Mouryou no Hako

[orion]

I think that...

Spoiler for ep. 4:

Kanako may have already been processed. The last shot of Kanako isn't showing any limbs and the guy with gloves on is looking inside a box at her. He's also most likely on a train. The light from the box opening only extending to past her neck and the view of the face of the gloved guy showed the end of the flap being above the level of his chin. I don't think that Kanako is in a full body-sized box but a rather small one.

That dream sequence could have been a way to show the viewers what happened to Kanako. The limbs walking off meaning that they may show up in boxes sometime soon.

Another timeline update...

Spoiler for space conservation only:

1952 date unknown: Kanako and Yoriko become friends.
1952 date unknown possibly after grandmother's death: Sekiguchi meets a man on the train with girl's head in box.
1952 date unknown: Kanako and Yoriko plan to go to a lake on August 15th. Possibly a double suicide.
8/15/1952: Kanako has an "accident" at the Musashi-Koganei station (Approx. Koganei, since it doesn't exist for 6 more years.). Kiba is on train home. Kanako is transferred to Mimasaka Medical Clinic under the care of Drs. Mimasaka and Suzaki. Yoriko tells her mother to die.
8/17/1952: Yoriko's mother starts thinking that Yoriko's been possessed by a mouryou.
8/18/1952: Yoriko's house gets purified. Yoriko meets man in town (the same one that was on the train with Sekiguchi) after being driven out of her house by the exorcist and has the inspiration for the "Kanako was pushed" scenario.
8/25/1952: Kidnap note was found by Kiba in the possession of Youko.
8/25/1952 onwards: Kanagawa police called in.
8/29/1952: Right arm found in a steel box in Otarumi Pass which can be accessed via Mount Takao.
8/30/1952: Both legs were found at Lake Sagami in a wooden box.
8/31/1952: Yoriko visits hospital using the "Kanako was pushed" scenario to gain access and sees Kanako. Kanako attempts to say something to Yoriko and the police but they don't hear her. Kanako vanishes moments later. Sekiguchi arrives by train after being called in to help a newspaper with the Dismemberment case in Mitaka. Gets lost and shows up at hospital. Gloved man was also sighted on the property. Dr. Suzaki murdered later that evening. Amemiya went missing.
9/6/1952: Hachiiouji (Lake Sagami), right leg in a wooden box.
9/7/1952: Choufu , left leg in a wooden box; Noborito , right arm in a wooden box
9/10/1952: Akishima, 2 left arms
9/15/1952: Prostitute disappears.
9/16/1952: Tanashi, body part found. Prostitute’s head shown in box.

Does it look like 2 different train lines are being used? Otarumi Pass, Mitaka, Hachiiouji, Kanako's accident,Akishima and Tanashi were along the Mitaka-Takao section whereas Choufu and Noborito were along the Tokyo-Mitaka section. Maybe the one killer is taunting the police.

[Thingle]

I wonder what her sister's reaction might be if she sees her limbless.

[orion]

So...

Spoiler for ep.4:

Does anyone believe that Sekiguchi is a copycat killer? Or is the opening sequence a dream reflecting his obsession with the girl in the box on the train and his desires to find one of Dr. Mimasaka's collegues from the military research unit who he thinks is behind all of this?

And...

Spoiler for ep.4:

Do you think that finding the parts at Choufu and Noborito are subtle digs at Youko (Choufu is the Hollywood of the Orient at that time) and Dr. Mimasaka (Noborito was the site of secret military research during the war)? If so why would the murderer feel the need to make it personal? Unless the killer is taunting the police by trying to tell them that he is close to Youko and Dr. Mimasaka?

[Matrim]

Does anyone believe that Sekiguchi is a copycat killer?

It would be too obvious since they basically showed it as if this was the case so early in the series. But I am still way too confused to be in a position to make any educated guesses, let alone theories. But I still harbour an irrational suspicion of Youko. After hearing Yoriko's story she thinks she has seen the black attired guy? Sounds fishy to me...

