Aldnoah.Zero - generic discussion thread

[Syaokura]

Not sure where to post this, but might as well do it here.

Images

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And here's the translation from largerdonuts @ tumblr:

“The bird is finally freed from his cage ”

Inaho and Slaine, while having the same important feelings towards Asseylum, recognized each other as enemies ever since their first meeting. Since that moment the both boys considered each other as their greatest rival. But they concluded everything into “peace” at the end. Following the princess’ wish of saving Slaine, Inaho risked his life to reach to him, and on the other hand, when Slaine heard that the princess cared about him and wanted him to be saved, he, for the first time was released from the “everything is for the princess’s sake” curse. Slaine and Inaho who fought each other with their lives finally started walking next to each other. The princess’ light of hope that she gave them by betting on her own future shines brightly on the new starting line that Inaho and Slaine stand at.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Syaokura

Not sure where to post this, but might as well do it here.

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

And here's the translation from largerdonuts @ tumblr:

“The bird is finally freed from his cage ”

Inaho and Slaine, while having the same important feelings towards Asseylum, recognized each other as enemies ever since their first meeting. Since that moment the both boys considered each other as their greatest rival. But they concluded everything into “peace” at the end. Following the princess’ wish of saving Slaine, Inaho risked his life to reach to him, and on the other hand, when Slaine heard that the princess cared about him and wanted him to be saved, he, for the first time was released from the “everything is for the princess’s sake” curse. Slaine and Inaho who fought each other with their lives finally started walking next to each other. The princess’ light of hope that she gave them by betting on her own future shines brightly on the new starting line that Inaho and Slaine stand at.

So it's official now! My take on Slaine's ending is correct after all.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

So it's official now! My take on Slaine's ending is correct after all.

I must admit that I am surprised at how many Western viewers have taken Slaine's 'fate' as such a negative one... I've seen similar reactions in the Japanese fandom, but most of the comments I saw, especially once a little time had passed, do suggest that a greater proportion of Japanese viewers noticed how his eyes were clear again...

Makes me wonder if

Spoiler for Macross Frontier spoiler:

there was a reaction similar to what happened with the end of the Macross Frontier movies, where many viewers didn't pick up on the slightly hopeful clues left in the ending credits until their second or third viewing...

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by karice67

I must admit that I am surprised at how many Western viewers have taken Slaine's 'fate' as such a negative one... I've seen similar reactions in the Japanese fandom, but most of the comments I saw, especially once a little time had passed, do suggest that a greater proportion of Japanese viewers noticed how his eyes were clear again...

Makes me wonder if

Spoiler for Macross Frontier spoiler:

there was a reaction similar to what happened with the end of the Macross Frontier movies, where many viewers didn't pick up on the slightly hopeful clues left in the ending credits until their second or third viewing...

Of course his eyes are clear again. He did not have to atone for all the bad things he did. Whatever his motivation was, karma should have bit him in the ass at the end.

This is not an uncommon ending for most Japanese anime/manga/light novel. The antagonist, if not killed outright, will in the end somehow "gets away with it", as we say here in the West. He does not face any repercussions or punishment for the actions he took. No matter how grave those actions maybe.

It is probably cultural but of course it is just a guess on my part as I cannot say that I am familiar with Japanese culture. I read about their brutality in WW II though and their general lack of sense of guilt or apology to those that were their victims. There are still countries/groups of people still waiting on the much needed apology.

[Syaokura]

If someone can translate this, I'll be eternally grateful. That piece comes from Animedia, I think.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Armando99

Of course his eyes are clear again. He did not have to atone for all the bad things he did. Whatever his motivation was, karma should have bit him in the ass at the end.

No, he's still paying for it. What he wanted prior to Inaho's visit - death - would have been a different way of paying for it, but IMO, that would have been the easy way out for him. Dying is nothing compared to having to live with the consequences of the choices one has made.

Originally Posted by Armando99

This is not an uncommon ending for most Japanese anime/manga/light novel. The antagonist, if not killed outright, will in the end somehow "gets away with it", as we say here in the West. He does not face any repercussions or punishment for the actions he took. No matter how grave those actions maybe.

