True Tears - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by mikesince83

The Ending: Honestly, it’s tough for me to see a weak ending coming from this series considering how good it’s been to this point. I have my reservations as to the possible outcome, but like the rest of you I’ll have to wait for 12 to see how they pan out.

Did you mean ep 13 Good review btw.

I think the twist that Noe and Shin saw themselves as Jibeta was really well done. All this time, we were looking at the special chicken Raigomaru eventhough Jibeta was just as special as Raigomaru. Poor chicken has no clue the people around him are throwing all this symbolism at him. Based on the previews, I also think Shin is going to bring out the best in Noe next episode. My bet is not only Noe, but Hiromi is also in for a change.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

And, like I said, I really don't think it has anything to this with this massive shipping war that brewed around here; it's about Raigomaru and Jibeta; it's about Noe, Shinichirou, Hiromi, and Aiko; it's about flying and crying; it's about what it means and what it takes to finally release one's True Tears. That's a powerful picture, and much more interesting than "the final score".

I'm most interested to find out how they weave the story of Raigomaru/Jibeta into the ending.

I imagine it'll be something like episode 11 where we had a lot of it happening alongside the episode, so it should be intriguing to see where it actually goes.

[ForgedGlory]

I don't mean to be an ass.. but was I the only one that laughed when Noe jumped off the tree? I mean.. lol, they could've at least done a dramatic slow-mo or something, but it was like watching a blooper video with someone falling out of a tree. XD

On a side note, Shinichiro looks pimp in his samurai gear.

[Guardian Enzo]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk of the third potential ending - Shin X nobody (that's nobody, not Nobuse, mind you!). Everyone including myself has pretty much assumed - bar a brief spurt of fantastical Ai-chan support in the middle - that Shin ends up with either Hiromi or Noe. But, in watching 12, it appears to me that isn't a lock. There are enough roadblocks in either relationship, that I could easily see a "non-ending" ending where nobody is ready to be with anybody, and things are left rather muddied.

Mind you, I hope not - I've been pulling for Hiromi since the first episode and I'll be disappointed with anything else, even more so with no firm resolution, but it could happen. I felt relatively confident in a Hiromi ending until all signs in 12 pointed to Noe, but I think that's one last (effective) feint by the writers to throw us off the trail. TBH, I think a Shin x Noe ending would be pretty much totally inconsistent with the plot and character development of the entire series up to this point. Effectively, much of the first 11 episodes would have to be tossed out the window as a big "Never mind!" if that happened. But this show has surprised me before, so who knows.

[c^2]

From the beginning, I have been delighted with this series, and it definitely had the beginnings of a masterpiece, perhaps to become a defining work of the genre. Virtually every aspect of the show has been brilliant, and the characters very real and likable, despite their flaws. Somewhere around episode 11 though, I have lost nearly all enthusiasm for this show, and I finally realized why. It comes down to one thing really, and sadly, I think that the show is beyond repair at this point.

At the start, Noe was a great character, but as the show continues, I have grown increasingly weary of the chicken nonsense. At this point, the metaphor has gotten completely out of hand. People are not chickens, and Noe has been reduced from eccentric to a mere nutcase. After reading pages upon pages here about the various interpretations of the metaphor, it finally dawned on me. If it is so incomprehensible, it is simply a lousy metaphor. By using it as the foundation of the story, the results are obvious. A metaphor should be used as subtle element which fits into the story like in Blue Drop, not something so forced which literally turns people into chickens, and equates human emotions to that of fowl.

The wreckage of this lousy metaphor litters an otherwise beautiful drama. It is far too pervasive, and it no longer feels like the characters are acting according to their own will, but rather to conform to the twisted and increasingly absurd plot. Far from increasing anticipation with the shocking plot twists and cliffhangers, they have achieved exactly the opposite. After ruining Noe's character, my only thought at the end of this episode was, "God, I hope she is dead." Unfortunately, I don't think they will spare us from whatever random melodrama is likely to follow.

As for Shin's "doing everything properly," ha! His recent actions make no sense based on the characters as developed, and the present situation. They appear to be motivated purely by the author's desire to introduce more uncertainly and melodrama, rather than following the existing story to a logical conclusion. Whichever way it goes, they have destroyed Shin's character, in the process. His recent actions hurt everyone around him, and only serve to invite hate for his character.

