Does or will east asia get along?

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

The military coup you highlighted is also extremely unlikely, but in the light of Japanese history, I cannot confidently rule it out. It's not hard to imagine a populist leader stirring up nationalist sentiment against some outside power all over again, not when we can still see regular examples of ultra-nationalists denying Japanese war atrocities.

In Germany, it's no longer possible to see a Fourth Reich, because the lessons — and the collective guilt — of the Holocaust have been burnt into the national conscience. That's not the case in Japan.

This is one of the most laughable statements I have heard so far.
I wonder where do you get your information concerning Japanese sentiments, Loonytoon?

Really Japanese are the last people on this planet to pick up a gun to fight a war again.
Japanese KNOWS what happens when being carpet bombed.
Collective guilt?
Please loose the stereotype "Germans are saints that have repented their souls while Japanese still burns secretive desire to dominate the region again", those rhetorics are getting tiresome and stale.
Even if the Japanese government and/or anyone of the upper echelon makes an apology for the epteenth time it's not going to matter because people like yourself are not prepared to listen.
As I wrote before the article 9 of the Japanese constitution declares;

Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

From how I see it, it's not about Japanese repenting, it's about people thinking that they were denied retribution against the Japanese.

[Shadow Kira01]

Originally Posted by Lathdrinor

Western cultures are more based on guilt, probably in no small part due to the Christian influence. If you believe that "God sees all," then there's no point to hiding misdeeds. Either you believe that what you did was right and stick by it, or you don't and confess to it. The Nazis believed in their righteousness and during the Nuremberg trials, some of them laughed in the face of their prosecutors. The rest of Germany, those who saw the facts of what the Nazis did, spoke out and apologized.

Are you sure? When the US nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there wasn't much guilt. Even now, many Americans believed it was necessary under the mask of "justice", claiming that it was the two atomic bombs that ended the war, even though it was more of a scientific test using living human beings as test subjects and also as a threat to their superpower arch-enemy, the USSR.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

Please loose the stereotype "Germans are saints that have repented their souls while Japanese still burns secretive desire to dominate the region again", those rhetorics are getting tiresome and stale.
Even if the Japanese government and/or anyone of the upper echelon makes an apology for the epteenth time it's not going to matter because people like yourself are not prepared to listen.

It's not that people are not listening to the repeated apologies. It's rather that very few people believe that the apologies are sincere.

Japanese have no "secretive desire to dominate the region again"? Oh, please. What's this?

Japanese air force chief sacked for controversial essay

Tokyo (Oct 31, 2008): Japan's defense minister dismissed his air force chief on Friday for writing an essay that claimed the country was not an "aggressor" in World War II and was trapped into getting involved in the conflict by the United States.

In the essay, titled Was Japan an Aggressor Nation?, Tamogami said it was "certainly a false accusation" to say Japan was "an aggressor nation" during World War II.

"The current Chinese government obstinately insists that there was a 'Japanese invasion', but Japan obtained its interests in the Chinese mainland legally under international law through the Sino-Japanese War, the Russo-Japanese War, and so on, and it placed its troops there based on treaties in order to protect those interests," he wrote.

He also claimed life under Japanese occupation was "very moderate" and cited a rise in the population on the Korean peninsula during Japan's 1910-1945 occupation as "proof that Korea under Japanese rule was also prosperous and safe".

Tamogami also claimed that Japan was tricked into attacking Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941, by American President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Japan was "snared in a trap that was very carefully laid by the United States in order to draw Japan into a war," he wrote.

Tamogami's essay won a writing competition organised by a hotel and condominium developer, Apa Group, which published the prize-winning article.

- AP

Sure, the defence minister may have sacked the air-force general, but what's worrying is that his essay could have A) won a prize in the first place; and B) that anyone would even deign to publish it.

Seen in this context, it's very hard for Japan's neighbours to not see the general's sacking as anything more than a face-saving gesture rather than something done out of genuine contrition.

Sure, I would expect some Japanese to feel indignant about how Asia and the rest of the world keeps harping on its inglorious past, because they've taken the whole "WE'RE THE VICTIMS! REMEMBER HIROSHIMA!" myth hook, line and sinker.

