Aquarion EVOL - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Bern-san]

Great episode, the love confession and Fudo's scream were the best moments

I hope next episode focuses on Sazanka, during the episode where she spent the day with Cayenne and Shrade after the wall broke I was hoping for a love triangle with them (since Shrade in that episode said something that made me have that impression). Oh well.

Since I haven't seen the original Aquarion it was good to see their past-selves (or whatever they are).

What is the name of the song which plays during the flashback? (if it was mentioned in this thread I missed it)

[Vena]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Nice to see it cleared up, that the vision that both Kagura and Zessica saw were fake (I totally called it). Thought this does open up the possibility that Zessica is either being used by Mykage or has some sort of relation so Kagura.

Its also pretty interesting how Mikono displays recognition towards the memories, but did not towards Kagura or his calling her Slyvie. Which also establishes that this is the TV series Aquarion, and means that she isn't being manipulated by Mykage, but it does explain why Mykage wants her.

Previous episode... would seem to disagree? Mikono also has the same vision of Apollon and Sylvie under the setting sun, its only for a brief second but it most certainly is there. Zessica is the only one who's actually completely out of the loop with her vision because hers honestly comes out of f***ing nowhere and has an entirely different use in the plot: making her worry about Amata, whereas, contrary to what you said in the second paragraph, Mikono does react to Kagura calling them destined by: having the same vision as Kagura, finding familiarity in his eyes, and, if you want to count it, overlapping someone with Kagura once again this time it being Apollon. The last one is probably irrelevant as it was just her trying to put a face to the name of Apollon.

That said, there's some funky shenanigans going on as we still have no idea why Mikono went into full blown love-overdrive in Ep.5/6, or why she finds Kagura so familiar, or why her jealousy causes the Aquarion to show us scenes of the past love...
... Or why Fudo did nothing to chastise her this episode. Or why Forbidden Love pops up again in his monologue, or who's seeking Truth and who's seeking Pure Love. Truth seems pretty easily tossed up to Amata but Pure Love is a bit more vague as Zessica already found her pure love, even if it is unrequited, and its Mikono's jealousy that causes the Aquarion to show the past...

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Vena

Previous episode... would seem to disagree? Mikono also has the same vision of Apollon and Sylvie under the setting sun, its only for a brief second but it most certainly is there. Zessica is the only one who's actually completely out of the loop with her vision because hers honestly comes out of f***ing nowhere and has an entirely different use in the plot: making her worry about Amata, whereas, contrary to what you said in the second paragraph, Mikono does react to Kagura calling them destined by: having the same vision as Kagura, finding familiarity in his eyes, and, if you want to count it, overlapping someone with Kagura once again this time it being Apollon. The last one is probably irrelevant as it was just her trying to put a face to the name of Apollon.

That said, there's some funky shenanigans going on as we still have no idea why Mikono went into full blown love-overdrive in Ep.5/6, or why she finds Kagura so familiar, or why her jealousy causes the Aquarion to show us scenes of the past love...
... Or why Fudo did nothing to chastise her this episode. Or why Forbidden Love pops up again in his monologue, or who's seeking Truth and who's seeking Pure Love. Truth seems pretty easily tossed up to Amata but Pure Love is a bit more vague as Zessica already found her pure love, even if it is unrequited, and its Mikono's jealousy that causes the Aquarion to show the past...

yes but in that case she was told to remember it, I wouldn't be surprised if the "vision" she saw was due to her powers, connecting her with Kagura.

Lets also not forget that Amata's true appearance is that he has red hair and yellow eyes (similar to that of Apollo's), and also that Mikono not only mistook Amata for Kagura, but she also Kagura from Amata. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Amata's appearance was switched with that of Kagura's. Then again the two of them look alike anyway.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Amata is the one seeking pure love and Mikono is the one seeking the truth. In which case you can say that Mikono sought the truth and Aquarion showed it to her.

[miketyson]

Also, shouldn't Amata be really worried? Has one of Andy's jokes ever *not* turned out to be mostly true?

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by miketyson

Also, shouldn't Amata be really worried? Has one of Andy's jokes ever *not* turned out to be mostly true?

He is worried but he has decided to fight fate.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

yes but in that case she was told to remember it, I wouldn't be surprised if the "vision" she saw was due to her powers, connecting her with Kagura.

