Rozen Maiden ~ Ouvertüre ~ Discussion Thread

[Kageitenshi]

Rewriting history! I am indeed evil, no need for pride there... it's such a bad thing isn't it. Exactly why I don't usually act like a villain.

[the.Merines]

Originally Posted by Kageitenshi

I am logic and remain objective for a very good reason

Originally Posted by Kageitenshi

Excuse me what? I wasn't arguing about that to begin with?!?

You are arguing, and being logical does not equal being stubborn. All this bickering, heavy heavy sarcasm, and damn near personal attacks make the forum look bad. Stop "trying to see things from others' points of view" since you can't/refuse to do so. Just read people's opinions and take them in stride. Everything that is posted here does not require an explanation several paragraphs long.

I don't mind the fact that people are passionate, but you have to remember that it's just an anime, and this is just the internet. There's no need to be aggressive towards fellow forum-goers. This goes for everyone. This forum used to be a fun place to visit, but it's been bogged down by almost meaningless "discussion" that makes Rozen Maiden fans look bad.

^These are my opinions and should be taken with a grain of salt. I have a special place in my heart for all the characters of Rozen Maiden- even Rozen. The dude is such a genius that he made living dolls, but all we can do is bitch and moan because he has a goal. He wants Alice. For ~200 years there were no casualties in the Alice Game. The dolls all want to be Alice and be with their father. Rozen didn't program him that way- it's just how they are. The dolls love Rozen, so maybe we should all take another look at him.

edit: I don't mean to play moderator in any sense of the word, but things are getting a bit out of hand.

[Kageitenshi]

Now that part of history isn't there to be seen, we can't see the actual events from more than one side. This is exactly the situation in Rozen Maiden, when we can't hear Rozen's words, we don't have him discuss about his "obsession" with Alice, we don't have Laplace telling us anything about his fun and games or why he's tagging along with Enju. Enju doesn't tell Jun about taking part in the Alice game with Barasuishou or even knowing about the other dolls and why he does all this. Those who didn't see the original posts can't possibly draw conclusions without the indisputable evidence of first hand information, when save for a couple quotes, just about the only thing left is opinions based on something that can't be seen. Yes I'm stubborn, but not the only one arguing, as if that justifies anything.

_____________________________

"I think I've argued enough about why Shinku should be excused as Gin is excused by rights of the Ouverture. You may accept it, or you may not"

I wasn't arguing about that to begin with? I opened on this thread by arguing about the reasoning behind Rozen being the source of all the evil and why he's perceived as evil since the dolls don't, though they question the Alice game we don't have proof of Rozen being the one to have started it, save for creating the dolls.

I didn't think of anything npal said as being illogical, since he clearly is feeling and subjective, exactly why I couldn't make much sense his your previous posts. Thus me being unable to see the points... still don't Neither do I believe, I question everything and anything as long as my curiosity remains and answers can be found. Besides, I wasn't asking only npal, but Blablabla's comment on Rozen being evil as well.

I smell something burning... just kidding! Like I said a couple pages back, I sure do hope this doesn't end up in flames, though I don't and won't apologize for inciting them more or less. It takes two to tango, one doesn't have to see things from another person's POV, just live with it and let the other person live with it as well, since like I said, both surely will die with them. Never mind that, this has gotten stale.

[the.Merines]

You may not be arguing, but your posts are argumentative in nature. I don't even really understand your posts at this point, as they don't make a whole lot of sense.

I'm done. No discussion of Ouverture itself is being accomplished at this point.

[Kageitenshi]

Just about the only point in anything I had written was to provoke until it became clear that things aren't getting anywhere and it's time to stop. So, I was arguing, totally and utterly ticked off by the previous arguments more or less related to Gin being "invalid". All the more when it continued beyond remarks about being offensive and off topic. This leading to more off topic crap being thrown around. Didn't bother to go as far as stopping there since, like you said "No discussion of Ouverture itself is being accomplished at this point" and it was somewhat amusing at the time.

