2011-01-04, 06:04 | Link #21201 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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信じる心よ。……それは“私たち”の総意。 Ange: Shinjiru kokoro. That is "our" consensus. A literal translation of Shinjiru kokoro would be 'heart that believes'. However, it's more like 'spirit of believing'. Kind of difficult to translate properly. Bernkastel asked what it was so Ange told her. Bernkastel was at the scene but I don't think she agree'd on it. There were no gold letters but it was a gold attack that defeated Bern. (Though, Bern is back in the tea party) I'm still reading episode 8. This episode is difficult so it may take me quite some time to finish.
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2011-01-04, 08:11 | Link #21202 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Also, if you "turn the chessboard over" on the Ep.7 Tea Party and change your perspective just a little bit, you will see that Kyrie basically had Rudolph in the palm of her hand. Also, she and Eva was the main actors of this show while their husbands couldn't do anything and settled for supporting roles at best. As for Natsuhi and Krauss, if Krauss got over his stereotypes and trusted her wife's judgment more, he might avoid the financial disaster. Also, Jessica who suffers from the role imposed on her. Finally, if you look at the show as a whole, you will see that female cast have much deeper characterization and play more important roles. On the other hand, a lot of mystery novels suffers from using female cast as merely plot devices with little to no characterization. If anything, R07 suffers from the lack of memorable and likable male characters. Last edited by whispers11; 2011-01-04 at 08:23. |
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2011-01-04, 10:13 | Link #21203 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2006...agathachristie Here it is, in case anyone wants to read it. I certainly recommend it. As for your question of how people are enjoying this series, I'd say that the answer is that they have grown so attached to the characters that they no longer care about the actual story or tension. I personally only legitimately enjoyed one character in the series, and that is Will. Partially because he has the same first and last name as me and I'm an egomaniac, but also because throughout episode 7, he was the embodiment of a true mystery fan. He used a combination of logic and his own powers to deduce the truth, puts the criminal down, and once confronted with a terrible solution, proceeds to protest that the story in front of him is not a mystery, but just the author's fantasy. His use of the Van Dine rules and their lack of efficiency really hit home for me. It was a mystery lover uselessly struggling to keep the story from being a melodramatic romance, knowing full well that it would be impossible. That's how I felt throughout the series. Van Dine's rules weren't meant to be useful to solve the mystery, they were meant to show just how a mystery lover felt frustrated as he read the series. In that, I think Ryuukishi did really well. I can't hate him for making me angry like that, as that would be like hating Cameron for making me depressed with Titanic. I understand where you are coming from. I think that Ryuukishi's aim was to make the events a total tragedy from every point of view, fantasy, romance, and mystery. He just lacked the skill to accomplish that. The romance was the closest one to being a perfect tragedy. The writing and pacing made it still be pretty bad, but it was still the closest to being a well done piece of writing. The mystery tragedy was almost done in episode 7. Just a few more lines, showing a bit more of Will's fight against Bern, and it would have been great. The fantasy tragedy is terrible because it's not a true tragedy. But I digress. What I think you and I are feeling about Umineko is not just a feeling of letdown as a mystery, but as a story. The Umineko worshiping person might say "you should have seen that it wasn't a mystery!" but I'd argue that even letting the mystery slide, we still wouldn't be satisfied. Why is that? Because we expected more. Not just as a mystery, but as a narrative. We saw glimpses of talent and expected it to shine through the ending. That glimpse of talent was nowhere to be seen in the ending. There was no sense of wonder, sense of amazement. Quote:
And to put it simply, Umineko was not clever enough. |
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2011-01-04, 11:00 | Link #21204 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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2011-01-04, 11:55 | Link #21205 |
hilly
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: M
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I have something to ask.At episode 4,isn't there a scene show that Ange found Sakutaro(based on anime) before go to the island and she call that magic?What do you all think of that scene?Is it Ange think that there are possibility that someone had escaped the island with bringing sakutaro along?Aside for this,I think a new thread "what do you think of this VN" is really needed...This is thread to construct theory and speculation,no identifying and speculating R7 's ability to create VN...
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2011-01-04, 13:32 | Link #21206 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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One is that Sakutaro was a prototype Rosa made for a toy line, and that anti-Rosa or another company picked it up and made a toy line out of it in the future. the other is that a toyline for Sakutaro already existed and that it was something Rosa bought for Maria. That would mean Sakutarou isn't original at all. Quote:
But almost anything goes in the spoilers and speculations thread.
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2011-01-04, 13:40 | Link #21208 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Absolutely not: Erika is on her own. It is just that "a bit like Ange", she is looking for the truth, however ruthless it is, although the reason behind this is arguably different (intellectual rapist, that is).
She is herself, she isn't the product of Ange's psyche.
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2011-01-04, 13:52 | Link #21210 |
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Personally I would have liked the ending to be like episode 4 where Ange and Battler have red and blue truth battle.
Battler then says something Tohya would have or done something that would have gave it away. Ange then figures out amnesia/writer battler in her head. Some more read and blue truth andBattler does the "who am i/im gonna kill you now thing" And Ange is like "you are a the author there nothing unnatural about killing off a character in a story!" Battler then would be like "oh snap you have done well" Then it goes to real world battler in a wheel chair or whatever he say sorry for being a douche lol. Then plays the battler going to golden land scene. |
2011-01-04, 13:58 | Link #21211 | |
hilly
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: M
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2011-01-04, 14:04 | Link #21212 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2011-01-04, 14:11 | Link #21213 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Then again. Why IS she surprised about that? She found lots of other things that they left behind as we see in later episodes. Like Diaries of the other family members for example.
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2011-01-04, 14:11 | Link #21214 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Which goes in line with the definition of "magic" in umineko, and precisely the Golden Truth.
Judoh: Interesting interpretation. Indeed, considering the incident (and thus the gigantic blast radius), I can see why Ange feels it is a miracle. As far as her surprise goes, it is probably because it is something that even Maria herself thought to be lost forever, so heh.
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2011-01-04, 14:34 | Link #21215 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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That stuffed animal is a special stuffed animal
Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only... Yeah, not like the red matters a whole lot anyways but it states that it was made by Rosa, she probably made another one and was gonna give it to her on the island but forgot it on the boat. Kuwabata then took it and left it there. |
2011-01-04, 14:35 | Link #21216 |
hilly
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: M
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So...Is it because it should have not existed?Maybe in Maria 's diary write Rosa had 'killed' Sakutaro,but at day before Rokkenjima incident,Rosa fixed it and want to give Maria but accidentally left it on the boat?Thus,'magic cannot be seen without love'..Well,my intepretation..
Ange may suffered from the accusation of her family 's crazy slaughter and had the thought of everyone in family killed each other..But with the tiny things like Sakutaro had show Ange that there are still love in Rosa and it encourage her to think on the direction 'Uroshimiya family didn't commit any murder' and there was other culprit...My interpretation..what do you all think? |
2011-01-04, 14:44 | Link #21217 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2011-01-04, 14:53 | Link #21220 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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You can also argue that the red truth applied specifically to Maria's fantasy world rather than the real one. That's why Maria couldn't process the second Sakutaro as anything other than a magical resurrection.
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