It is probably cultural but of course it is just a guess on my part as I cannot say that I am familiar with Japanese culture. I read about their brutality in WW II though and their general lack of sense of guilt or apology to those that were their victims. There are still countries/groups of people still waiting on the much needed apology.

Did you know that Japan has actually apologised numerous times over the years? That the majority of people do indeed feel a strong sense of responsibility, and that what you're describing applies only to a small proportion of the society?

I do not want to start a debate here about what you have written. Instead, I'd like to suggest that you try and read up on the Japanese perspective -- especially in terms of the legacies of what the US did during the Occupation, such as effectively pardoning hundreds of people who'd been suspected or even convicted of war crimes, including the grandfather of current PM Abe. I'm not saying I don't understand the Western perspective, or those of China and the Koreas - I study and teach about Japan's post-war politics and international relations. But it's definitely more complicated and less one-sided than you have represented it to be.

@Syaokura
That bit basically confirms that it was Asseylum wanting Slaine to be saved that released him from the "chains of misery" that had bound him until then. Well...it was a description of Slaine's ending written by an Animedia writer rather than a direct comment from Aoki et al, but it fits with everything else I've heard or read that they said...

I'm kind of busy for the next week or so, but I'll see if I can find time to translate from the Newtype interview, which I do have. Unfortunately, Animedia sold out on amazon before I managed to put in my order (I had hoped it would be restocked once it was actually released, but no such luck...) so I was wondering if anyone would mind sharing that special please? I'd really really appreciate it... m(_ _ )m

[leelee85]

Bottom line is that Slaine started Series one as a servant and ended series 2 as a Rear Admiral (yes its a Aaron Hernandez joke).

[The 48th Ronin]

So, what's next for this show?

[leelee85]

Originally Posted by Captain Orange

So, what's next for this show?

I guess It's all over. Slaine is locked up for I don't know how long while in the public eyes he's KIA.

[Cloudedmind]

OK, here are the A/Z scans from the May issue of Animedia. My copy finally showed up yesterday. There's 16 pages and quite a bit of info.

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[karice67]

^
Many thanks once again! and my apologies for the delay. The Animedia article has already been summarised/translated elsewhere, but since I was working on this…

From Animedia (Aoki x Nagano interview):

• The ending where Asseylum marries someone for the sake of peace between Earth and Mars was in Urobuchi’s original plan for the series. However, what would happen to Slaine and Inaho in the end wasn’t set. The person she married had to have a sufficient level of political power, but it didn’t matter who it was. Mazuurka didn’t have that kind of power, and they didn’t want to marry her to some middle-aged count, so it ended up being Cruhteo’s son.
• What Aoki had in mind at first was that Inaho would become so obsessed with saving Asseylum that he would isolate himself from everyone around him; Slaine would similarly isolate himself through his struggle for power. Rejected by society, they’d fall to earth and hide themselves in a corner of the world. But that was considered too dark for a TV series, so they changed it to something a bit more hopeful.
• Even though the interplanetary war has ended with respective governments signing peace/friendship treaties, there remain Orbital Knights that did not listen to Asseylum’s call for peace, so isolated areas of conflict are yet to be solved. Basically, although they’d followed the Emperor, they were also nobles with a great deal of autonomy, so there were some who wanted to keep the lands they’d claimed.
• The trade between Earth and Mars has Vers providing Aldnoah technology in return for the resources that they need, so it’s of equal value to both. At the very least, the life of people on Mars will improve (Nagano) whilst the energy problems that Earth has will see some positive developments.
• Re: the small number of deaths — basically, they didn’t want to kill people if it did nothing for the story. The three deaths that really had meaning were Okojo, Cruhteo and Saazbaum.
• Thinking up super robots powers was a lot of fun for the staff, who used it to pay homage to classic mecha anime. Towards the end, however, they just decided to throw out whatever they thought was fun, which resulted in Barouhcruz’s mech: “let’s go with Yo yos this time! (Laughs)”

And with regards to what I’m sure everyone’s most concerned about :

We were really motivated by all the Valentine chocolate you sent to the characters. The person who received the most was Inaho, followed by Slaine. Cruhteo and Marito also received some. (Nagano)

From Newtype (Aoki):

