2012-01-12, 04:24 | Link #41 | |
Absolute Haruhist!
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Age: 36
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Drawing, unlike real life, character proportions are not bound by physics, you can draw them as exaggerated and impossible as you want, making design choices unlimited. Even in anime context, does this tsundere character have to be a human? She could be a catgirl, elf, vampire etc, giving them different ears, eyes, fangs, clothing, hairstyle, body shape, appendages. Again, there are unlimited factors one can consider when designing characters. There is no pretense in the eyes of the designer, its more like the lack of sensitivity from audience. In this case anime, an extremely limited type of animation in terms of character design, where characters must have sharp chins and big eyes. But still anime characters can be draw in countless ways, but the final design decision is chosen to look the most appealing to the general anime audience. My argument with you is against your claim that there is a limited amount of ways to draw characters in all of cartooning. Get Gobelins to draw Kyoani characters, Gainax to draw Pixar characters, Aardman to draw Bones characters, Sunrise to draw Disney characters etc., you'll get completely different designs for everything. If characters can be made to look similar so easily, there won't be complains about adaptations and remakes of anything.
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2012-01-12, 04:59 | Link #42 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Yet, if you ask me about beer, I would wax lyrical about the differences between lager and real ale, and could easily go on and on about whether a pint of Kilkenny is better than a pint of Boddingtons. My point? I'm with C.A. on this one. There are differences between the various character designs listed as similar in this thread, and the more familiar one is with character design in general — and with the Japanese approach to animation in particular — the more apparent the differences become. I can empathise with the view that these differences are so minute that they don't matter. But try telling that to aficionados of any kind of gadget you can think of, from video cards to headphones. Any one of the die-hard lovers will tell you that a difference is a difference. Suddenly, I'm reminded of a local parody of Thai salespeople who say: "Same, same but not the same." |
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2012-01-12, 11:23 | Link #43 |
reading #hikaributts
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Unless we are talking about different characters drawn by the same artist(s) (especially the case with clamp, Toriyama Akira and Takahashi Rumiko) characters will never look exactly the same unless it's a parody, tribute or just a blatant copy or ripoff of an existing character.
But then again this topic is actually about looking similar, not about characters who look exactly the same. Characters looking similar to eachother does not mean that they have all the same traits. An example would be that some people who see short haired characters with a ribbon hairbands instantly link them with Haruhi, even if these characters don't exactly look the same. Like Yurippe from Angel Beats or Takanashi Sora from Papa no Iukoto wo Kikinasai. |
2012-01-12, 13:59 | Link #44 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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Heh... just my last point - "same" or "identical" does not equal "similar"
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Very few (none?) of these comparisions are *identical*, but "similar" is exactly the right word to use.
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2012-01-12, 14:25 | Link #45 |
Absolute Haruhist!
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Well I guess its up to the sensitivity of the audience as I mentioned.
Alot of the comparisons here only have one or two actual similarity, same hair colour, same hair style for example. We can't even factor in face shape, because everyone has 'similar' sharp chins, or big eyes and dot noses. 'Similar' in open inverted commas because actually to me, even the sharp chins are very different, the angle of the chin and height of cheeks can affect a character's maturity and personality. But even so, just a single difference or change in appearance can affect alot. If Haruhi had thick eyebrows, Kyon has long hair, Mikuru is taller than Kyon, Yuki has pink hair and Itsuki is bald, the dynamics of the entire story would change.