Think I'll just take my observer's role again for a while, since most of what I had to say is in page 24, anything much more is just repetition anyhow, unless a good point against anything said there is made. Time to sleep this over.

[the.Merines]

You got the last word in. Mad props.

In other news, who else has pre-ordered the Ouverture DVD? Limited edition?!

Originally Posted by cdjapan

First DVD release from the new series of hit anime series "Rozen Maiden" set in the 19th centurty! This time Suiginto, the antagonist from the previous season, is the hero. Includes bonus postcard. Limited edition includes bonus CD "Suiginto no Koyoi no Enui," deluxe digipak case, and special outer case.

Anyone who checked out kj1980's post on Tanaka Rie's radio show might understand this. The included CD apparently be the real "Suigintou no Koyoi mo Ennu~i" rather than it being a weekly web broadcast as I thought. Maybe. In any case, I'll have it on Alice-Game as soon as it gets into my grubby little palms.

[npal]

Only thing I've preordered is a Shinku figure. I hope that RM will get licensed at some point. Since my japanese are almost non existent, it'd be a waste ordering the DVDs

Yeah, I heard that one. It must be fun, but again, setting it up is a waste for me I've got to get down and learn japanese I'm missing half the fun.

[the.Merines]

I'm almost totally positive that Geneon will be announcing the licensing of RM and ~t~ next Tuesday, 01/16/07.

90%. But I'm no L.

[the.Merines]

Crap, my timing was off.

Originally Posted by ANN

Geneon Licenses Rozen Maiden
As many people have deducted, Geneon Entertainment has licensed Rozen Maiden. The first volume, with four episodes, will be released in spring 2007. On Monday Anime News Network will announce the winners of the "Guess the Geneon License" contest.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!

~Traumend~'s status as of right now is unknown, but I think they picked up both seasons, sans Ouverture.

[Ziv]

Originally Posted by cdjapan

First DVD release from the new series of hit anime series "Rozen Maiden" set in the 19th centurty! This time Suiginto, the antagonist from the previous season, is the hero. Includes bonus postcard. Limited edition includes bonus CD "Suiginto no Koyoi no Enui," deluxe digipak case, and special outer case.

Wah??? Since when is Rozen Maiden set in the 19th century!? It clearly says 2004 on Jun's watch when he's out buying unyuu. Err... wait a second what are they talking about? If they mean traumend then they're still wrong with the date. If they mean Ouverture then they're still wrong. Suigintou wasn't the antagonist. She had just as good a reason to become Alice as Shinku if not a better one. I mean, what did shinku expect she'ld have to do anyway? Magically become alice without taking anyone's rosa mystica?

[Kageitenshi]

It's a bit confusing description ye, but the previous season's (1st and träumend's, around 2004) "antagonist", that being Suigintou is the "hero" in Ouvertüre, mostly set in a flashback in 19th century London. That of which we now have its first DVD release available. So I guess it's correct
Weird choice of words, antagonist and hero indeed

Edit: Hmm... hit me just now, calling 2 episodes a series....

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by npal

Only thing I've preordered is a Shinku figure. I hope that RM will get licensed at some point. Since my japanese are almost non existent, it'd be a waste ordering the DVDs

Yeah, I heard that one. It must be fun, but again, setting it up is a waste for me I've got to get down and learn japanese I'm missing half the fun.

mate you must be a good luck charm O.o its licensed! ^__^ *dances*

Originally Posted by Ziv

Wah??? Since when is Rozen Maiden set in the 19th century!? It clearly says 2004 on Jun's watch when he's out buying unyuu. Err... wait a second what are they talking about? If they mean traumend then they're still wrong with the date. If they mean Ouverture then they're still wrong.

no ouverture was set 100 years previous to the events in RM season 1 so indeed it is the 19th century

[Kageitenshi]

Was watching Ouvertüre again for clues for a more exact date, Big Ben was finished in 1859, but the kind of clothing seen on Sarah suggests that the events take place circa 1895 give or take a couple years. Though other women's clothing doesn't exactly match any Victorian era style. Likewise the horse carriages seen are at least based on 4-seater Brougham design that came on market around 1890. The London taxi on the other hand at that time was using 2-wheeled carriages, so called cabriolets - or cabs and the newer two-wheeled Hansom, so Sarah's family is likely to have a private carriage, since the 4-wheeled cab at the time was a much larger "growler".