• The first part of the NT interview was again about the original idea that Aoki had for Slaine and Inaho. But he also notes that the outline of Slaine’s story was covered in Urobuchi’s original plan. The idea for the character is similar to the protagonists of The Godfather, Scarface and Carlito’s Way: characters that are never able to obtain what they are trying to get their hands on, they’re ‘bad’ but plagued by sorrow / drawn to misery. Slaine is in the wrong, and he's regarded as a villain by the world. However, it’s because of his inexperience that his pure and kind nature sent him down this misguided path. (A ‘sympathetic villain’, if you will. -karice)
• He does also note that Inaho didn’t exactly get a ‘good’ ending either, since the person he had tried so hard to save turned around and asked him to save Slaine (though she wouldn’t have known about all the bad blood between them, I suppose -karice). And he has just a recording of that meeting, not an actual memory of his own — it’s something that Takayama would write.
• The last thing of note in this one is that Urobuchi’s ending for Asseylum gave him vibes of Roman Holiday, where the bird in a cage experiences freedom for one day, but then returns to the cage of its own accord.

Highlights from Tokushima Machiasobi Stage event on Monday (2015-05-04):
(NB: I got this info. from live tweets from someone who attended...)

• Apparently, there was a big meeting around the time of episode 2 -- an all-nighter -- about how they would end the series.
• In response to an audience question, Aoki confirms that Gen's plan had Slaine taking Asseylum away at the end of Ep. 12 -- they just 'made it tricky'.
• Responding to another question, Aoki mentions that he has his own idea for a continuation…but there are no plans to do one at this point. Kurosaki suggests that they might do something for a ‘live drama’ at the EXTRA DAY event in June.
• There’s also something that they instructed the attendees not to tweet b/c it’s a secret...and I’m really curious about it. More might be revealed at the June event too, so I’m personally waiting for that... -karice
  

I’ll see if there’s anything else from Animedia that I want to summarise (I found Ono’s interview hilarious, personally), but I might not really have the time…

[Syaokura]

Thank you so much for the summaries, Karice! And yes, please please please translate/summarize OnoKen's interview.

ETA: This came from the OnoKen interview and whoever translated it on Tumblr don't know how to word this part: ハークライトがいたからこそ起こせる行動がたくさんあったと思います

Harklight something, something... yeah.

[karice67]

I might have to do that...a few things to correct so that Asseylum doesn't get bashed unnecessarily yet again...

That bit was Ono saying that he thinks "it's because Harklight was there (supporting him) that Slaine was able to do many of the things he did."

[Allium]

Wow, thanks for the translation, karice! Those were some interesting points from Aoki and Nagano, particularly the parts about Urobuchi's initial scenarios and the insight into Inaho, Slaine and Asseylum.

[DevilHighDxD]

Inaho got more chocolates ! Didn't worry Inaho, you still have your Yuki-nee.

[00 raizer]

they can say all they want but that not gonna change the fact aldnoah zero ending is the worst....

[karice67]

Why-oh-why did I decide to spend a few hours doing this, I don't know...

Key points from the seiyuu interviews:

========

Hanae’s one was really serious compared to the other two…I almost wanted to go and summarise the final radio show instead! -karice

• Hanae’s impression of the ending is that it’s not a straight-out ‘happy ending’, rather there’s something of a lingering note, so he’s also wondering what happens to them afterwards. Though he’s glad that not that many people died.
• Inaho was difficult to act out because he doesn’t really let his emotions show, so he had to be be very nuanced about acting him out. But it became easier by the second cour, partly because he had a clear goal (saving Asseylum), and because he seemed to be more like a normal person, in that his kindness to those around him came out a bit more.
• With regards to Inko, she’s more than a friend but not quite family, someone Inaho wants to protect. For Rayet, Inaho is one of the few people whom she can turn to with regards to her conflicted feelings about being a Martian, and he looked at her her both as one of his allies and also as an individual. So he wanted to protect her, and also to save her (from herself).
• Hanae believes that Inaho regarded Slaine as an enemy ever since episode 7 (though it’s backed up by the shooting in episode 12, and everything in S2), and he tried to convey that in his dialogue. Without Asseylum’s request about saving Slaine, he’d probably have regarded him as an enemy right to the end.
• As for Asseylum, he thinks that Inaho probably didn’t realise his own feelings for her, which the analytical engine summarised as ‘thinking of her as a part of himself’. In Hanae’s view, he probably started off wanting to help her as much as possible because he agreed with her thoughts (probably of wanting to end the war ASAP), but those feelings slowly turned into love. But just as he doesn’t pick up on how Inko is interested in him, he didn’t realise that he’d fallen in love, though that’s probably how everyone would describe it. That he continues to call her “Seylum” suggests that he sees her as ‘a girl’ rather than as ‘the princess’.
• Memorable scenes for Hanae are the hanger scene in 22, where Inaho’s emotions exploded at Slaine, and the scenes that showed how he’d kept Yuki’s post-it note. The latter really show just how human Inaho is, and he really likes their brother-sister relationship. Which brings him to the scene at the start of 16, where the first thing he does upon waking is to try and cover her properly with the blanket.