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2012-01-12, 15:47 | Link #46 | |
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An example why i disagree with that statement are live action adaptions of anime or mangas. While some characters don't even look close to their manga/anime counterpart , the story itself was not that effected (of course we have take into account the limitations of live action). |
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2012-01-13, 03:50 | Link #49 | |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Age: 49
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Take Batman, for example. When George Clooney dons the cowl and cloak, we get the "campy" version of the caped crusader popular in the 60s and 70s. With Christian Bale in the role, however, the character suddenly becomes, at last, the Dark Knight of the 1990s and beyond. In anime, this "casting" process begins with character design. From what I understand, it's usually a give-and-take process between the artist and the writer. They have a certain personality in mind, and start the design from a range of common character templates, that is, the stereotypical forms that lead to perceptions of "similarities" that everyone here is pointing out. It's through iterative reworking that a "unique" character design is born. Like C.A., I feel there are sufficient differences in many of the designs highlighted in this thread for them to be considered different, rather than "similar" or even alike. Perhaps as a kind of creator myself, I feel it's a bit rude — if not insulting — to suggest that "the designs are the same" when, to me, it seems to be more a case of people not putting in enough effort to see and feel the differences than there being actual similarities in the art. It's a bit like saying that The Song of Ice and Fire novels by George R. R. Martin are the same as the The Lord of the Rings novels by J.R.R. Tolkien because, you know, they are fantasy novels written on the same epic scale. To say that would be utterly disrespectful to Martin. |
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2012-01-13, 08:10 | Link #50 | ||
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edit: i just remembered something that also supports my previous statement. In "Batman Forever" and "Batman and Robin", Robin was played by the same actor: Chris O'Donnell. Yet in "Batman and Robin", Robin degraded into more of an idiot due to the campier story and script. Let's take an example of the Saikono live action movie. The actress who plays Chise doesn't look close to her manga counterpart, but that did not change the story in any way. Though the movie did change lots of events, but that was due to the time constraints of being a movie not how the characters looked. Quote:
Your comparison with the song of ice and fire and lord of the rings was rather shallow. That's comparing True Tears, Clannad, EF a tale of memories and Mashiro iro Symphony and claiming that those series are similar. Besides that there is romance and it has school settings, those series have little in common. However series like Death note and Lost+Brain have much more in common, - both series have a main character who are highly intelligent with special powers - both main characters want to revolutionize the world using their powers - both main characters uses people as mere pawns to achieve their goals - both are chased down by a similar intelligent person - both main characters failed at the end Last edited by hyl; 2012-01-13 at 09:01. |
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2012-01-14, 17:28 | Link #51 | |
Absolute Haruhist!
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Age: 36
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Let's use my example of Mikuru being taller than Kyon. This as well as the other examples were thought up quite quickly and randomly, not exactly very well thought design decisions. But lets see what kind of changes would this bring to the character dynamics, interactions and how the story will need to be rewritten. Mikuru being taller than Kyon is probably the biggest change, if she's taller than Kyon, would Kyon still have the same level of attraction towards her? Kyon would still find her pleasing to his eyes, but will not be as attracted simply because she's taller than him. Mikuru would have super model proportions and would be 'out of his league'. Originally Mikuru's petit frame is also why she is easily bullied by Haruhi, would a larger frame make her more confident and less of a pushover? By changing Mikuru's vulnerability and attractiveness, it would change the outcomes of various events that happened in the original story. This would mean that it would change the objective of the 'higher ups' that sent Mikuru to the past. Because Kyon would be less attracted to Mikuru and Haruhi not going to push Mikuru around as much, there would be a much lesser chance of Mikuru driving a wedge between Kyon and Haruhi. In order to make Mikuru as significant to the story as she was originally, she would need to sent from the future for another purpose. If I were to include pink hair Yuki and bald Itsuki, there would be even more changes. Would pink Yuki be as transparent and have as little presence as the original? She would probably attract much more attention and easier to spot, the Data Entities probably sent for a more engaging purpose that surveillance. Especially when all normal people have normal coloured hair, Yuki's pink hair would make her very outstanding, Kyon may find her more interesting and approachable. If Itsuki was bald, he would be less of a bishi and would tick off Kyon less. Kyon would probably find him more of just a brainy guy than obnoxious. EDIT: About your argument on movie casting. There's a reason why casting actors is a very big decision when making a film, actors have to fall into a set of criteria. In the case of Batman, all he needs for his appearance is a square jaw, since the rest is covered in costume. And Robin just needs to be shorter than Batman. If Batman has a sharp chin and Robin is taller, we know something is terribly wrong. There are lots of people who can work as Batman, but much more who can't. Like Batman has to be caucasian, this means at least 75% of the world can't be Batman.
