Island War [Manga]

[Awakened]

Isley can force Helen, Deneven and Dietrich to fight with him. The ZACS cannot locate them but Isley can sense their yoki. If he comes up with a plan, he can use them to escape or kill the ZACS.

[revan5]

Originally Posted by Awakened

Isley can force Helen, Deneven and Dietrich to fight with him. The ZACS cannot locate them but Isley can sense their yoki. If he comes up with a plan, he can use them to escape or kill the ZACS.

I am actually expecting him to do something along those lines just as the three are leaving. Of course Isley will not be in nearly as good a position once Miria shows up. Despite being an Abyssal One, Miria would at this time still be something of a challenge for him to take down. I expect he'll figure out quite quickly that the Ghosts are anything but normal Claymores.

I doubt they'll kill the ZACS, but if Miria were to gather the whole team...I mean, once Claire is in the picture things change for the Ghosts. Claire's windcutter would be perfect for use against these things!

[Awakened]

Originally Posted by revan5

I am actually expecting him to do something along those lines just as the three are leaving. Of course Isley will not be in nearly as good a position once Miria shows up. Despite being an Abyssal One, Miria would at this time still be something of a challenge for him to take down. I expect he'll figure out quite quickly that the Ghosts are anything but normal Claymores.

I doubt they'll kill the ZACS, but if Miria were to gather the whole team...I mean, once Claire is in the picture things change for the Ghosts. Claire's windcutter would be perfect for use against these things!

I think the ghost would be perfect against the ZACS. Clare, Deneven and Miria on the front line, Helen patiently waiting for an opening to attack. The rest could be in defensive mod, staying close to help, but not actively on offense.

[MisterJB]

thanks revan5, that's some really good analysis. The organization passed from a suicide level to the strongest faction on Continent.
I just don't think that Isley is on the same level than the ghosts.
He is probrably stronger than all of them toghether but the ghosts don't have 11 naked zombies trying to eat them alive...

[revan5]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

thanks revan5, that's some really good analysis. The organization passed from a suicide level to the strongest faction on Continent.
I just don't think that Isley is on the same level than the ghosts.
He is probrably stronger than all of them toghether but the ghosts don't have 11 naked zombies trying to eat them alive...

There's a small problem with the "I just don't think that Isley is on the same level" as the Ghosts comment MisterJB.

1) Isley's strength has effectively been neutralized
2) The Ghosts can multi-task and he cannot
3) The Ghosts are now a military power IF Rabona's army is under their command
4) Isley could never hope to mount a human/Claymore rebellion against the Org
5) The Ghosts are far more aware of the strategic picture than Isley is.

So sure, if we were to suppose that Isley took on the Ghosts he'd beat them, but given who is pursuing him, the weakened state he would be in thereafter would probably cost him his life.

What I'm saying is that it would be suicidal for Isley to take on Miria and the entire team, which keeps growing you'll notice. The Ghosts are at the same level not purely for strength reasons, but for reasons dealing with their stealthy nature, their massively fortified headquarters, their outstanding intelligence (which will allow them to attract Claymore defectors and mount a rebellion), their possible political/military alliance with Rabona and its military/political might, and their numbers, which gives them a flexibility Isley cannot match.

IF they join forces then they'll outstrip Riful's faction and become a real threat to the Organization. It remains to be seen if this will happen, but I expect the Ghosts will shortly be talking to Isley (quite bluntly in Helen/Deneve's cases) about all sorts of things.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by revan5

There's a small problem with the "I just don't think that Isley is on the same level" as the Ghosts comment MisterJB.

1) Isley's strength has effectively been neutralized
2) The Ghosts can multi-task and he cannot
3) The Ghosts are now a military power IF Rabona's army is under their command
4) Isley could never hope to mount a human/Claymore rebellion against the Org
5) The Ghosts are far more aware of the strategic picture than Isley is.

So sure, if we were to suppose that Isley took on the Ghosts he'd beat them, but given who is pursuing him, the weakened state he would be in thereafter would probably cost him his life.

What I'm saying is that it would be suicidal for Isley to take on Miria and the entire team, which keeps growing you'll notice. The Ghosts are at the same level not purely for strength reasons, but for reasons dealing with their stealthy nature, their massively fortified headquarters, their outstanding intelligence (which will allow them to attract Claymore defectors and mount a rebellion), their possible political/military alliance with Rabona and its military/political might, and their numbers, which gives them a flexibility Isley cannot match.

IF they join forces then they'll outstrip Riful's faction and become a real threat to the Organization. It remains to be seen if this will happen, but I expect the Ghosts will shortly be talking to Isley (quite bluntly in Helen/Deneve's cases) about all sorts of things.