In particular, not talking to Noe at the pier when he had the chance, and then suddenly having an urgent need to chase her after the festival while treating Hiromi like a pebble on the road. Whatever his intentions are, he could have spared a few words for her. While the situation is still not clear to the viewers, it is now clear to Shin. It is no longer the convoluted mess it once was, and he can make no acceptable excuse for his total lack of consideration of other peoples' feelings.

While I have had no interest in shipping, at this point I must favor a Shin/Noe ending. Why? Well, since they have ruined both characters, I wouldn't want to inflict them on anyone else. Poor Hiromi. While she is still showing some weakness, she recognizes her faults, and continues to grow as a character. Even considering her faults, she has never acted out of malice, and remains the only character of the three that I still like in the end. What a shame.

[Theowne]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Mind you, I hope not - I've been pulling for Hiromi since the first episode and I'll be disappointed with anything else, even more so with no firm resolution, but it could happen. I felt relatively confident in a Hiromi ending until all signs in 12 pointed to Noe, but I think that's one last (effective) feint by the writers to throw us off the trail. TBH, I think a Shin x Noe ending would be pretty much totally inconsistent with the plot and character development of the entire series up to this point. Effectively, much of the first 11 episodes would have to be tossed out the window as a big "Never mind!" if that happened. But this show has surprised me before, so who knows.

I would have agreed with you but to step back and look at the entire plot objectively, essentially the Shin+Hiromi relationship has been relatively static ever since the childhood memory with the brief lull during the "Shin's mother's lie" period. On the other hand, the development has clearly showed the effect and impact by Noe's appearance, on both the plotlines and characters, which is finally recognized fully by Shin. After thinking about it, I don't believe that a Noe ending would be inconsistent at all.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by c^2

At the start, Noe was a great character, but as the show continues, I have grown increasingly weary of the chicken nonsense. At this point, the metaphor has gotten completely out of hand. People are not chickens, and Noe has been reduced from eccentric to a mere nutcase. After reading pages upon pages here about the various interpretations of the metaphor, it finally dawned on me. If it is so incomprehensible, it is simply a lousy metaphor. By using it as the foundation of the story, the results are obvious. A metaphor should be used as subtle element which fits into the story like in Blue Drop, not something so forced which literally turns people into chickens, and equates human emotions to that of fowl.

While I disagree with some of your post, I think you hit the nail on the head with that point. I know we're all supposed to love Noe and all, but frankly the last couple of eps I've more or less concluded that she's basically a nutcase. I suppose it shows Shinichiro's compassionate side if he feels sorry for her, but really, she isn't anyone who should be in a romantic relationship with anybody. What, Shin is supposed to declare his love for her because she took her chicken fantasies literally and jumped out of a tree? Sorry, but that's a rather pathetic act if you ask me. I do feel badly for the girl - she lost her parents and beloved grandmother, her brother is a perv, and life has generally treated her rather roughly. But what she needs isn't a boyfriend, it's a therapist.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Theowne

I would have agreed with you but to step back and look at the entire plot objectively, essentially the Shin+Hiromi relationship has been relatively static ever since the childhood memory with the brief lull during the "Shin's mother's lie" period. On the other hand, the development has clearly showed the effect and impact by Noe's appearance, on both the plotlines and characters, which is finally recognized fully by Shin. After thinking about it, I don't believe that a Noe ending would be inconsistent at all.

I disagree completely and you will see why if the ending goes to Noe (unless 13 is really well done in that aspect) in a Good or Bad Ending thread similar to the one in the KGNE sub forum. I assure you I have hardly overlooked anything at this stage unlike some Noe fans who seem to think Shin was thinking of Noe when he kissed Hiromi (from the time it focuses on Hiromi's lips and up Noe is no longer in his mind) and didn't even notice how happy he was when he arrived home afterwards in 11.

I'm not going to waste 1 hour typing up an essay on why it would be an inconsistent when it might not even happen yet. There is good reason why people (I'm obviously not talking about myself here) who are neutral and like both girls thinks a Noe ending will equal inconsistency based on the first 12 episodes.

[ForgedGlory]

*sigh, I guess I was the only one that Laughed at Noe jumping off the tree, oh well.

Anyway, I'm going have to lean towards a "bad" ending... things just isn't going to end up good with the way things are going between the three right now.