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Last edited by C.A.; 2012-01-14 at 17:48. |
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2012-01-14, 20:16 | Link #52 |
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Location: Planet Earth
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When Ayanami Rei of Evangellion made her first appearance in the TV back in 1990s, many said she resembled O-Yuki from Urusei Yatsura in many ways. Of course, Evangellion fanatics burned anyone who said this on the stake during 1996.
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2012-01-15, 10:01 | Link #53 | |||||
reading #hikaributts
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Like in anime, not every twin tailed person is a Tsundere, not every old man has to be either a pervert or some kind of martial arts master or not every childhood friend has to be a bishoujo. You are linking personality and looks too much together. Like i have said before, you looking at things at a way too shallow perspective. Quote:
Also finding a women in japan who are taller than Kyon (who probably has a height of around 170cm )is quite slim. No matter how you look , you will still get pushed around if you still act docile. Haruhi is still the kind of person who still bully her if Mikuru won't stand up to her (which she won't due her personality) Quote:
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edit: almost forgot about the blue haired Asakura or the also green haired Kimidori. Those are also not a common colours. Also about your statement about bald Itsuki being less of an bishi, are you implying that bald people are less attractive? Quote:
I doubt you have a broad knowledge about movies, seeing that you probably have never heard of those lower budget foreign moves. Like the "Turkish batman", "Indian Superman", "Turkish Spiderman" or the "Japanese Spiderman" . Eventhough these are not hollywood productions, it still won't change the fact that people who are not caucasian can be casted in American comic book adaptions. Last edited by hyl; 2012-01-15 at 10:16. |
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2012-01-15, 14:48 | Link #54 | |
Absolute Haruhist!
Artist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 36
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I'm not going to argue with you much, nor do I have the time to do so, which is why I've been keeping my posts as general as I can. The fact that you think completely different from what I do about the characters proves my point that appearance is a very significant factor. Viewpoints Uta Hagen's Nine Questions 12 principles of animation I'm an animator, we have to learn acting in order to create realistic characters, we need to know how the physical architecture of a character affects the spatial relationship between him and other characters and objects. We need to know what kind of gesture a character of certain physique and personality has. What kind of topology in his walk, whats the differences in the stride of a man, a woman, tall, short, fat, skinny, or when he's angry, sad, happy? How would a happy fat man walk down a rocky path while carrying a crate of beer and listening to his ipod look like? What's the tempo of his walk? What's the shape he creates and how would he affect other people when he is walking pass them, what kind of kinesthetic response would he have if he bumps into someone else? Replace the character with others and they will all act differently, no 2 people in the world will have the same behaviour, I haven't even touched on the character's personality. Just a character's appearance and physique can determine how he will act and how others will respond to him. I can go on elaborating more, in fact it will take several months of classes of talking, but I simply have no time nowadays. You can think I'm shallow or anything, but I'd rather put more of my effort into my work.
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2012-01-15, 15:36 | Link #55 | |||
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Ikari Shinji still wouldn't be less of a whiner if he had blond hair or Asuka would still be cocky, rash etc. if she would had short Hair. Quote:
Last edited by hyl; 2012-01-15 at 15:47. |
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2012-04-12, 10:11 | Link #59 |
this is how its done
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Light yagami-
http://images1.fanpop.com/images/pho...53-371-371.jpg Seto kaiba http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_im...andthewind.jpg Soichiro yagami http://www.usaanime.us/HeroTourney/Pics/Soichiro.jpg Gozaburo kaiba http://images-mediawiki-sites.theful...3116064261.jpg Riko mine from aria the scarlet ammo http://static.zerochan.net/full/07/06/592807.jpg Miu takanashi from papa no iukoto wo kikinasai http://static.zerochan.net/full/13/20/991013.jpg Medaka kurokami from medaka box http://sugoi.animeblogs.ru/wp-conten...aka-box-03.jpg Rias gremory from high school dxd http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aXZUUreFEM...ory%2BRias.jpg
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