Character Discussion - Lelouch

[azul120]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

why was suzaku so hated when opposing lelouch, when in effect he was actually RIGHT to do so (especially after euphie)

For reasons not really having to do with that it was against Lelouch. Submitting to the bloody Emperor instead, first of all, for goodness sakes.

why was ougi given such a hate fandom for turning on lelouch for perfectly good REASONS (he DID lie to them for over a year, and is guilty of several crimes that cant be forgiven)

Regardless of scale, and aside from degree of responsibility for murders, Ougi was guilty of hypocrisy in what he accused Lelouch of, not to mention incompetence and partiality, particularly in a time of trial by court. And unlike Lelouch, he never faced up to anything that he did, even though it very nearly made everything the BKs worked for all for naught.

why did kallen suddenly started getting more hate after opposing lelouch when there is no logical reasons for this
why did NUNNALY, get hate for opposing him

These I agree with.

my problem is that lelouch's leather pants also rub off on everyone around him
and this forms a complete detachment between what happens in the story, and what the fans choose to see

if your with lelouch, you get love
if you oppose lelouch, you get hate
and thats moral dissonance on the part of the viewers
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power"

There is truth in that with much of the fanbase. But the reverse actually applies with people who hate Lelouch as well. With those people, anyone who sides with him is more likely to get the Scrappy treatment, while anyone who opposes him gets the Leather Pants. It's all a case of Broken Base meets Fan Dumb.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

dude, come on.

he's dead. deader than dead. dead, dead, dead.

spinzaku killed him to death via penetration.

now you see the dark path that comes from insisting that lelouch is cool no matter what he does and is beyond criticism
its leads to dudes like this who want him to be alive SO MUCH, that they ignore what happened in the show and what Word of God says, just because they love him so fucking much

[zongetsu]

Originally Posted by morbofist

They are not equally canon, they are not even canon. They're just there to promote the show and draw interest.

same can be said with any merchandice.

Originally Posted by morbofist

They are not all in sync, because believe it or not Biglobe has bigger things to deal with than the minor details of a show it pays Sunrise to insert references to its product into.

If i remember correctly, Biglobe was only used once in the entire series and that was when lelouch was looking up info on suzaku in the first season. Presumably ep 5. That was one thing. Biglobe is like the yahoo.

Originally Posted by morbofist

If they cared, they wouldn't have stopped updating the show info after Turn 24.

Maybe they didnt need to update it anymore, did you think of that? You should ask yourself the question why they would all of a sudden stop updating it because they obviously update everything else. As for Bladeofdarkness, he should realize that people became dead because they were believed to be dead. Nunnally for instance was listed as dead because we believed her to be dead. When we knew she wasnt dead then she was "relit" and listed as alive.

Originally Posted by morbofist

When you address this point, I will take you seriously. Until then, all you're doing is holding your fingers in your ears and going "la la la" at anything that might upset your delicate world view.

Point addressed. I'm not the one holding up my fingers, you are. You persistantly make everything possibly relating even a little bit towards him being alive wrong. Sure make a "promo poster" that is not the ending. THen dont make one that is the ending. Sure, only explain the obvious and not the unexplained. When something is unexplained please make it up and/or use "word of god".

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

now you see the dark path that comes from insisting that lelouch is cool no matter what he does and is beyond criticism
its leads to dudes like this who want him to be alive SO MUCH, that they ignore what happened in the show and what Word of God says, just because they love him so fucking much

Lelouch being dead is important. If he's not dead, if Sunrise brings him back, it's already massive character derailment even before he's done a single thing or spoke a single line.

I love Lelouch's character. That doesn't mean I worship him as a person. I'm hoping you'll finally understand.

Remember that I'm a writer, a creator of fiction, and we look at fiction differently than those who merely consume it. A character like Lelouch is so much fun to write, and it's a challenge to write well. Both of these things make writers giddy with joy.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

now you see the dark path that comes from insisting that lelouch is cool no matter what he does and is beyond criticism
its leads to dudes like this who want him to be alive SO MUCH, that they ignore what happened in the show and what Word of God says, just because they love him so fucking much

You know they actually had a deleted scene that would have totally confirmed his death. I kinda wish they had left it in. It goes something like this.

Cornelia: As the crowned Princess Cornelia, in the state of Brittania, I do proclaim most regally.

Viletta: But we've got to verify it legally, to see

Cornelia: To see?

Viletta: If he

Cornelia: If he?

Viletta: Is morally, ethically

Guilford: Spiritually, physically

Minami: Positively, absolutely

All: Undeniably and reliably dead!

Coroner: As coroner, I must aver, I thoroughly examined......him.
And he's not only merely dead he's really most sincerely dead.