(I’m with Hanae on this—their relationship remains my favourite thing about this show -karice)

• The final question is about Slaine and Inaho’s scenes in the last episode—Hanae really likes the scene on the beach (a reversal of episode 12, with Slaine even copying Saazbuam), as well as the final shots—and he suggests that those three birds probably represent the relationship between the three main characters at the end.

========

OnoKen:

• In the first cour, Slaine’s actions were driven simply by his pure feelings of wanting to save the princess. However, after Saazbaum shot her, he realised that if he wanted to protect her, he could not be choosy about his methods, nor could he entertain any doubts. That’s why he was willing to stain his hands with blood and even go against what Asseylum wanted.
• Slaine’s objective/goal in S2 was to stop the fighting once and for all: he was trying to end the war by his own hands before Asseylum woke up. However, the princess waking up whilst his plans were still motion really unsettled him.
• To Slaine, Inaho was “someone who was trying to use the princess.” He also blamed him a little for being “the person who brought the princess to the battlefield.” Add to that how Slaine himself was unable to save her even though she was right in front of him. That's probably why he focused all of that regret/self-blame on Inaho.

And directly translating one of the parts that amused me...

On that note, how do you feel about Inaho?

He’s just…totally unfair (chuckles). I mean, he keeps taking down his enemies by using his brains, is regarded as a hero by the UFE, and is flanked by so many people who worry about him. Compared to Slaine, who is surrounded by enemies, Inaho’s only problem was the pain from his left eye, right? To me as the person behind Slaine, that’s pretty unforgiveable (laughs).

• Ono also really likes Asseylum, who put aside her own happiness to marry Klancain for the sake of peace between Earth and Mars. Well, it’s not as if she could have married either Inaho, who was a mere soldier on the Earth side, or Slaine, who was a rebel in the eyes of Vers anyway…though the two of them might well be shedding tears in a corner somewhere… Nevertheless, he can’t help feeling that Klancain just popped out and stole Asseylum from under (them), so he (and Hanae) bullied Osaka Ryōta a little about that.
• Slaine was probably everything to Lemrina, because they were so similar in having so few people on their side. He was the only one who understood her. He’s also really thankful that Harklight stuck with Slaine through to the end—it’s because Harklight was there that he was able to accomplish many of the things he did.
• In the final episode, Slaine’s actions show that his kind, gentle side, was still there. Although he still believed that, in order for war to end, one side has to be destroyed, he ordered his subordinates to surrender so that they would not be unnecessarily sacrificed, and intended to take all responsibility onto himself. Ono thinks that sacrificing himself for others is a sign that Slaine’s kindness had not disappeared; but even then, it was a painful road that he had walked up to that point. And so, those tears that Slaine shed at the end probably represent the mass of feelings that he felt upon hearing of Asseylum’s wishes for him: his own feelings for her, a sense of relief at being freed from that painful journey, as well as regret.
• Finally, Ono thinks that timing was everything. Fate and fortune were never on Slaine’s side, so he feels really sorry for him and hopes that there’ll be some sort of continuation where we’ll be able to see him with even a tiny bit of salvation.