I think the most memorable part of episode four was Yoriko getting even creepier. I mean when she talked about Kanako becoming an angel

[orion]

Originally Posted by Matrim

I think the most memorable part of episode four was Yoriko getting even creepier. I mean when she talked about Kanako becoming an angel

Kanako is Yoriko's next life or some similar stuff. So I guess becoming an angel means that Yoriko will have a happy next life as well as dying before she become corrupt (before becoming an adult; age and wither). Yoriko pushing Kanako to her possible death and Kanako's ascension assured both in Yoriko's eyes. She's quite looney to me right now.

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by Matrim

It would be too obvious since they basically showed it as if this was the case so early in the series. But I am still way too confused to be in a position to make any educated guesses, let alone theories. But I still harbour an irrational suspicion of Youko. After hearing Yoriko's story she thinks she has seen the black attired guy? Sounds fishy to me...

I think the most memorable part of episode four was Yoriko getting even creepier. I mean when she talked about Kanako becoming an angel

It is an abduction/serial killer story. It just happened that some of the people involved are fascinated by spiritual things (we aren't even sure of their involvement). So focus on the facts and discard these angel tales.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Thingle

It is an abduction/serial killer story. It just happened that some of the people involved are fascinated by spiritual things (we aren't even sure of their involvement). So focus on the facts and discard these angel tales.

It's looking more to me as if the answer will be material rather than spiritual, but I'm still not ruling anything out. In ep4, Yoriko's mad look when she spoke of Kanako ascending made me think they were trying to tell us she was just crazy. But I still can't figure out a plausible way of abducting Kanako, especially since the evil blonde doctor doesn't appear to have been a party to it.

Spoiler for ep5:

There seem to me to be indications both ways in ep5. The remote viewing looked at least extrasensory, if not spiritual. But the bookseller's final statement that there is nothing miraculous in this world was pretty direct, especially after his seemingly mystical but probably Sherlock Holmesian correct statements about things he shouldn't have known.

Anyway, color me pleasantly confused.

[Mega-Japan]

Just watched all 4 episodes and jeez, this anime is confusing O.O
In fact, "confusion" is the sub-name. I really tried to understand it but didn't get farther than what the picture was showing.
The whole thing about people being murdered and put into boxes reminds me a LOT of Sai from Majin Tenten Neugami Neuro.
Since I don't like Aero, I'll rewatch it if a better group picks it up or if Ureshii catches up to try and catch things I probably missed.

[Thingle]

What happens in ep 6? Has anyone watched the raw?

[Sorrow-K]

Having seen up to episode 4, one of the best things about this series is its choice of period setting. Japan in the fifties is such an interesting time and place as the entire country was in something of a state of flux, particularly culture-wise, with the growing influence of the West just after the war and the conflict with traditional Japanese culture. It's an idea that was addressed overtly in the first episode and then again in ep 4, but it seems to me that this idea of traditionalism v modern Westernism and Japan's interpretation of it is one that the Japanese still really grapple with to this day (at least if their media is any indication). Kure-nai is a recent work that immediately comes to mind that explores this idea. So far this is teasing us with a possible exploration of this theme. We know it's going to happen, we've seen the hints of it and it's pretty much stuck it's probe in a time and place where the signal is at its strongest.

It looks like the idea of Japan's emergence as an economic power is on the cards as well. There's this rather obvious linkage between this and the cultural impact of an open, international Japan in ep 4 when the scene segues from a shot of an array of chimney stacks blowing smoke into the air to a chaotic red light district at night. There's an irony, and real power about the shot of the chimney stacks, considering what we know now but they probably didn't know then, about the environmental impact of blowing all that dirty smoke into the air. It's a topical example that serves as a reminder of how commonly held views about something can change so drastically over just a few decades.