So long as these Japanese continue to feel that they're being victimised by the world — in the past, it was the United States, today it's China — the possibility, however extremely remote, of a total abandonment of pacificism could still, in my mind, occur.

Really Japanese are the last people on this planet to pick up a gun to fight a war again. Japanese KNOWS what happens when being carpet bombed.

As I wrote before the article 9 of the Japanese constitution declares:
Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. (2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

Perhaps there has been a misunderstanding in my use of "extremely unlikely" when referring to a military coup. I wasn't being completely sarcastic. As things stand, it is indeed very difficult to imagine how ordinary Japanese could allow ultra-nationalists to take control.

But, supposing the scenario, however incredible it may be, does occur. I wouldn't expect a military junta to let Article 9 survive in its present form.

Already, we can see mumblings about amendments to Article 9 today, albeit to allow Japan assume greater responsibilities in peacekeeping operations. My point is that the legislation is not so sancrosanct that it cannot be amended, especially when elements in the government are determined to do so.

[FateAnomaly]

Well, there is a recent article thats suggest that japanese air force officers do not agree with you.
http://http://www.iht.com/articles/r...-JAPAN-WAR.php

Edit: Ah i c TinyRedLeaf hs posted the same thing

[Lathdrinor]

Originally Posted by Shadow Minato

Are you sure? When the US nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there wasn't much guilt. Even now, many Americans believed it was necessary under the mask of "justice", claiming that it was the two atomic bombs that ended the war, even though it was more of a scientific test using living human beings as test subjects and also as a threat to their superpower arch-enemy, the USSR.

In a guilt-based culture, people are more likely to either justify what they did, or to apologize for it because they find it unjustifiable. In a shame-based culture, people have an additional option and that is to deny it/cover it up. If Americans denied that they ever bombed Japan (even though the evidence is there for all to see), that would make them closer to a shame-based culture.

That said, I didn't speak in absolutes. Cultures are not binary constructs (it's more like a spectrum) and it is entirely possible for a culture to demonstrate attributes of both shame and guilt, and to shift closer to one or the other overtime.

[ZephyrLeanne]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

It's not that people are not listening to the repeated apologies. It's rather that very few people believe that the apologies are sincere.

Japanese have no "secretive desire to dominate the region again"? Oh, please. What's this?

Japanese air force chief sacked for controversial essay



Sure, the defence minister may have sacked the air-force general, but what's worrying is that his essay could have A) won a prize in the first place; and B) that anyone would even deign to publish it.

Seen in this context, it's very hard for Japan's neighbours to not see the general's sacking as anything more than a face-saving gesture rather than something done out of genuine contrition.

Sure, I would expect some Japanese to feel indignant about how Asia and the rest of the world keeps harping on its inglorious past, because they've taken the whole "WE'RE THE VICTIMS! REMEMBER HIROSHIMA!" myth hook, line and sinker.

So long as these Japanese continue to feel that they're being victimised by the world — in the past, it was the United States, today it's China — the possibility, however extremely remote, of a total abandonment of pacificism could still, in my mind, occur.




Perhaps there has been a misunderstanding in my use of "extremely unlikely" when referring to a military coup. I wasn't being completely sarcastic. As things stand, it is indeed very difficult to imagine how ordinary Japanese could allow ultra-nationalists to take control.

But, supposing the scenario, however incredible it may be, does occur. I wouldn't expect a military junta to let Article 9 survive in its present form.

Already, we can see mumblings about amendments to Article 9 today, albeit to allow Japan assume greater responsibilities in peacekeeping operations. My point is that the legislation is not so sancrosanct that it cannot be amended, especially when elements in the government are determined to do so.

You know, 60 years have passed. A whole generation of poeple living during WWII have passed on.

Now the new generation is even worse - they are fed ultra-right information approved by either the schools or MEXT (the Japanese Ministry of Education). What makes you think another war won't happen? Japanese are mainly supprotive of Taiwan either independent or ally with Japan, rather than join China as if China takes over Taiwan, Japan will be even more xenophobic.

Tokyo Metropolitan Governor Shintaro Ishihara used the term sangokujin (derogatory term referring to colonial nationals of Taiwan (Taiwanese aboriginal), Korea and China.) in an April 9, 2000 address to the Japanese Self Defence Forces to suggest that crimes would be committed by illegal stay foreigners in the aftermath of an earthquake.