Ok, her powers are not a *trivialize every detail* trump card. She's shown to understand feelings and to be able to bring people together with her powers of connection, not have visions of a past life, or find people's features strangely familiar. You find someone to be familiar -> you have an odd vision of the past with you and him -> you've reacted to said person very strongly in the past before your powers had even awoken -> occam's razor.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Lets also not forget that Amata's true appearance is that he has red hair and yellow eyes (similar to that of Apollo's), and also that Mikono not only mistook Amata for Kagura, but she also Kagura from Amata. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Amata's appearance was switched with that of Kagura's. Then again the two of them look alike anyway.

I'm still not sold on this. Amata has, currently, the eye color of his mother, no matter what Mykage might say or claim, basic genetics/biology would be inclined to accept and believe that Amata would have his mother's (and father's) features.

Moreover, by Kagura's profile, he was found by Mykage on Altair. That seems to put at least some holes in the whole... they split off because of Mykage shenanigans.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Amata is the one seeking pure love and Mikono is the one seeking the truth. In which case you can say that Mikono sought the truth and Aquarion showed it to her.

Who knows?

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Vena

Ok, her powers are not a *trivialize every detail* trump card. She's shown to understand feelings and to be able to bring people together with her powers of connection, not have visions of a past life, or find people's features strangely familiar. You find someone to be familiar -> you have an odd vision of the past with you and him -> you've reacted to said person very strongly in the past before your powers had even awoken -> occam's razor.

But we were outright told that that vision was false in this episode and should be disregarded. Mikono may have reacted strongly to him in the past, but she never saw that "vision" until after she awakened her powers and was basically told to see it, especially when she was looking for answers on why Kagura was behaving the way he was. We've seen that her powers do have the ability to connect people to the dead in the previous episode so its not completely out there to say that she subconsciously used it to find out what Kagura was talking about.

I'm still not sold on this. Amata has, currently, the eye color of his mother, no matter what Mykage might say or claim, basic genetics/biology would be inclined to accept and believe that Amata would have his mother's (and father's) features.

Moreover, by Kagura's profile, he was found by Mykage on Altair. That seems to put at least some holes in the whole... they split off because of Mykage shenanigans.

Mykage probably changed it to that color so as to not call attention to it. Besides isn't the whole purple eyes thing a signal of Mykage's involvement?

Kagura being "found" by Mykage in Altair, is just fishy to me, because nothing is stopping Mykage from lying and saying that he "found" Kagura, and faking his history so as to not raise suspicion on his little pawn.

[ookamigirl]

Altair is slowly falling apart...
Guess that will speed up their advances on Earth & Mikono even more.
The training session was very interesting ^^
The real story of 12 000 years ago was really nice.
Great episode.

[teelatsuki]

The one seeking pure love is Zessica while the one Seeking the truth is Mikono, that should be clear as the vision of the past only showed when Mikono screamed at Amata for saying that he was happy for Zessica's feelings (kind of like saying "hey I tough you liked me!").

Honestly the only thing preventing Amata from confessing again is himself, back when he first tried he backed away being sensible of Mikono's fear but nothing prevents him now from trying again!!


Also just because Amata is the nice guy don't try to brush off that he is also stalkerish, sure he is not as violent as Kagura but still, as the history progresses Kagura starts to seem less of a monster (he still has a lot against him) and Amata is looking more like a Stalker... which I hope is not the intention of the creators.

As for the chapter I really hope Zessica finds some kind of reward for her bravery even if is not in Amata answering her feelings, seriously she repeated her confession right away!!

[Vena]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

But we were outright told that that vision was false in this episode and should be disregarded. Mikono may have reacted strongly to him in the past, but she never saw that "vision" until after she awakened her powers and was basically told to see it, especially when she was looking for answers on why Kagura was behaving the way he was. We've seen that her powers do have the ability to connect people to the dead in the previous episode so its not completely out there to say that she subconsciously used it to find out what Kagura was talking about.

