat utilizes gravity formed by polarization effect of the spinning balls. For obvious reasons its not equipped guns, gravity around it blocks shots. It moves slowly, for three reasons; heavy armor (Marito's shot bounced off its armor), to maintain center between the spinning balls, and Count Mazuurek wanted the Terrans retreat and not kill them.

For movement in space, each can be fitted with thrusters with no real problems. Frozen Elysium may need to use ion thrusters that can work in freezing conditions.

If you guys have anymore questions, can ask me

I pride myself in my analytical skills and science knowledge.

[Arya]

The main issue here is the imbalance between Mars and Earth power. The gap is so wide that normal Earth soldiers can't fill up and so only someone gifted but also committed as Inaho can do it, and at times he needs help. Hopefully they'll put some more effort in portray him at least using / coordinating the other soldiers. I do hope that will be his next step.
On the other hand we have also to remember that Inaho will always take all the risks on himself if the odds will sound acceptable. And even when they don't. Last time against Slaine and Saazbaum he would have been doomed without Inko. He also didn't let Calm paint his Sleipnir (by the way, are you stupid Calm, can't you see by yourself how badass it looks in orange? ) because in that way he draws the attention on himself.
In that regard in fact Yuki is right to be worried, since Inaho is always at its limit.

On the other hand, how could a martian pilot test really find out the weak points of a Mars kat with such a difference in power. I mean, it is really difficult to do unless you can compare it or put against some comparable force. add to this the environment differences. Fact that can easily lead anyone to a simple thought, why should I bother? The Kat is so powerful that nobody could contrast it. Fact that normally would be almost true.

So the setting and the portrayal have been consistent, it's just that the result may be a bit repetitive. If they instead had given more time to show us Inaho and inko, Rayet and Yuki that would be much more appreciated.

But this show needed at least 4 cours to let explore all the characters involved. So it is not fair to compare it to shows that are 100 episodes long. If I have to think to 2 cours series, I can think to, Argevollen, but I can't comment on it since it was hate at first sight with the MC so I dropped it, Captain Earth, I tried to watch it but honestly it felt too childish, Buddy complex, they shorted it down themselves, yet to see the last two episodes by the way, nothing nearly memorable. Now there is Gundam Reco that is running but I knew from the start that it was not my cup of tea. Last we can mention, GC, VVV and Cross Ange If I have to compile my favorite rank for now A/Z would be on top of that. Having probably E7 AO at its bottom.
That aside, it is indicative that among those show I don't remember anyone mentioning them anywhere, but VVV (and no, I'm not counting Saki, that stands alone above all the previous mentioned titles. It is really difficult to do a mecha series within 2 cour I think, so having that in mind I think A/Z is doing pretty well.

[IceHism]

They should start making a mech with like 10 aldnoah drives.

Combine freezing power with multidimensional barrier, stealth, and gravity manipulation. Unless this isn't possible... But I don't see how anything in this show could beat this

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by azurestratos

Spoiler:

Do the Counts design their own Kats? Most probably not, but they may have a say on the design/function. In episode 3S2 we see Saazbaum talking to engineers who tune his Kat, and later in battle he mentioned he took liberty moving the shield gap elsewhere. Just as a CEO of company doesn't design his own products, but merely gives direction/approval.

None of their weakness are obvious, but every tank have a weak spot. Note the Aldnoah drives, can only have one special function utilized, and the drives are precious and limited.



Nilokeras utilizes multidimensional barriers, he can't shoot behind the barriers, and leaving holes for the gun port is too obvious a weakness.

Argyre utilizes plasma generation, and reason it doesn't have guns is because Vlad's ego thinking guns are crude and uncivilized. Also he can't shoot without setting aside his plasma blades, which also protects the Kat from incoming fire.

Hellas utilizes macromolecule conversion, basically fusing all moving parts together for ultimate strength. The power is reversed if the parts moved. If she fights with guns, her Kat can't move because people be firing back at her. Not bad, but she ultimately be a fixed turret, and UFE can surround her and wait till she starve to death or she move and risk taking damage.

Dioscuria (unjoined) utilizes stealth, and therefore equipped with conventional weapon such as guns and missiles as shown episode 11 and 12. Dioscuria (joined) utilizes mixture of above powers, while losing its guns and missiles, for reasons above.

Tharsis utilizes supercomputer. In episode 3S2 Inaho stated it must be an analytical engine similar to his (eye), but more (Aldnoah level) powerful. While Inaho's can suggests possibilities in a chess game, Slaine's can go further and predict future movements in almost time-travel uncanny. For that Tharsis is equipped with guns, physical shields, blades and fast mobility to take most advantage of the ability.

Frozen Elysium utilizes shunting of heat into separate dimension. As shown it takes time for the freeze effect, thus the Kat move slow to avoid going out of the 1km effect zone. It doesn't have guns, because the bullet will be effected by cold too, and the Kat's magnetic field, causing the Kat's aim to go off.

The Gravity Kat utilizes gravity formed by polarization effect of the spinning balls. For obvious reasons its not equipped guns, gravity around it blocks shots. It moves slowly, for three reasons; heavy armor (Marito's shot bounced off its armor), to maintain center between the spinning balls, and Count Mazuurek wanted the Terrans retreat and not kill them.

For movement in space, each can be fitted with thrusters with no real problems. Frozen Elysium may need to use ion thrusters that can work in freezing conditions.

If you guys have anymore questions, can ask me

I pride myself in my analytical skills and science knowledge.

Then your logic proves how stupid those weapons were.
All their weapons are so gimmicky.

At this point I don't understand why they just don't get bunch of Tharsis, I mean able to predict the future that sounds amazing. Just get five of those.
Maybe they will explain that each drive do different things, and maybe Tharsis is rare, until then their weapons are just bunch of gimmicks.

As for the shield, why can't they give it a function to move it around. Don't attach it to the main body but attach it to something that can move. So now you can cover yourself certain parts, shoot, and see.