The story itself is really interesting, even if the mystery is holding the cards very close to its chest. There's a real meticulous analytical feel about how the mystery is being processed by Detective Kiba. I love the stark contract between him and Yoriko, he's so logical and she's so emotional. They're on such different wavelengths that they can barely communicate with each other. The war trauma at the crux of Kiba's character is an interesting one, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they make of it. It is a bit convenient that he's dealing with nightmares about the war and could possibly be involved in a case involving research into super soldiers (a kettle of fish in itself; let's hope this show makes more of that idea than Nijuu Mensou no Musume could), but I'm okay with forgiving the occasional contrivance (as long as it doesn't get to a certain level).

I'm liking what I'm seeing in this show so far. The set up for a serial murder mystery is perfect, the atmosphere is absorbing and there's numerous interesting themes in play. There could be more to these characters, but the hooks are there for some probing character analyses here and there. Hopefully the answers we get will do the initial mystery justice (too often with mystery anime the answers are anticlimactic).

[Matrim]

Almost a month later and one more episode watched I am probably even more confused than I was before. First half of the episode was in my opinion needlessly long, second part was pretty much dialogue only. I am not sure if it was my imagination or the subs but I think it was implied Youko was actually Kanako's mother, not sister? Whatever the case is, if Kanako dies she probably will inherit the money, so I am even more suspicious of her. I am also interested how the hell are they going to prove who Kanako's father is without DNA tests.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Almost a month later and one more episode watched I am probably even more confused than I was before. First half of the episode was in my opinion needlessly long, second part was pretty much dialogue only.

Yeah, waiting a while for subs doesn't help this show. I was a little lost at the start, though finding out the first half was just a story being told i felt alright. I do agree that the first half went on for a little to long just to prove a point when he could have been done in just a few minutes.

What a character Kyougokudou is --- very awesome. I'm guessing he has some kind of mind reading ability.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

What a character Kyougokudou is --- very awesome. I'm guessing he has some kind of mind reading ability.

Possibly or it could be something not supernatural at all. I really think this show is purposely trying to confuse us about what is real and what's not. And throw in Sekiguchi's novel (I think that is what he is writing) and it gets even more confusing. But I have to admit I am really enjoying it. And I am really happy that the 5th episode was finally subbed. I hope the next couple come out soon as well.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Matrim

I am also interested how the hell are they going to prove who Kanako's father is without DNA tests.

HLA typing or rare family blood type possibly. Maybe the testing was already done. The lawyer didn't strke me as being completely truthful.

[Kogura]

Well i have finished watching Ep 07-08. With my basic understanding of Japanese, here is small summary for both eps.

in Ep07

Spoiler:

there is a huge discussion about the Mouryou the word. Kyougokudou explains what the word means in actually its original from, and how the meaning of the word slowly changes as it travels through different region of the world. later on, it is brought to attention that the new paper reporter (the driver - i can't remember his name atm) states that he might have a lead on who is possibly responsible for all the murder cases - the head priest of the local shrine. Kyougokudou listens and states it as one of the possible suspects.

in Ep08

Spoiler:

Akiba the detective visits the law doctor about those murder cases, and he receives some more information about the body they found. more importantly none of the body parts they found, are Kenoko's. the story then shift back to the Kyougokudou's resident as more people join in the conversion about the possible suspects for these murder cases. one of the most important facts they discussed is about kenoko's sister;she is really kenoko's mother. last part of this eps is about Yoriko, as she tries to find her place in the current world, until she finds herself trapped with the mystery man in white glove.

[Kikoto]

Seeing this show to ep8.

Spoiler:

At end of ep.8 Yoriko behave as always stupid and is caught by that white glove man,who also abducted Kanako and seems is the real killer.
I suppose he will process her in next episodes,and in ep 11-12 when our detectives will finnaly unravel who/where the murderer is,we will see both Yoriko and Kanako heads in one box eternally together,yup real yuri love ^^
It seems that all supernatural stuff in this serie is just some delusions/illusions.
But seeing this anime bad end is rather only logical conclusion,when they both die.
But still I have hope for our both heroines,if I won't have hard proof of their death.