The sequence of events, in the last episode, are completely unlike any *connection* powers we've seen from her (and again, we've never had *visions* from her connect power... so for this to be justified the creators would genuinely be pulling shit out of their ass for *one* scene). She sees the vision and remarks about how familiar Kagura's eyes are to her. This does not even remotely tie into any other showing of her powers. Moreover, if her powers just *worked* that way, she'd have had her revelation in Ep. 13 when Kagura had her embraced because she was pretty damn confused then.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Mykage probably changed it to that color so as to not call attention to it. Besides isn't the whole purple eyes thing a signal of Mykage's involvement?

No, Mykage's control is a completely different color. Amata has, quite definitively, the same color eyes as his mother.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Kagura being "found" by Mykage in Altair, is just fishy to me, because nothing is stopping Mykage from lying and saying that he "found" Kagura, and faking his history so as to not raise suspicion on his little pawn.

I'm just telling you the details as they have been presented, you may be right or you may be twisting and turning them every which way.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Vena

The sequence of events, in the last episode, are completely unlike any *connection* powers we've seen from her (and again, we've never had *visions* from her connect power... so for this to be justified the creators would genuinely be pulling shit out of their ass for *one* scene). She sees the vision and remarks about how familiar Kagura's eyes are to her. This does not even remotely tie into any other showing of her powers. Moreover, if her powers just *worked* that way, she'd have had her revelation in Ep. 13 when Kagura had her embraced because she was pretty damn confused then.

This is Aquarion its pulls shit out of its ass on a daily basis. Though its not out of it to say that her powers grew in episode 14, but she didn't stop actually have time to stop to talk to Kagura without him scaring the beejeus out of her until episode 15.
This episode pretty much established that the "vision" was false anyway so it ultimately doesn't amount to anything to reference it.

No, Mykage's control is a completely different color. Amata has, quite definitively, the same color eyes as his mother.

But it still calls into question why it was stated that his eye color is supposed to be different.

I'm just telling you the details as they have been presented, you may be right or you may be twisting and turning them every which way.

And I'm saying that Mykage is the most untrustworthy character in this series.

[evil|plushie]

And then Kawamori trolls everyone by hinting in the next episode the vision is true -_- Cue epic trollface

Actually, I'm really really suspicious of Gen/Fudo/zen whatever he's calling himself now. Mykage is pretty much a bad guy (or so it seems) but Fudo basically acts like Mykage at times. But without the random killings.

[mayumi]

i think it was pretty clear that it was zessica who was searching for "true love" considering she has the "love" in the reading. it is also said zessica has pure feelings while amata has a infatuation/crush. zessica is a love newbie so ofcourse she is searching for someone who she can be in love with. while amata is already in love is searching for the truth about the past but it can also be mikono.

[evil|plushie]

so zessica's need for true love punched a hole into the space time continuum and showed them the past of Apollon and Sylvia. That would seem to indicate that Zessica is one of the two

[Vena]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

This is Aquarion its pulls shit out of its ass on a daily basis. Though its not out of it to say that her powers grew in episode 14, but she didn't stop actually have time to stop to talk to Kagura without him scaring the beejeus out of her until episode 15.
This episode pretty much established that the "vision" was false anyway so it ultimately doesn't amount to anything to reference it.

Irregardless, the whole point was that three people shared the vision. Whether or not you want to accept that it did indeed happen to Mikono is up to you, but the rest of the details remain. She has familiarity with Kagura that stretches to the start of this show, and she seemingly makes the connection between him and Apollo in this episode.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

But it still calls into question why it was stated that his eye color is supposed to be different.

And I'm saying that Mykage is the most untrustworthy character in this series.

Ok, look at those two sentences. Who states that Amata was golden haired and golden eyed? Mykage. Who did you say is the least trustworthy character in this show? Mykage.

If you're going to accept one thing that Mykage says... why do you not accept the other thing he says? Consistency. It's not like Amata has some alien eye color that cannot even be tied to his mother, he has his mother's eyes.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

so zessica's need for true love punched a hole into the space time continuum and showed them the past of Apollon and Sylvia. That would seem to indicate that Zessica is one of the two

Actually the visions didn't start until Mikono's status changed to jealously.

Originally Posted by Vena

Irregardless, the whole point was that three people shared the vision. Whether or not you want to accept that it did indeed happen to Mikono is up to you, but the rest of the details remain. She has familiarity with Kagura that stretches to the start of this show, and she seemingly makes the connection between him and Apollo in this episode.

