Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Really, the only reason the eclipse people are 'broken' is because the TSAB is a magical society and anti-magic has come to bite them in the rear for it. Remove the anti magic, and they only have regeneration and whatever unique power they have. Still very powerful, but nowhere near as broken. We already know a good headshot can kill them, for one.

They're so broken... I don't know how they can beat someone who can shrug off what 99% of the characters use and regenerate from the 1%. (Kidding... it's 90% and 10%).

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Laith

Doesn't stop them from being ruthless killers tho

"Ruthless" don't necessary apply to all fo them, Dieci isn't by any means "ruthless" even if she is indeed a murderer she's sensible enough to question the meaning of their action and even feel worry for the well being of a little girl. Nove also isn't a gloating cold killer, if anything, she seemed to be overworking herself in order to be of some use to her father, rather than any genuine "ruthlesness" towards her enemies. The temr only apply to some of them.

The Wolkenritter probably where more genuinely ruthless because they probably got desensitized from the feeling of killing people after hundreds of years of doing it. Instead they start to gather regret and feelings of guilt for being trapped in a hopeless cycle of death and destruction.

The Huckebein have their own handfull of reasons for killing people but they seem to be a lot less troubled by it by the aformentioned two groups. They have freedom to be selective over their targets and don't have to worry of a superior power forcing them to make descicions and aren't ignorant of the rules of society. Unlike the Numbers and the Wolkenritter, the Huckebein family embraced their fate as killers with open arms and made a whole new philosophy around it instead of questioning the morality of their actions. They seem ruthless to common society but for them is just how the world works.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Really, the only reason the eclipse people are 'broken' is because the TSAB is a magical society and anti-magic has come to bite them in the rear for it. Remove the anti magic, and they only have regeneration and whatever unique power they have. Still very powerful, but nowhere near as broken. We already know a good headshot can kill them, for one.

We know a good headshot can kill a "Fake Huckebein" as Veyron showed to us, Dego and Marty's regeneration powers were far below the level of the likes of Cypha and Tohma.

Not every Eclipse Driver is all broken, only the Huckebein xD!

[Craxuan]

Lol. Actually I asked that question while theorizing personally that none of them will die. At all. Maybe one or two will attempt a heroic death as Thoma screams like a girl, but I expect to see them popping out in the epilogues travelling around worlds and steal food and stuff.

I once even half imagined that the virus is actually a sentient entity which happened to take a very similar form to Reinforce and dear Hayate swearing to all gods that she would save it this time for sure, but there's no way things would turn out that sappy right? ... Right?

Oh. M. G.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by bhl88

They're so broken... I don't know how they can beat someone who can shrug off what 99% of the characters use and regenerate from the 1%. (Kidding... it's 90% and 10%).

Change tactics?

Really, the main problem is that they counter magic. Alter tactics and presto, you can hurt them again. Heck, they're even easier to hurt than characters like Reinforce or Yami, who really could block 99% of everything and regenerate from... well... everything.

[Justin_Brett]

The numbers were. The Wolkies were. Informed ability be damned, their clothing never stopped us from taking them seriously before. I don't see how someone chewing bubblegum (which, again, is a delinquent thing) suddenly makes this different.

I wouldn't say the Numbers had silly clothing; they were uniform and something similar to what special operatives might wear. It fit. And there was at least a little justification for the Wolkenritter's silly outfits. These guys just have kinda weird fashion sense, which isn't what I pictured when Cypha was talking them up.

That said, it's not nearly as bad as re-using that much of Vivio's design so blatantly. Still can't believe that.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Change tactics?

Really, the main problem is that they counter magic. Alter tactics and presto, you can hurt them again. Heck, they're even easier to hurt than characters like Reinforce or Yami, who really could block 99% of everything and regenerate from... well... everything.