You got me wrong. I meant that the Ghosts are above Isley right now

[revan5]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

You got me wrong. I meant that the Ghosts are above Isley right now

Ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. Now then, I rarely hear about what people think about the idea of the Ghosts leading Rabona's human millitary.

Is it because it is easy to view humans as not essential to the plot or because their strength is so much less than our heroines?

If you're a skeptic of humans playing a part in this, remember, ultimately the Organization relies on support from human villages/towns/cities paying them to extinguish Yoma. If the Ghosts can unify the human population of the island together, then they'll be golden on launching the full-scale overthrow of the Organization.

Without human support or even Abyssal support (be it from Isley/Riful/Priscilla/Raciella), the Ghosts have little chance of pulling their rebellion off. If the humans revolt, the Organization would be exposed for what it really is, and that might cause a perilous amount of disloyalty in the ranks.

Anyone else have any thoughts on how humans will play a part in the upcoming war with the organization?

[Awakened]

Humans could fight if the Org send ordinary Yomas against them. If the Org send anything stronger they will have to hide behind the ghost and use some kind of heavy rage weapons.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by revan5

If you're a skeptic of humans playing a part in this, remember, ultimately the Organization relies on support from human villages/towns/cities paying them to extinguish Yoma. If the Ghosts can unify the human population of the island together, then they'll be golden on launching the full-scale overthrow of the Organization.

I don't think the org needs the monetary support of the humans. To me it is all a big control thing in an Medieval type setting version of the Matrix. The org taking the money the villagers so desperately need is all part of the illusion. Perhaps, if the org did it for free people would be suspicious? I think there is far more commerce going on, on the mainland that dwarfs anything a few little villages could come up with.

[Ancient Soul]

Originally Posted by Awakened

Humans could fight if the Org send ordinary Yomas against them. If the Org send anything stronger they will have to hide behind the ghost and use some kind of heavy rage weapons.

Would be cool to have a battle : Rabona vs The ORG.

Rabona's Army vs a few hundreds youma gathered by The ORG and send towards the city.Would not be the first time when a city is attacked by youma in large number (the village where Irene gathered her team come to mind).Of course Miria would be the Fieldmarshal.Cid will be the commander of cavalry and Galk that of infantry.

I think that the tactic used by Cid & Galk against Agatha (shield wall doubled by pointed spears\halebards) or throwing halebards\spears would work quite well against youmas.Maybe a third row of swordsman to chop quickly any impaled youma will add to their chances to win.I'm not sure f a youma can jump over the city walls of Rabona since they are quite tall so either the battle would be at the city gates (good) or in open terrain (bad).The youma (back in Rabona) runned away when a group of soldiers approched and he was one of the strongest youmas!

We should remember that Agathat praised Cid and figured out that he fought youmas before.So i humans could tell who is a youma and who is not will have not much problems (by this i mean that they will not go extinct!) killing them even if in large numbers.


Of course Rabona may tell the truth about The ORG to the entire island but exept Rabona's forces thre are no other trained troops across the island to fight.The people's problem is not only the youmas.Since the north was destroyed the economy nearly collapsed (see Raki's village) , with the south half-destroyed most likely many people were displaced and moved towards the central region or west (the villages where Helen&Deneve and Clare went were quite populated).People would be more worried about food & shelter that youmas.So for the moment revealing the truth i doubt would have a great impact.We should not forget that each village\city appear to be on his own with just maybe religion (mostly in the west\center) making a connection between them.Thre is no central gouvernment.This is a medieval like period.I think is next to impossible for the island to muster a reliable army to hunt down youmas and maybe even weak AB.Also people just don't feel yoki...yet there may be people who may have a good six-sense to find them.

[MisterJB]

Even if the Yoma can't jump over the walls, they can use their claws to climb them and there are always the flying Yoma

[Ancient Soul]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Even if the Yoma can't jump over the walls, they can use their claws to climb them and there are always the flying Yoma

You are right...i was blinded by Rabona's Walls (they are quite impressive)

Forgot about the flying youmas.Not to much of them thru manga.They seem to be very few compared with other youmas.They use their ability rather to flee that to fight.Also when we saw them they fighted in normal form!So i doubt we will see to much of them in a battle.And even if we will do Rabona soldiers showed against Agatha that they can throw quite far and high their weapons!

As for youmas climbing the walls they would be vulnerable so if are enough defenders any youma army who would siege the city would suffer quite a lot of loses before reaching the top of the walls.Also one single youma in Rabona Know History infiltrated the city.I'm quite sure he entered (in disguise) thru the city gates!

I think that youmas would be in advantage in open terrain rather than in a siege.

[Wiggle wyrm]

If it came to open war, I think the Organization would have more to worry about than lost revenue. Let’s not forget that about possibility of the Organization’s Claymores turning on them. I’m sure they would take a dim view on the Org lying to them (about everything), using them as guinea pigs, killing innocent people and slaughtering their families with yoma.