Well, historical accuracy set aside, it always makes me laugh to see just how cute the dolls are when they're scared around cats and crows in the drama CD. The pained look on Shinku's face and how she tries to act composed after the cat leaves is gold. Kanaria just shivers and flees at first opportunity every time. Funny how only Hinaichigo got over her neko-phobia after she got a ride to the mailbox by the friendly neighbourhood cat and she's generally considered the most childish of the dolls. Nothing beats desu's alligator plushie incidents though.

BTW, failed to find any info on whether or not there's going to be any special edition for seasons 1 and 2 if even licensed yet? Would most certainly like to be the proud owner of such
Edit: Oh great, waking up too early has made me blind altogether, missed the entire notion on the Deluxe pack

[AthenAltena]

I was amused to see them resurrect the cat gag again *twice!* in Ouverture, and see that it's not just Shinku has the bad luck with cats. Shinku hiding was quite amusing. ^_^

[Blablabla]

About Ouverture, there are things that I don't really understand about Gin :
- How come she knew that she was a Rozen Maiden, the first one to top it all.
- How come the Rozen Maiden knew that they were 7 if the first one was "forgotten" and left uncompleted ? Who told them that ? Rozen ? Fucking Evil Wabbit ?

[Cinnabon-chan]

Originally Posted by Blablabla

About Ouverture, there are things that I don't really understand about Gin :
- How come she knew that she was a Rozen Maiden, the first one to top it all.
- How come the Rozen Maiden knew that they were 7 if the first one was "forgotten" and left uncompleted ? Who told them that ? Rozen ? Fucking Evil Wabbit ?

think Father probably told them in his weird shining golden light. We have never heard him speak, but the dolls hear him.

After all Shinku was able to see the doll left on the shelf, but she was asleep throught the opening.

[the.Merines]

Originally Posted by Blablabla

About Ouverture, there are things that I don't really understand about Gin :
- How come she knew that she was a Rozen Maiden, the first one to top it all.
- How come the Rozen Maiden knew that they were 7 if the first one was "forgotten" and left uncompleted ? Who told them that ? Rozen ? Fucking Evil Wabbit ?

1.) The real answer is unknown. It's possible that she came to understand that the must be the first, since she watched other dolls pop up starting with the second one.

2.) Rozen probably told them at some point. Remember that one of the rules of the Alice Game is that it can't truly begin until all seven Maiden are awake. Because of this, and since we know the dolls take Father's word as the golden truth, they assume that there are seven dolls. We assume that Rozen told the dolls he completed which ones they were, such as "You are Shinku, the fifth doll of the Rozen Maiden," or something like that.

Keep in mind, this is pure speculation.

[Suiseiseki]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

no ouverture was set 100 years previous to the events in RM season 1 so indeed it is the 19th century

Which means Desu isn't loli so it's okay to drool over her doll joints, though since she's that old she's old enough to be my grandmother! Does that mean I prefer aged doll joints?

[VariableRank]

Originally Posted by Suiseiseki

Which means Desu is loli so it's okay to drool over her doll joints, though since she's that old she's old enough to be my grandmother! Does that mean I prefer aged doll joints?

err.. each to his or her own preferences i think..

anyway, how is Rozen still alive in the 20th century.. is he ageless or something?

[npal]

He gives life to DOLLS He gives them magical stones with power His, apparently, servant, the bunny, seems eternal, so why not him? He can probably teleport through the N-field instantaneously to find the broken dolls, and also has a workshop set up in the N-field to repair dolls (or he's reached a level where he doesn't even need tools). So yeah... I think him being immortal is a minor detail