What makes you people think that a war will not happen? Germany has no reason to do so - it's weak to the point that Germans would usually rather do civil service than join the army. Besides, 26 other EU members are there to stop Germany. If anyone would start a war there, it'd be either Russia or France actually.

However in East Asia, the US would be happy to back up Japan (and South Korea), especially against North Korea. In this case, it would be the Cold War over again, but with China (and ASEAN) sitting back and watching while munching on popcorn since it's not going to be of any help to join. Might as well learn from the Swiss - during WWII they were doing absolutely nothing.

In this case the war would end up like this:

"Allies"
US
UK
Japan
South Korea
Australia
New Zealand

"Reds"
Russia
Some parts of former USSR
North Korea

"No, we don't care at all"
ASEAN 10
China
India

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

It's not that people are not listening to the repeated apologies. It's rather that very few people believe that the apologies are sincere.

Japanese have no "secretive desire to dominate the region again"? Oh, please. What's this?

Japanese air force chief sacked for controversial essay



Sure, the defence minister may have sacked the air-force general, but what's worrying is that his essay could have A) won a prize in the first place; and B) that anyone would even deign to publish it.

Seen in this context, it's very hard for Japan's neighbours to not see the general's sacking as anything more than a face-saving gesture rather than something done out of genuine contrition.

Sure, I would expect some Japanese to feel indignant about how Asia and the rest of the world keeps harping on its inglorious past, because they've taken the whole "WE'RE THE VICTIMS! REMEMBER HIROSHIMA!" myth hook, line and sinker.

So long as these Japanese continue to feel that they're being victimised by the world — in the past, it was the United States, today it's China — the possibility, however extremely remote, of a total abandonment of pacificism could still, in my mind, occur.




Perhaps there has been a misunderstanding in my use of "extremely unlikely" when referring to a military coup. I wasn't being completely sarcastic. As things stand, it is indeed very difficult to imagine how ordinary Japanese could allow ultra-nationalists to take control.

But, supposing the scenario, however incredible it may be, does occur. I wouldn't expect a military junta to let Article 9 survive in its present form.

Already, we can see mumblings about amendments to Article 9 today, albeit to allow Japan assume greater responsibilities in peacekeeping operations. My point is that the legislation is not so sancrosanct that it cannot be amended, especially when if elements in the government are determined to do so.

Some how I knew you would pull that essay out but again you fail to recognize the general response by the general Japanese populous.
You also fail to recognize that within the essay that there were facts written within the essay such as the rise in population after the annexation.
People draws too many sweeping generalization about the past based on listening to the so called victim's opinion and not really doing research.
The Tokyo war tribunal was source of the problem by throwing away evidence that was regarded harmful to the prosecution and took up any and all testimony no matter dubious it may sound.

I also do not have an opinion on what people write, it's a free country and people are allowed to hold whatever opinions they want. The problem with Tamogaimi essay is that he announced it as a high ranking officer in JASDF which was completely unappropriate.
Beyond that, trying to force an opinion to another saying your ideals are wrong in itself is persecution against freedom.


Another thing you are completely mistaking, Japanese never cried we were the victims or remember Hiroshima, it's "No more Hiroshima" making a testament and a prayer towards the world that no people should ever suffer the atomic holocaust.

[Vexx]

Multiple sides to every issue: "Japanese" is not one monolithic group of thinking. You're right in that most Japanese think peacefully about their place in the world. However, you can't deny that there's still an intransigent group of rightwing nationalists and deniers-of-history occupying more than a comforting number of central core government posts in Japan who are trying very hard to chip away at their restrictions. Soooo, the Japanese public needs to be wary of them - not complacent. Those are the ones who make your neighbors jittery and wary about letting bygones be bygones.

Opinions may be "freely held" but if they are based on demonstrated false data, they should not be immune to repercussions.

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

This is one of the most laughable statements I have heard so far.
I wonder where do you get your information concerning Japanese sentiments, Loonytoon?