47 Claymores, 7 ghosts, Miata, Clarice and Galatea joining up with humans and attacking the Org is a pretty formidable force. Sure the Org has Alicia, Beth and the Abyssal Eaters, but they can’t be everywhere, aren’t completely controllable or optimized for defending yourself. Especially when all it would take is pissed off Claymore to wipe out the whole command structure of the Org.

[Wiggle wyrm]

On a separate note, how does the get yoma to do what they want? Somehow I think it would be difficult getting Yoma to follow directions.

Yoma: So what do you want?

MiB 1: You see that massive city with the army of heavily armed men lined up on its walls?
MiB 2: Good, fly over and kill them.

MiB 1: There should also be seven cloaked Claymores in there too. They’ve been going around beating up our Claymores and killing every AB in sight.
MiB 2: Yes, kill them too.

MiB 1: Galatea the former number 3 is somewhere in there too. She’s an expert at finding and manipulating Yoki.
MiB 2: She defiantly needs go.

MiB 1: And don’t forget about Miata. She’s the Claymore that was expected to be the next number 1, but was too psychologically unstable.
MiB 2: You’ll have to kill her as well.

Yoma: ... (flies off)

MiB 1:
MiB 2:

[revan5]

Originally Posted by Wiggle wyrm

On a separate note, how does the get yoma to do what they want? Somehow I think it would be difficult getting Yoma to follow directions.

Yoma: So what do you want?

MiB 1: You see that massive city with the army of heavily armed men lined up on its walls?
MiB 2: Good, fly over and kill them.

MiB 1: There should also be seven cloaked Claymores in there too. They’ve been going around beating up our Claymores and killing every AB in sight.
MiB 2: Yes, kill them too.

MiB 1: Galatea the former number 3 is somewhere in there too. She’s an expert at finding and manipulating Yoki.
MiB 2: She defiantly needs go.

MiB 1: And don’t forget about Miata. She’s the Claymore that was expected to be the next number 1, but was too psychologically unstable.
MiB 2: You’ll have to kill her as well.

Yoma: ... (flies off)

MiB 1:
MiB 2:

I think we're forgetting that all seven of those Claymores are probably single-digit level in fighting abilities now. With an army behind them and additional recruits to the cause (Galatea, Miata, Clarice and possibly Renee & Dietrich), they make for a formidable opponent. Imagine sending in hundreds of Youma only to see them systematically wiped out through crossbow shots and claymore strikes in front of the massive city walls of Rabona.

If they send hundreds of Youma, expect the Organization to get a nasty shock. The soldiers of Rabona have experience with things far worse than mere, regular Youma, and with the Ghosts behind them, they'd know in advance of the attack.

Of course, a lot of things depend on them all being there. They are more vulnerable right now, and if Isley were to join them (I think it would be an alliance of convenience even if not desired), they'd finally be capable of holding off almost any attack. Not bad for a less than month old rebellion...

Anything less than an all-out attack on the combined force of Ghosts and Rabona's army will be defeated. Looks like they need to bring out the Abyss Feeders on a new hunt. Now that'd be a fight.

With Galatea as blind as she is, I still can't help but wonder how it was she could sense buildings and people without Youki during battles. I mean honestly, how did she do it?!?

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Maybe the Demon eats AB and Isley is a potential snack

High-five! Anyone?

[revan5]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

High-five! Anyone?

Back at you. Anyways MisterJB, I didn't see a response to my last post. Anything in Island War you thought of that I haven't?

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by revan5

Back at you. Anyways MisterJB, I didn't see a response to my last post. Anything in Island War you thought of that I haven't?

Thanks.

Ah, sorry about that.
Well, Rabona's army could play an important factor against the Org. Its basically useless against anything like Agatha&Rigardo or an Abyssal One. Even so, an army large enough could be an headache to the Org. For example, the Ghosts are figthing against Alicia, they are getting a beating and they can't reach Beth because she is being protected by 45 or 43 Claymores. Well, its in a situation like this that Rabona's army could give them a hand, if the army is composed by 500-600 men then against 43 Claymore I think they could have a good hchance. If the army could distract the Claymore, then Beth would be wide open for an attack from Yuma, Cynthia, Tabitha and Galatea while Miria, Clare, Helen, Deneve and Miata are keeping Alicia busy.

Of course, we have yet to see if Miria can put Rabona's army fighting for her.
If Isley survives this and joins Miria&co then probrably only Raciella or Priscilla (if Raki is against the Silver King) would be a threat to them.