Cornelia: Then this is a day of Independence for all the Britannians and their descendants

Viletta: If any

Cornelia:Yes, let the joyous news be spread. The wicked old king at last is dead!

[bladeofdarkness]

but the people i'm talking about (zongetsu is an example)
dont CARE about the fact that lelouch being alive is a derailment
and THATS the kind of people i'm bitching about
if your not one of them, great, then we dont really disagree
i'm glad we feel the same way about it being a derailment

@nobody
awesome post
but i'd expect cornellia to go a little farther
stuff and mount him over the fireplace maybe

[synaesthetic]

laughing
so hard.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by zongetsu

Maybe they didnt need to update it anymore, did you think of that? You should ask yourself the question why they would all of a sudden stop updating it because they obviously update everything else. As for Bladeofdarkness, he should realize that people became dead because they were believed to be dead. Nunnally for instance was listed as dead because we believed her to be dead. When we knew she wasnt dead then she was "relit" and listed as alive.

Lelouch is dead (by your own logic with Nunnally, the site would acknowledge this because that's what we see), Suzaku is Zero, Anya is no longer a KoR, Schenizel is Zero's slave, Britannia as it was no longer exists... try again, because you're not even close to rationally addressing the point. There is a ton of crap for them to update, yet they haven't updated a thing. I'm sorry, but just go away. It's no longer funny. You don't know what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by zongetsu

Point addressed. I'm not the one holding up my fingers, you are. You persistantly make everything possibly relating even a little bit towards him being alive wrong. Sure make a "promo poster" that is not the ending. THen dont make one that is the ending. Sure, only explain the obvious and not the unexplained. When something is unexplained please make it up and/or use "word of god".

Point still not addressed, just an incorrect attempt at explaining something you are already patently wrong on and won't admit it. Everything you bring up to say Lelouch is alive is wrong, because it's all your opinion or ridiculous crap you twist to make yourself right. Give up. You do not have the ability to argue properly here, because you do not understand the purpose of the "proofs" you are bringing up.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@nobody
awesome post
but i'd expect cornellia to go a little farther
stuff and mount him over the fireplace maybe

Who says she didn't?

Aah, midgets singing about death.

[azul120]

Lol, like she'd have the right to do that.

[zongetsu]

[qupte=morbofist]You should ask yourself the question why they would all of a sudden stop updating it because they obviously update everything else.[/quote]

Please tell me why they would chose to be "lazy" and not update it please. And, since the sites are not "canon" to you, what if they said lelouch died forever and they buried him and yadaydayada? I guess it wouldnt count then right?

Everything you bring up to say Lelouch is alivedead is wrong, because it's all your opinion or ridiculous crap you twist to make yourself right.

Nunnally just happened to read a dying mans intentions by touching his hands for a few seconds. Or, "just because" and then, the authors said so, somewhere a long time ago........

To be honest, the only attempt i have EVER heard of nunnally seeing anything is through the fabled geass-net. Yep...i have never gotten connection or have talked to anyone who has gotten connection with that site. Supposidly nunnally can read minds now? Sure...

opinions...if lelouch lived, he is a fag, he betrayed me

Promo's dont count, they just want to make the opposite of everything =]

Originally Posted by morbofist

You do not have the ability to argue properly here, because you do not understand the purpose of the "proofs" you are bringing up.

You dont have any proof's only one thing (guidebook too but w/e). Okouchi's words. However what if his own words were misinterpreted? I too can easily say, lelouch died to change the world and that was his story just as okouchi did. lelouch vi britannia no longer existed so his story would hit a full stop. But what if he lived? Just without anymore masks?

CC told him he couldnt forget about his past (could he?)
Schneizel said there is no victory for those who cannot use their masks
Suzaku said the one who breaks the chain of hate should not have to lose everything

What if he forgot his past, broke away from those he loved, and still not lose everything? Of course to you its not possible

Word of god cant contradict itself. If lelouch died, but the "flashback" is not explained by nunnally then it doesnt work that well does it. Boy i like to attack this nunnally issue.

oh yeah, please point out the obvious mr. obvious. I too saw that. But it is the final one. Perhaps it doesnt matter as long as they are alive? Idk explain it mr. know it all

[Nogitsune]

I still don't get how Lelouch having survived by accident would be a derailment, but... oh well. It's true that he's pretty much dead.
But actually, I also rather like him as a person, even though he can be quite the bastard. As long as he doesn't go all Zero Requiem on real life, he'll get hugs from me.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by zongetsu

[qupte=morbofist]
You dont have any proof's only one thing (guidebook too but w/e). Okouchi's words.