It still bothers me that Aiko called Nobuse... she should've stayed single to sort things out and whatever happens afterwards, happens. IMO, its still too soon for her to move on.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by ForgedGlory

It still bothers me that Aiko called Nobuse... she should've stayed single to sort things out and whatever happens afterwards, happens. IMO, its still too soon for her to move on.

She is still single, they still in the friend Zone. It doesn't matter anymore because even though Aiko seems to still have lingering feelings, she is moving on as we saw she stopped staying for Shin practices in episode 11. Nobuse's chances seem to be getting better as he replaced Shin as the guy that Aiko ask for help, it seems Aiko is the type of girl that will fall in love for the guy that helps her with the store.

[Stretch5920]

I don't see how a Noe end would be inconsistent. As far as I am concerned both girls have equal chance and can work with the story. After all Noe is the only girl who thinks about what Shin wants and cheered him on to actually get off his ass and put some effort into things he wants to do. Maybe one of these things will be to confess to hiromi, or maybe he will fall for the girl who supported him. Either way I don't really care as Shin is one of the worst male harem leads I've seen and Aiko got the decent guy.

[jaisrh]

After thinking about it, I think that the whole Raigomaru and Jibeta thing from Noe's perspective is kind of bizarre from a more impartial viewpoint. I can actually relate a bit to Shin using them as metaphors as opposed to Noe actually physically trying to fly because she equates humans to chicken (does'nt Noe know that chicken can't actually fly anyway, just like humans?). She did take the metaphor too literally when she decided to jump.

I think it underscores Noe's need to grow up by regaining her ability to cry. Her emotional and mental development has been stunted ever since she "lost" the ability to cry. She is sometimes perceived as being mature while being considered strong as mentioned by a couple of the other characters yet I think that perception could just be a side effect of her not being able to cry. Jun himself said that Noe used to cry all the time until her grandmother "took" her tears away. So will Noe become more "normal" instead of being eccentric after she regains her tears and grows up?

[Matt122005]

My prediciton is that he will run to her, think she is dead, will cry, she will open her eyes and collect the tears, shocking him. She will use them and will finally regain her ability to cry. Than she will tell him that she is not who resides in his true heart, but Hiromi is.

^Thus the title and the drama can be concluded.

But although thats possible, anything is possible.

However, they have built Hiromi up way to much to not set her up with Shin. GO HIROMI!

But also go Noe, who is an awesome friend to Shin!

[Sorrow-K]

Ok, I found this episode interesting, but it's pretty difficult to take seriously. You know what my biggest gripe about this series is? It seems convinced that characters constantly doing 180s is character development. Ok, technically it is, but it's not very good character development.

The show still gets all the minor details right, though. Calling the wine (or whatever drink it was, I can't remember) "Tears of the Three Views" was very clever. I just wish they handled the more important things like characters as competently.

Originally Posted by be0wulf

This episode only served to remind me of how much of an "average" harem anime True Tears really is. Shin's feelings have been jumping back and forth throughout the series, and I guess next episode will be a "I suddenly had an epiphany" type of episode, where he'll finally realize where his true feelings lay. How disappointing.

This would be about the most trite and cliched ending they could come up, but it's unfortunately also looking like the most likely. You know what's funny, though. Shinichiro has had several epiphanies during the series. None of them have transpired into any substantial changes in him or lingered with him for more than two episodes. He literally says things, and then forgets them shortly after. If this is how the story will end, it'll be meaningless, because he's demonstrated that he has no capacity for following through. It'll be like, "so why is this time different from the last time you had a similar epiphany?"

I'm going to be very interested in seeing the autopsies of this anime after it's over (I have no intention of doing one myself), to see where exactly people think this series started going wrong. It started so incredibly well, but it's degenerated into rather contrived melodrama (yes, yes, nowhere near as bad as Myself; Yourself, but that show sets the bar). I know Ascaloth has already pinpointed ep 9, and I'd say that's ballpark. I think it was about the time where Hiromi started becoming Shinichiro's mom.

By the way, if you can say "I am a [insert name here] shipper", don't bother. Shippers have completely drowned out what little intelligent commentary there has been in this thread, and that's been the case for the last two or so eps as well. I am a Tomoyo shipper. SHINICHIROXTOMOYO 4EVR RAWWR! Can everyone else see why this is stupid?

[Sinestra]

The funny thing is and i have had this feeling for a while now. Noe really doesnt need Shin as a matter a fact Noe doesnt need anyone at the moment. The girl has so many things she needs to work out for her self before she even thinks about a relationship which is why i feel the whole flying thing has been in regards to Noe all along.