Comparing the Hucks with Reinforce Eins or Yami is a bit unfair, those aren't just broken characters, they're practically Physical Gods xDU

About change tactics, that's what exactly the AEC-Equipement was for and they succeded in hurting them but ...surprise surprise, they can shrug off physical damage like nothing xDU. Heck, even classic Signum managed to hurt Cypha severly only to discover that her efforts are futile xDU

The Hucks are at least as broken as Cell xD

[Justin_Brett]

They didn't so much as change tactics as get new weapons that do the same stuff the Devices do, but worse. It'd be nice if they fought differently, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[LostSome]

lol ! I`m pretty sure Nanoha`s fashion sense screams "White Devil".
What about Quattro ?
Thoma`s goofy face ruins any chance of his outfit to look scary.

Are the Grandels "real" drivers ?
Maybe they are bad ones of Curren`s "children".

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Comparing the Hucks with Reinforce Eins or Yami is a bit unfair, those aren't just broken characters, they're practically Physical Gods xDU

About change tactics, that's what exactly the AEC-Equipement was for and they succeded in hurting them but ...surprise surprise, they can shrug off physical damage like nothing xDU. Heck, even classic Signum managed to hurt Cypha severly only to discover that her efforts are futile xDU

The Hucks are at least as broken as Cell xD

Yes I do know that comparing the Hucks with Eins is unfair, which is my whole point. It's fine for those two to be Gods Walking Among Men (incidentally, the materials can regenerate from pretty much anything as well), but for some reason the Hucks being powerful is... bad?

I mean, from where I'm standing their regeneration offsets their lack of shields and barriers. Without the regeneration, they'd have been dead a dozen times over by now. Even with their anti-magic. Regeneration's pretty much all that's kept them in the fight.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I wouldn't say the Numbers had silly clothing; they were uniform and something similar to what special operatives might wear. It fit. And there was at least a little justification for the Wolkenritter's silly outfits. These guys just have kinda weird fashion sense, which isn't what I pictured when Cypha was talking them up.

I don't see anything wrong with their fashion. It's seriously boggling my mind what's wrong with it. They're clothes, they do what they're designed to do.

Seriously, what did you have in mind when Cypha described them? Spikes and chains? Psychopaths with hockymasks?

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That said, it's not nearly as bad as re-using that much of Vivio's design so blatantly. Still can't believe that.

Yeah, that one I definitely agree with. That's just... ugh.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

They didn't so much as change tactics as get new weapons that do the same stuff the Devices do, but worse. It'd be nice if they fought differently, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Er, these things do different things. Whatever the devices output is still magical damage, as shown by Cypha canceling Signum's fire blasts. Even though it's, y'know, fire, it's still magical fire, and thus succeptible to cancellation. The new weapons turn magic into something completely non-magic, which is about as big a change in the magical society Mid as you can get without just outright grabbing regular guns (which begs the question why they don't just do that if they're already toeing the line this close).

[WarpObscura]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

On that same note, a lot of the character designs they've been using just don't work with the kinds of villains this season is supposed to have. It's not so noticeable with the Huckebein, where really only Stella and Arnage have that problem, but we were told the Grendel Family was really scary and dangerous last chapter, and now they look like this. One of them's blowing bubblegum!

Why Stella and Arnage?

Originally Posted by Keroko

The numbers were. The Wolkies were. Informed ability be damned, their clothing never stopped us from taking them seriously before. I don't see how someone chewing bubblegum (which, again, is a delinquent thing) suddenly makes this different.

I have my own concerns for these new characters, but their clothing is by fear the least among them.

She's gonna kick arse and chew bubblegum... and now she's all outta gum.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Er, these things do different things. Whatever the devices output is still magical damage, as shown by Cypha canceling Signum's fire blasts. Even though it's, y'know, fire, it's still magical fire, and thus succeptible to cancellation. The new weapons turn magic into something completely non-magic, which is about as big a change in the magical society Mid as you can get without just outright grabbing regular guns (which begs the question why they don't just do that if they're already toeing the line this close).

Values issues, perhaps. I see it as like how the Japanese tiptoe about nukes.

By the way, that's not how you're supposed to use begging the question.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Er, these things do different things. Whatever the devices output is still magical damage, as shown by Cypha canceling Signum's fire blasts. Even though it's, y'know, fire, it's still magical fire, and thus succeptible to cancellation.