puting aside that Okouchi's words are the ONLY thing that matters
he wrote the story after all
you are still wrong about that being the ONLY proof
lelouch died ON SCREEN
with a five minute death scene that included a full "life flash before his eyes" montage and an detailed explanation about WHY he MUST die
they also mentioned a promise between suzaku and lelouch that SUZAKU would kill him (hence avenge euphie, which is the last thing he said in ep 21 before the time skip)
and the price that lelouch exacts from suzaku in exchange for his death ("this is your punishment too")
he even says out loud the one thing that excuses his actions during the entire last arc
the "only ones allowed to shoot..." thing
and just to make it completely clear, he died in nunnaly's arms
wouldnt you think she'd notice if he started breathing or if his heart started beating again (which happened seconds after charles died)

he's dead
everything released and SHOWN ON SCREEN says he's dead
LELOUCH HIMSELF says he MUST die (and suzaku even tries talking him out of it)
there is nothing to suggest that he is still alive save for what you WANT to believe

@nogi
lelouch being alive intentionally would be a complete derailment
lelouch being alive by accident, would just be the writers screwing up a wonderful epic ending to an epic character

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by zongetsu

You dont have any proof's only one thing (guidebook too but w/e). Okouchi's words. However what if his own words were misinterpreted? I too can easily say, lelouch died to change the world and that was his story just as okouchi did. lelouch vi britannia no longer existed so his story would hit a full stop. But what if he lived? Just without anymore masks?

Grasping at straws. His words are very clear. Lelouch is dead. Again you twist and twist and twist until what you have left is a mockery of the intentions of the author, and it's just sad. He's dead. Get over it.

Originally Posted by zongetsu

Word of god cant contradict itself. If lelouch died, but the "flashback" is not explained by nunnally then it doesnt work that well does it. Boy i like to attack this nunnally issue.

oh yeah, please point out the obvious mr. obvious. I too saw that. But it is the final one. Perhaps it doesnt matter as long as they are alive? Idk explain it mr. know it all

It hasn't contradicted itself on this issue. You're just being stubborn. They say he's dead. Not an identity is dead, not some mask, just Lelouch. That's the obvious. Try to grasp it.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@nogi
lelouch being alive intentionally would be a complete derailment
lelouch being alive by accident, would just be the writers screwing up a wonderful epic ending to an epic character

*agrees with the former, but with the latter only because they made those official statements*
Otherwise, just leaving the ending open would have been perfect for me.

[SonOfHeaven]

You guys still arguing with zongetsu lol. We have already seen this happened before in one of the other RT's that cause like 5 or something pages to get deleted. At this point, no one can change his/her mind in what he/her belives is canon. Lelouch been confirmed dead so why bother changing someone's mind if the given person doesn't agree with what the staff said. As well as zongetsu believing half the official R2 guidebook isn't canon(Which wasn't an problem for S1's guidebook. And I wonder why lol). Just leave it at that.

What was wrote in Lelouch's profile in the book is how I saw things and it makes sense(Same with Suzaku, C.C and Kallen that made things more clearer). Zongetsu believes he is alive still(makes no sense to me personally) and others believes he is dead like the staff said like the show well showed lol. There's no need to go on in my eyes.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

You guys still arguing with zongetsu lol. We have already seen this happened before in one of the other RT's that cause like 5 or something pages to get deleted. At this point, no one can change his/her mind in what he/her belives is canon. Lelouch been confirmed dead so why bother changing someone's mind if the given person doesn't agree with what the staff said. As well as zongetsu believing half the official R2 guidebook isn't canon(Which wasn't an problem for S1's guidebook). Just leave it at that.

What was wrote in Lelouch's profile in the book is how I saw things and it makes sense(Same with Suzaku, C.C and Kallen that made things more clearer). Zongetsu believes he is alive still(makes no sense to me personally) and others believes he is dead like the staff said like the show well showed lol. There's no need to go on in my eyes.

fine then
we'll drop it then (i speak only for me)

[synaesthetic]

Remember guys, Lelouch being dead in canon does not affect fanfictions, so who cares? Lelouch is alive in a.t.b. 2019 in my fic because R2 never happens and neither does the Zero Requiem.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

You guys still arguing with zongetsu lol. We have already seen this happened before in one of the other RT's that cause like 5 or something pages to get deleted. At this point, no one can change his/her mind in what he/her belives is canon. Lelouch been confirmed dead so why bother changing someone's mind if the given person doesn't agree with what the staff said. As well as zongetsu believing half the official R2 guidebook isn't canon(Which wasn't an problem for S1's guidebook. And I wonder why lol). Just leave it at that.

What was wrote in Lelouch's profile in the book is how I saw things and it makes sense(Same with Suzaku, C.C and Kallen that made things more clearer). Zongetsu believes he is alive still(makes no sense to me personally) and others believes he is dead like the staff said like the show well showed lol. There's no need to go on in my eyes.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This is exactly why I chose not to get wrapped up in this pretty much pointless debate.

[yvj]

Damn epic Lulz foiled