Really Japanese are the last people on this planet to pick up a gun to fight a war again.
Japanese KNOWS what happens when being carpet bombed.
Collective guilt?
Please loose the stereotype "Germans are saints that have repented their souls while Japanese still burns secretive desire to dominate the region again", those rhetorics are getting tiresome and stale.
Even if the Japanese government and/or anyone of the upper echelon makes an apology for the epteenth time it's not going to matter because people like yourself are not prepared to listen.
As I wrote before the article 9 of the Japanese constitution declares;



From how I see it, it's not about Japanese repenting, it's about people thinking that they were denied retribution against the Japanese.

Beyond that, trying to force an opinion to another saying your ideals are wrong in itself is persecution against freedom.

No, its that "ideal" having to survive critical analysis in the marketplace of ideas. Opinions are not sacrosanct; they are worthless if not defensible.

There's also no denying that some folks in other countries will *never* be happy with any measure of apology and the former-occupiers will always be watched suspiciously.

[Theowne]

Well, you know the oft-repeated quote, "All that is necessary for evil is for good men to do nothing".

Clearly there is a segment of ultra-right wing nationalist people in Japan....but what is the Japanese public's reaction/opinion to them? Is it general tolerance? Passive agreement?

[panzerfan]

I don't think that even the radical right-wings are interested in war at all, given that no matter what, Japan faces a China, and even more so USA, that possesses increasing war production potential on a strategic front which Japan has no way of matching capacity wise. Even at that, there's been an attempted coup I think earlier on in SDF that ended with few men willing to back the attempt at seizing power. (I hope I am remembering this right)

The tension however with China, India, Pakistan... remain interesting to watch.

[ZephyrLeanne]

Originally Posted by Theowne

Well, you know the oft-repeated quote, "All that is necessary for evil is for good men to do nothing".

Clearly there is a segment of ultra-right wing nationalist people in Japan....but what is the Japanese public's reaction/opinion to them? Is it general tolerance? Passive agreement?

Yeah, passive agreement sometimes, otherwise, it's a "whatever they do, we don't care". It's the former that may cause big trouble.

[Cluelessly]

Uhh...not really where the direction of the thread is...but I would like to present another view of what is going on in East Asia that is somewhat outside of politics.

Russia (and commodities/processing nations in general) is an over-leveraged dollar ETF that needs to maintain an overvalued currency. Deleveraging, which caused the deflationary spin into hell, dropped said prices through the floor. The guys that run the country are hit with insane costs as loans belly up. The Russian CB is then forced to bail out these people which forces them to sell treasuries. In order to defend the ruble there must be an internal deflation on the ruble and an external inflation on the USD in order to keep the prices artificially inflated. But due to the CB being forced to bailout internally, it becomes a self reinforcing death spiral. Hence why Russia spend $100bil+ in 4 months attempting this scheme at no avail. This spiral goes on top of the contraction everybody else is feeling with housing, etc.

On the other side of the scale China (and export nations in general) face the other side of the problem. In order to keep the RMB undervalued, it must pour RMB into the FX and purchase treasuries. At the same time they seem to have begun subsidizing exports. All of this has an extremely deflationary effect on the RMB. This is counter productive and much like the above cycle, although it is relatively slower compared to the one caused by an attempt to keep a currency overvalued. This is also partially why they're having such a hard time stimulating internal demand, as this would run counter (again) to the export economy they are trying so desperately to save. China cannot smoothly switch courses at this point in time due to the weaknesses in it's banking system and external effects. All the exits are closed and there's nowhere to run.

Since I hesitate to say all, I'll just say that almost all countries fall somewhere between these two scenarios at this time. A good question would be, who could even finance a war at this point since there is literally nobody to borrow from. Printing is not an option since it's basically the final option before you implode (social upheaval hyperinflation style). No East Asian currency can get away with an inflate away cureall, not even once.

I don't know, just something else I guess. In good and bad times governments plot, but in bad times infrastructure damage and social unrest tend to lead to a regime change.

[Vexx]

With that note most of the east asian markets took another 5% dive on opening a few hours ago after the US stock market hit a five year low on concerns of unemployment and deflation goblins arising. The credit lock up continues to crater even healthy companies.

Can't sell even wonderous cars and stuff if no one can get loans to buy them...

[ZephyrLeanne]

Originally Posted by Cluelessly

Uhh...not really where the direction of the thread is...but I would like to present another view of what is going on in East Asia that is somewhat outside of politics.