A lot of people thought that the look in his eye in episode 12 was his realizing he loves Noe I have watched that scene 9 times and i dont feel it was a romantic look. Personally i think during his dance when he saw Noe watching he realized 2 things. The first being maybe he cant fly but that was ok for him he didnt mind. At the same time looking at Noe he realized she is the one that can fly but she needs do it without him i feel this is what he was going to tell Noe. I just didnt see that look as romantic and i always thought that the answers Shin was looking for were come about during his dance.

Then again i could be completely wrong and all of this is all for not but oh well.

[Theowne]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

A lot of people thought that the look in his eye in episode 12 was his realizing he loves Noe I have watched that scene 9 times and i dont feel it was a romantic look. Personally i think during his dance when he saw Noe watching he realized 2 things. The first being maybe he cant fly but that was ok for him he didnt mind. At the same time looking at Noe he realized she is the one that can fly but she needs do it without him i feel this is what he was going to tell Noe. I just didnt see that look as romantic and i always thought that the answers Shin was looking for were come about during his dance.

But then, why lie to Hiromi about going to see her? Surely telling her the truth would have been much more preferable if he knew he was just planning to help her fly without him?

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Theowne

But then, why lie to Hiromi about going to see her? Surely telling her the truth would have been much more preferable if he knew he was just planning to help her fly without him?

Im not sure why he said what he said i dont even think he understands himself. Personally i felt that scene was not needed there was really no point in it. Hiromi asked if he was upset and he said no. But he looked urgent to see and talk to Noe so we do know whatever it is its important. Maybe he felt he needed to clear things up with Noe first before he talked to Hiromi i dunno but Shin is not known for doing things the logical way. Like i stated i could be off base with it but the more i watched the scene it did not give me romantic vibes i just didnt feel it. The person i was routing for is already out of the game so im not shipping towards Hiromi. Im just following the clues as best i can. Then theres the question of Jun leaving is he going to leave Noe by herself as far as i can tell he is her only living family. The screens for the finally episode the way they were laid out tended to lean towards Hiromi more. I dunno i dont care who wins as long as it makes sense. But im fairly confident about the Noe being able to fly if anything she is the one who needs it most.

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Theowne

But then, why lie to Hiromi about going to see her? Surely telling her the truth would have been much more preferable if he knew he was just planning to help her fly without him?

And where would the suspense be if he did that! I expect the events in 11 and 12 will get critically hammered no matter who wins after this series is done since it's ignoring common sense to keep viewers on their toes and guessing.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Damn the writers are smart.First I thought the Shin wil choose Hiromi because it seems like it was obvious since the beginning but then Shin looks like he's gonna choose Noe. WTF is goin on? There will be one broken heart and i'm guessing he's gonna choose Noe because where's the fun if he's gonna choose Hiromi because everybody thought he's gonna choose her for sure but if he choose Noe everybody will be completely shock by this move.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by SkoolRumble4Ya

Damn the writers are smart.First I thought the Shin wil choose Hiromi because it seems like it was obvious since the beginning but then Shin looks like he's gonna choose Noe. WTF is goin on? There will be one broken heart and i'm guessing he's gonna choose Noe because where's the fun if he's gonna choose Hiromi because everybody thought he's gonna choose her for sure but if he choose Noe everybody will be completely shock by this move.

I would say some people would be shocked and others would not. TT is very heavy on symbolism, which is why some people have taken the extra time to examin the book that Shin is making because the book obviously tells us whats Shin is feeling as he creates it and thats one more look into his mentality when dealing certain situations. A lot of people are under the assumption he is going to chose Noe because her reflection in his eye while dancing and because he left Hiromi to go off and talk to Noe. The honest truth we dont know what he wants to say to her its most shippers who are up in arms about whats going on at the moment. Remember Shin is not the best at handling things hes clumsy about it. The situation with him and Noe has not been resolved which is why they need screen time together. Its not really a matter of fun this is love story and consistency is what makes TT damn good. If i had to guess from all the evidence that we have at the moment including Shins picture book and the early screen shots of episode 13 id say TT is going to hold true to what Shin said in episode 1 he loves Hiromi. But there is still a chance for Noe both girls will work as long as its done tastefully and not rushed.

Take a look at some of the post done by relentlessflame, cloudninja and Sorrow-K for more in depth info.