========

HiraDai’s comments:

• At the start, he wondered if Harklight might eventually betray Slaine, since it was really difficult to read him. But soon, he realised that he would stay with Slaine wherever he went. So HiraDai wanted to convey the immense loyalty and respect, and the absolute trust, that Harklight had in Slaine.
• His impression of Slaine is that, even though he learned some mistaken lessons somewhere along the way, at his core, Slaine is someone who’s really pure and honest.
• The scene he remembers most is the one where Slaine dropped all formalities with him - it clearly marked the point where everything really began for the two of them.
• As for A/Z in general, HiraDai suggests that it’s a series that viewers can think about by themselves, looking for their own answers. That it’s a series that’s completed only when they’ve done that.

========

Amamiya:

• Asseylum is someone with a lot of inner strength, someone who doesn't complain to others even when she's sad or in a bind. Even then, The shock of losing her memory, and then all the experiences coming back to her were things that Amamiya tried to bring out in her acting.
• When the completely changed Rayregelia told her to "Become a good princess," that's probably the moment she made up her mind to give up her entire self for the sake of peace between Earth and Vers. (That was the point when she really grew up, so-to-speak. -karice)
• Amamiya was also stunned when she first learned that Asseylum would take Klancain as her husband. But she understood that the decision really shows the character's unwavering determination.
• A Slaine fan to the end, Amamiya really hurts for him as well, and recognises that Asseylum's course of action left no way out for him. But she hopes that the last interaction between Slaine and Inaho conveys how much she cares about him. To her, he's like family, so she didn't want to forsake/abandon him.
• As for Inaho, Asseylum's feelings for him are close to romantic love, but they're more complicated than that...above and beyond romantic love, perhaps (chuckles). Amamiya thinks that the line of "a Terran that I became close to" seems to suggest that she did love Inaho, for reasons which include how he was always protecting her, and the kindness that she saw and felt in him. Though perhaps it's 'respect', and she simply doesn't have such feelings for anyone. To Amamiya, the last line ("It's a cherished memory of mine") points to how Asseylum understands what her decision meant: she might want to see them again, but she doesn't regret her choice, and she'll live as the Empress of Vers.

And directly translating the last bit

By the way, in the end, who do you prefer?

It's Slaine for me, after all. Since I know that he was always thinking about her, no matter what happened, I just can't go over to Inaho. I mean, he's great too, but I just can't betray my feelings for Slaine! That's how I feel, anyway (laughs). I really want him to be happy, from the bottom of my heart. And my feelings for him won't ever change! (laughs)

========

Alright, back to work for me. This was a little bit of a rushed summary, so pls let me know if anyone finds any mistakes! Thanks!

[justpassingby]

Originally Posted by karice67

[*]With regards to Inko, she’s more than a friend but not quite family, someone Inaho wants to protect. For Rayet, Inaho is one of the few people whom she can turn to with regards to her conflicted feelings about being a Martian, and he looked at her her both as one of his allies and also as an individual. So he wanted to protect her, and also to save her (from herself).
[

Pretty sure that Inko did the protecting part for Inaho in the 2nd cour. I'm glad that this is Inaho's POV (not Hanae), and Inko can do better.

Oh well, at least Mikako-shi and Sacchan will not be appearing with the rest of the casts of an anime that I hate for the stage event.

P/S: with the latest Nobuna LN is coming out, now I remember why I hate Ass so much.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by karice67

[*]With regards to Inko, she’s more than a friend but not quite family, someone Inaho wants to protect.

Waaaaaait. The usual formulation is "more than friends, less than lovers". So what kind of relationship does he have with Yuki?

[Syaokura]

Originally Posted by karice67

By the way, in the end, who do you prefer?

It's Slaine for me, after all. Since I know that he was always thinking about her, no matter what happened, I just can't go over to Inaho. I mean, he's great too, but I just can't betray my feelings for Slaine! That's how I feel, anyway (laughs). I really want him to be happy, from the bottom of my heart. And my feelings for him won't ever change! (laughs)

Amamiya may play my least favorite character from A/Z (sorry, but I cannot stand the princess), but I adore her loyalty to Slaine. You go, girl. I, too, want Slaine to be a happy man.

ETA: also I feel so bad for Lemrina. I'm glad that she and Harklight remained loyal to Slaine until the very end.