Russia (and commodities/processing nations in general) is an over-leveraged dollar ETF that needs to maintain an overvalued currency. Deleveraging, which caused the deflationary spin into hell, dropped said prices through the floor. The guys that run the country are hit with insane costs as loans belly up. The Russian CB is then forced to bail out these people which forces them to sell treasuries. In order to defend the ruble there must be an internal deflation on the ruble and an external inflation on the USD in order to keep the prices artificially inflated. But due to the CB being forced to bailout internally, it becomes a self reinforcing death spiral. Hence why Russia spend $100bil+ in 4 months attempting this scheme at no avail. This spiral goes on top of the contraction everybody else is feeling with housing, etc.

On the other side of the scale China (and export nations in general) face the other side of the problem. In order to keep the RMB undervalued, it must pour RMB into the FX and purchase treasuries. At the same time they seem to have begun subsidizing exports. All of this has an extremely deflationary effect on the RMB. This is counter productive and much like the above cycle, although it is relatively slower compared to the one caused by an attempt to keep a currency overvalued. This is also partially why they're having such a hard time stimulating internal demand, as this would run counter (again) to the export economy they are trying so desperately to save. China cannot smoothly switch courses at this point in time due to the weaknesses in it's banking system and external effects. All the exits are closed and there's nowhere to run.

Since I hesitate to say all, I'll just say that almost all countries fall somewhere between these two scenarios at this time. A good question would be, who could even finance a war at this point since there is literally nobody to borrow from. Printing is not an option since it's basically the final option before you implode (social upheaval hyperinflation style). No East Asian currency can get away with an inflate away cureall, not even once.

I don't know, just something else I guess. In good and bad times governments plot, but in bad times infrastructure damage and social unrest tend to lead to a regime change.

Well, remember that although neither Russia nor China can print money endlessly, the US can. It might well do so soon. Soon the USD and the SGD will be on par. Right now, it's at USD1 - SGD1.4. It was, 5-10 years ago, USD1 - SGD1.8.

Who could even finance a war at this point since there is literally nobody to borrow from.

It's not so much of financing a war that is the question. It's HOW MUCH GAIN can you get out of it. For Japan and SKorea, it's huge. They are at odds (even greater than US at times) with NKorea. For SKorea, it's they would have FINALLY won a war stretching on for 50 years - the Korean War is still technically on, since SKorea didn't sign the treaty.

Printing money isn't a huge problem. When one party captures another land, they have more to sell, to get money. In a war, it's not about money - it's about your weapons. US and Russia have lots of them. To them, war isn't difficult to finance. It's when they rope in their allies (Japan and SKorea for US, NKorea and others for Russia) where the money problem comes in.
Then it becomes a Money No Enough issue. That's why all the nations at the six-party talks are more or less Just Following Law.

In fact, it is when there is not enough money, when a war starts. No, really. Germany after WWI and Treaty of Versailles was a poor nation. That's how Hitler came to power in the first place - by promising a Germany for Germans.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by ShimatheKat

You know, 60 years have passed. A whole generation of poeple living during WWII have passed on.

Now the new generation is even worse - they are fed ultra-right information approved by either the schools or MEXT (the Japanese Ministry of Education).

What makes you think another war won't happen?

I believe you're Japanese? Why do you think your people could start a war, at this point?

While I remain suspicious of the ultra right-wing elements in Japan, by and large, it would take a very calamitous event to trigger their wholesale takeover of power in a generally pacifist country. The closest such incident I can think of at the moment is perhaps a nuclear attack from North Korea, which is again very unlikely at this point.

I am not happy with Japan's selective amnesia of war atrocities, but I do acknowledge that Japan today is very different from Japan yesterday. Conditions today make it very unlikely for Japan to seek dominance through war.

Rather, it would prefer to dominate the region through economic might. This was most probably the case , up until the bubble burst in the 1990s.

However in East Asia, the US would be happy to back up Japan (and South Korea), especially against North Korea. In this case, it would be the Cold War over again, but with China (and ASEAN) sitting back and watching while munching on popcorn since it's not going to be of any help to join.

I'm not so sure if US today is ready for another war, what with its resources already stretched to the limit in Iraq and Afghanistan. If Japan becomes an aggressor (highly unlikely), then I'd expect even less enthusiasm from America.