But the point still stands that the "vision" was false, and taken out of a movie, I think the bigger question here is where the "vision" came from. Because of the fact that the "vision" is false it calls into question why they are seeing it in the first place, but it isn't a sign of a connection.

Ok, look at those two sentences. Who states that Amata was golden haired and golden eyed? Mykage. Who did you say is the least trustworthy character in this show? Mykage.

If you're going to accept one thing that Mykage says... why do you not accept the other thing he says? Consistency. It's not like Amata has some alien eye color that cannot even be tied to his mother, he has his mother's eyes.

yes but he's talking to a person who may know Amata, though he hasn't seen him recently, so in the case where he was talking to Izumo if he said that Amata had purple eyes then its likely that it would have set off even more warning signs with Izumo, or push him into action.

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

And then Kawamori trolls everyone by hinting in the next episode the vision is true -_- Cue epic trollface

Actually, I'm really really suspicious of Gen/Fudo/zen whatever he's calling himself now. Mykage is pretty much a bad guy (or so it seems) but Fudo basically acts like Mykage at times. But without the random killings.

I think Mykage's goal could be saving altea actually. Just that he knows how to do it and that is views on the matter are different from Izumo.

[mayumi]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

so zessica's need for true love punched a hole into the space time continuum and showed them the past of Apollon and Sylvia. That would seem to indicate that Zessica is one of the two

zessica's need for true love distorted the space and time while mikono jealously started the mugen punch because it has always been mikono who has been associated with mugen punch while it was zessica who is associated with twisting. so technically you can say zessica-mikono's powers work together. they can actually be the same person.

[evil|plushie]

Well, either way, the one who's searching for true love is probably the one who's related to apollo and sylvia since it led to the visions of the two and their love.

And I somehow suspect it's not Amata since his true love target hasn't seemed to waver from Mikono so I doubt that he would have a strong enough desire to call out the visions. Which means it's probably Zessica or Mikono. Right now, it seems more likely it's Zessica.

Then could Amata be the one who's searching for the truth? Which also led to the visions of the past and his realisation at the end. Or was it Mikono? I suspect it's more likely to be Amata

[Vena]

Originally Posted by mayumi

i think it was pretty clear that it was zessica who was searching for "true love" considering she has the "love" in the reading. it is also said zessica has pure feelings while amata has a infatuation/crush. zessica is a love newbie so ofcourse she is searching for someone who she can be in love with. while amata is already in love is searching for the truth about the past but it can also be mikono.

The reaction, of punching through spacetime, only occurs after Mikono's sign flips to jelly. It makes me think that its Zessica/Mikono causing the visions, and that Amata is out of the loop.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

But the point still stands that the "vision" was false, and taken out of a movie, I think the bigger question here is where the "vision" came from. Because of the fact that the "vision" is false it calls into question why they are seeing it in the first place, but it isn't a sign of a connection.

The connections I was talking about are everything aside from the vision: smell taken straight from the end of the OS and even shown this episode, love-electrocution reaction, familiarity with eyes, etc. Vision or no,t this stuff has been in the show since before Mykage was even awake.

Originally Posted by wisteria233

yes but he's talking to a person who may know Amata, though he hasn't seen him recently, so in the case where he was talking to Izumo if he said that Amata had purple eyes then its likely that it would have set off even more warning signs with Izumo, or push him into action.

I'm pretty sure Izumo had a direct feed of Jin's information from the fight last fight for Jin in his Gnis, and knows what Amata looks like since that data came up when Jin was fighting. There's some inconsistency here...

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

Well, either way, the one who's searching for true love is probably the one who's related to apollo and sylvia since it led to the visions of the two and their love.

And I somehow suspect it's not Amata since his true love target hasn't seemed to waver from Mikono so I doubt that he would have a strong enough desire to call out the visions. Which means it's probably Zessica or Mikono. Right now, it seems more likely it's Zessica.

Then could Amata be the one who's searching for the truth? Which also led to the visions of the past and his realisation at the end. Or was it Mikono? I suspect it's more likely to be Amata

Zessica's love hasn't wavered either... so why would she be bringing about visions of lovers that don't concern her? She's made it pretty clearly that she really is in love with Amata, I don't think there's any confusion for her. The only person confused about feelings is Mikono (jealousy and her reactions with Kagura), and the one seeking truth would really seem to be Amata.