Still I think that the one allying with the Ghosts will be Riful, she will see what the Org did to Isley and understand that with Alicia and the AE, the Org is almost invencible at the moment (I think I just contradicted myself)
Then, there is the Raciella factor. Claymore is so unpredictable right now. I just hope Yagy won't introduce anything new until etheir RIful or Isley are dead

[Newhope]

Normal youma would be next to useless against the ghosts, Noel and Sophia had had no trouble and even had time to mess about against a village full of them, my bets Miria will just do her trade mark sigh and say "Yuma deal with them.

[revan5]

Holy cow, this month's chapter really shook up things! That's not to say the last few chapters haven't done that! As such, we now need yet another new balance of power assessment for the "Island War".

Spoiler for The completely shaken up balance of power:

Wow, what a change. With Isley dead, the Island War has entered a much more dangerous stage. One of the things you learn is that when there is a slight imbalance of power, it is much more likely to have a war than if both sides are equally matched or completely mismatched in strength. Which is precisely where we find ourselves at present time with Isley's death, which has wiped out the Island War's balance of power.

Island War's Top power: The Organization

Not only do they have Alicia/Beth, but they have more than 11 Demons at their disposal at one time. In the meantime their numerous, if overstretched Claymores, provide them with a formidable backup in strength should everything go wrong. With their Abyss Feeders (Demons) wiping out Isley after 7 years of constant wear and tear, they have now completely upset the Island's relative peace.

But that isn't to say they have some major issues. Riful at the moment heads the list. Should Riful awaken a new Abyssal "pet", the Organization will be thrown into utter chaos. Alicia/Bess would not be enough to take on two Abyssal Ones. Instead the Abyss Feeders' backup seems to be the crucial backup the Organization needed to make the strike they've just ordered.

Besides possibly facing a second Awakened, they are likely to see the Ghosts get drawn into the conflict. Also, the chance that Priscilla might get drawn in, something they hadn't counted on (an Abyssal even stronger than Riful), must surely rank as their greatest nightmare. As I always say, "What you don't know CAN kill you."

Island War's new #2 Power: The Ghosts

Why? Well, it has everything to do with intelligence, the nature of the Organization's Abyss Feeders, and their relatively secure base of operations (Rabona).

Let's start with intelligence. The Organization, due to Rubel's traitorous nature, has no idea who they're facing in these encounters with unknown parties. For any great power, being in the dark is a bad thing. It gives the advantage to the side with the better knowledge of the other: the Ghosts. The Ghosts know where the Org is primarily based. They know about Alicia's vulnerabilities, they know about the mainland, they know about the Org's real purpose, they know about the Abyss Feeders now (some of them at least), the death of Isley (Helen/Deneve), and they are slowly picking off deserters from the ranks of the Organization's Claymores.

"So what's the big deal about that?"-Well actually, it's a significant problem for the Org, since if Alicia/Bess fight the Ghosts, the Ghosts will know exactly what to do. More worryingly, they've shown the ability to bring down Awakened #2s with ease. Alicia may prove quite a challenge, but if Bess is targeted, all bets are off. The Org could very easily lose control or just purely lose its "controllable Abyssal One". With fewer Claymores to back them up, the Org has to fall back on the Abyss Feeders.

This is a significant problem for them. Abyss Feeders need pieces of flesh in order to train them. They currently have no pieces of any of the Ghosts, so hunting them with A.F.s is out. The only way they might be able to do it is likely to turn their own Claymores against them: have the Abyss Feeders be trained to devour humans in Rabona. It's dirty but logical, and would force the Ghosts to fight. Of course they need to know where the Ghosts live, and they don't even know who the Ghosts are, let alone their real purpose. Thus the Ghosts have a huge advantage in surprise at present.

Island War's #3 & most vulnerable power:

The Western Abyssal (Riful+Dauf):

Riful does not know Isley is now dead, though she does know about Alicia. However, she does not know Alicia's weakness to our knowledge, and even if she does, she will have no idea what the hell the Abyss Feeders are. They are a deadly combination, and only the presence of Dauf is keeping me from writing her off completely. In addition, the possibility she may awaken a new Abyssal One is just that, a possibility.

Even if it does happen, the chances for it turning on her are high. A few things that may save her include:

The presence of the Ghosts in the West, who may intervene to prevent the Org from wiping out every other power. They may even form an alliance of necessity with Riful while they hold their noses. Also a possible danger or help is Priscilla, who I have cut off as a power until she shows some eagerness to use her power.

Island War Power #4: The Organization's enemy/Descendants of Dragons

They just got surprised by the audacity of the Org sending Alicia/Bess along with new Abyss Feeders after Riful. They may yet intervene to help out the Ghosts again in some way.

Dead power: Isley

His death has shaken everything up. All bets are now off.

Dormant power: Priscilla (Super-Abyssal)

Needs to awaken or show some purpose for me to rank her as an active power.

Thoughts anyone?