If such a war does indeed involve North Korea, it's also unlikely that China would take a backseat. China's motivations for supporting North Korea would be broadly similar to why it intervened in the Korean War - it would be loathe to see an anti-China coalition on its border, and would do what it can to prevent it.

Asean, sigh, is a toothless tiger. Its principle of non-intervention in its members' internal affairs make it powerless within its own area of influence, let alone beyond South-east Asia.

[ZephyrLeanne]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I believe you're Japanese? Why do you think your people could start a war, at this point?

While I remain suspicious of the ultra right-wing elements in Japan, by and large, it would take a very calamitous event to trigger their wholesale takeover of power in a generally pacifist country. The closest such incident I can think of at the moment is perhaps a nuclear attack from North Korea, which is again very unlikely at this point.

I am not happy with Japan's selective amnesia of war atrocities, but I do acknowledge that Japan today is very different from Japan yesterday. Conditions today make it very unlikely for Japan to seek dominance through war.

Rather, it would prefer to dominate the region through economic might. This was most probably the case for Japan, up until the 1990s.

No, I'm not a Japanese. I'm a ethinc Chinese in Japan actually, who spend all his childhood in either HK or Singapore. (Hey, Japanese people don't have great English - witness Tomoyo) I'm freaking afraid of my life actually after the air force incident. I might have to resort to moving to Singapore permanently, where I normally spend my winter. Like now.

I'm not so sure if US today is ready for another war, what with its resources already stretched to the limit in Iraq and Afghanistan. If Japan becomes an aggressor (highly unlikely), then I'd expect even less enthusiasm from America.

Oh? What if it's about NKorea? That's different, huh?

If such a war does indeed involve North Korea, it's also unlikely that China would take a backseat. China's motivations for supporting North Korea would be broadly similar to why it intervened in the Korean War - it would be loathe to see an anti-China coalition on its border, and would do what it can to prevent it.

NKorea isn't as important as US these days to China.

Asean, sigh, is a toothless tiger. Its principle of non-intervention in its members' internal affairs make it powerless even within its area of influence, let alone beyond South-east Asia.

Well, ASEAN is there to watch and (probably) sigh. Australia and NZ will get involved, believe me. Those angmoh/gaijin nations.

[Theowne]

Those angmoh/gaijin nations

Was that necessary?

[ZephyrLeanne]

Originally Posted by Theowne

Was that necessary?

Well, no-one believes I'm not a Japanese, so I HAVE to use Hokkien. Just to show you I'm ethnic Chinese.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by ShimatheKat

No, I'm not a Japanese. I'm a ethinc Chinese in Japan actually, who spend all his childhood in either HK or Singapore. (Hey, Japanese people don't have great English - witness Tomoyo) I'm freaking afraid of my life actually after the air force incident. I might have to resort to moving to Singapore permanently, where I normally spend my winter. Like now.

Meh... that'd be a severe over-reaction to "fear for your life" because of that incident. The best thing the japanese people can do is shine really bright lights on these cockroaches and make fun of their annoying megaphone-vans blaring away.

When my wife and I drive through or visit certain areas of the US, we're *wary* and alert (inter-racial marriages still don't sit well in some parts) but "fear" is the mind-killer.

[Shadow Kira01]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Multiple sides to every issue: "Japanese" is not one monolithic group of thinking. You're right in that most Japanese think peacefully about their place in the world. However, you can't deny that there's still an intransigent group of rightwing nationalists and deniers-of-history occupying more than a comforting number of central core government posts in Japan who are trying very hard to chip away at their restrictions. Soooo, the Japanese public needs to be wary of them - not complacent. Those are the ones who make your neighbors jittery and wary about letting bygones be bygones.

In other words, you are implying that the Japanese public should be more concerned about the beliefs of nationalists rather than the military buildup of neighboring nations, the nukes they are producing, and also the issue of ignoring the abductees' will of returning? This is rather interesting.

Originally Posted by ShimatheKat

NKorea isn't as important as US these days to China.

In fact, there is a possibilty that North Korea might test their nukes on China, considering how their relations are at the six-party talks. North Korea intends on having an one-on-one dialogue with the United States, rather than the usual six-party talks which is deeming problematic for the rest of the six-party talk nations.