[Kikoto]

I just saw raw of ep 9

Spoiler:

Well we see Yoriko's arm cut off plus a piece of her hair stained in blood,so it's rather obvious she's dead,sadly.
The only thing which amazes me is mysterious man,Kubo Shunko,motivation in doing this,I wonder if Yoriko gave her life willingly hearing a promise of eternal life,but rather I think that she was strangled and after that dismembered,if he cut her when she was alive then I rather don't want to think about it.
I really wonder why they put Yoriko as such important character from start if she was killed like any other schoolgirl,maybe she was put there for that purpose so anyone who watched from start could feel something for this character,after all she is not anonymous as other victims.
I wonder what Kanako will do knowing about Yoriko death like that,and what it would mean in terms of her next life.
Also I really wonder now what happened to Kanako,don't tell me she is some kind of immortal experiment and Kubo Shunko taking limbs/body parts from other girls is trying to make her immortal or something,he pushed her on the train to be able to test her maybe.
But really shame Yoriko died,I wanted happy ending for Kanako/Yoriko.
I really wonder if we really will see some supernatural things in this anime,rather everything supernatural which happened so far was some delusions/illusions.
But maybe animators will give us some candy and at the end we wil see Yoriko/Kanako happy together in some distant future in their new reincarnated bodies.But sadly I doubt it.
I also hope that bastard too will get similiar painfull dead.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Kikoto

I just saw raw of ep 9

Spoiler:

Well we see Yoriko's arm cut off plus a piece of her hair stained in blood,so it's rather obvious she's dead,sadly.
The only thing which amazes me is mysterious man,Kubo Shunko,motivation in doing this,I wonder if Yoriko gave her life willingly hearing a promise of eternal life,but rather I think that she was strangled and after that dismembered,if he cut her when she was alive then I rather don't want to think about it.
I really wonder why they put Yoriko as such important character from start if she was killed like any other schoolgirl,maybe she was put there for that purpose so anyone who watched from start could feel something for this character,after all she is not anonymous as other victims.
I wonder what Kanako will do knowing about Yoriko death like that,and what it would mean in terms of her next life.
Also I really wonder now what happened to Kanako,don't tell me she is some kind of immortal experiment and Kubo Shunko taking limbs/body parts from other girls is trying to make her immortal or something,he pushed her on the train to be able to test her maybe.
But really shame Yoriko died,I wanted happy ending for Kanako/Yoriko.
I really wonder if we really will see some supernatural things in this anime,rather everything supernatural which happened so far was some delusions/illusions.
But maybe animators will give us some candy and at the end we wil see Yoriko/Kanako happy together in some distant future in their new reincarnated bodies.But sadly I doubt it.
I also hope that bastard too will get similiar painfull dead.

But Kanako IIRC....

Spoiler:

...was also last seen as a head in a box in ep. 4 5:50-7:51 in theory possibly on a train. At least that scene makes more sense now. That's how her mind was processing her dismemberment.

[Kikoto]

I still think Kanako is alive,I think that our mysterious man just cut her arms and legs so he could easily move her around in some bigger box,seems she is a bit special for him,like a final masterpiece or something more which will be revealed in last episodes.

As for episode 10.

Spoiler:

Seeing Yoriko face at the end just creeped me out.
She just look like she was suffering a lot,at least she has strange grim on her face in the moment of her death,only thing I hope that she was struggled first,before other stuff happened.
As for Kubo well that devil escaped so easily,shame.
Seems I have to wait for subs to properly understand this episode better,really Kubo's motivation is just a mystery,well maybe he is Kanako father who got insane and that would explain few things for me easy.

[Matrim]

OK, please tell me something happens in the next episodes. Episodes 5 and 6 were as if taken from a whole different series than 1-4, so much talking about things which could have been said in much less time. OK, the second half of the episode was an exposition need for the overall plot of the series but the first half was quite a snorefest apart from Kyougokudou being really cool. Oh, and the cat, too.