Now that we touched that part, how Agito and Signum managed to defend from Tohma's very real reacted attacks in Ch. 20 without any noticeable upgrade xD?

I love how consistency bounces back and forth in this manga xDU

[Key Board]

pictures are out



that Grendel family girl ... looks exactly like adult Vivio

that can't be a coincidence

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by Key Board

pictures are out



that Grendel family girl ... looks exactly like adult Vivio

that can't be a coincidence

Well alot of the girls are alike besides simply changing some features between them.

She does look like Vivio but not sure I would put stock in that not being coincidence but then she could be some sorta clone or something.

Altho I'm pretty sure adult Vivio is not that ....eh stacked

[Craxuan]

No no, breast size is different so it's not a replica of Vivio or something. Breast size is everything.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Craxuan

No no, breast size is different so it's not a replica of Vivio or something. Breast size is everything.

By the way, breast size is very inconsistent in Nanoha xDU

Look at Signum in A's anime, then in A's manga, then in StrikerS, then in Force and then in MOVIE 2nd A's xD

...and she supposedly don't age xDU

[ZeroIchiNi]

Yeah it looks like Vivio. But I'm going to bet that no one in the story will point it out.
Excuse:Points to Subaru - Nove, different color hair.

So it's just a one panel introduction? no spoken dialog?

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

By the way, breast size is very inconsistent in Nanoha xDU

Look at Signum in A's anime, then in A's manga, then in StrikerS, then in Force and then in MOVIE 2nd A's xD

...and she supposedly don't age xDU

Well it's always kinda been like that across the board with alot of series but then you can't really compare as anime to manga then to anime then back manga again, theres obviously gonna be some inconsistency regarding character designs if you say it like that.
Unless you had the same people working on all of them then you could say theres some inconsistency but from what I understand thats not the case

And well tbh character designs in the Nanoha verse haven't been wildly different from one to the next, mostly for the females.
But I never really cared that they weren't, I still love em all!

[Justin_Brett]

Seriously, what did you have in mind when Cypha described them? Spikes and chains? Psychopaths with hockymasks?

Well, they're called the Grendel Family, so maybe some kind of sophisticated criminal group, instead of a gang of teenaged punks?

Er, these things do different things. Whatever the devices output is still magical damage, as shown by Cypha canceling Signum's fire blasts. Even though it's, y'know, fire, it's still magical fire, and thus succeptible to cancellation. The new weapons turn magic into something completely non-magic, which is about as big a change in the magical society Mid as you can get without just outright grabbing regular guns (which begs the question why they don't just do that if they're already toeing the line this close).

On the technical side of things, but they're designed to do the same things their wielders have always done. Nanoha's got a gun, Vita has a big hammer. They just don't do as many things on their own.

And yeah, it's almost like the AEC Weapons are redundant and kinda pointless. Imagine.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

Altho I'm pretty sure adult Vivio is not that ....eh stacked

>adult Vivio
>not that stacked

what are you talking about

Still, I wouldn't put my money on her being anyway related to Vivio.

Because given that 'THIS.IS.NANOHA!', her being related to Vivio means that she's going to end up as Nanoha's 2nd daughter~u.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

Well it's always kinda been like that across the board with alot of series but then you can't really compare as anime to manga then to anime then back manga again, theres obviously gonna be some inconsistency regarding character designs if you say it like that.
Unless you had the same people working on all of them then you could say theres some inconsistency but from what I understand thats not the case

...and i didn't even mentioned the official art which some times is inconsistent even among images that are released togheter xDU

But yeah, it can be excused that the different mangas are drawed by different people(save the A's and StrikerS manga, tough i can forginve that since on Signum's first appearances the concept of her character's look hasn't been fully stablished yet xD).

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

And well tbh character designs in the Nanoha verse haven't been wildly different from one to the next, mostly for the females.
But I never really cared that they weren't, I still love em all!

I like them too, but at least there's usually some good details that helpsdifferentiate one character from another. The case of Vivio's clone in Force 22 is something a bit uncommon to see xD