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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness
Yet she still was activating the cannon even when that happened. By your definition if she was taking back control it should be AFTER the cannon was activated.
The way she was acting I think the machine itself served as the "enslaver" for that bloodline since she was asking, "Father?"
I think the way the scene was protrayed was poor since I'm pretty sure she was leaving herself purposefully open to attack to stop her since the beam was not stopped by the reflectors.
And besides, how the hell is Riddhe suppose to know what's going on? Giant red mobile armour preparing to open fire and your in the way, gee cannon has fired and your shooter hasn't replied yet, what should I do? He was jusitified in his actions. She was a soldier and he was a soldier whose job was to stop its rampage from destroying the city.
Not really, Zeon was formed by the philosophy of a man who declared that humanity should move to space and such. His ideals encouraged the idea of independence and that was only for SIDE 3. The guy even stated that the colonies should then be given control of the Earth and such. How the hell do you think the Federation (whose power is based on Earth) would take to that?
When that man was assassinated, his friend took control and turned it into the dictator and war mongerer that became the principality and such.
And I'll stop that because the mods will kill me for spoiling too much.
No his point was that the TITANs was a result of Zeon's actions in that cycle of hatred which for this Banagher was trying to stop as he was correct. Loni's actions would leave nothing but hatred for a Federation boy who'll then do the same thing to Zeon etc.
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The point and time it takes for her to take control is less the matter, just the fact that she WAS taking control back when the shot went awry the Shambloo's defenses were down, and she was sitting limp in the cockpit would suggest that she did in the end.
I was talking more about her conscious actions rather then just the ones manipulated and enforced by the Shambloo which is a separate issue.
True, but could have just as been her regaining control and standing down, we'll never know I guess, that possibility is now lost with her death.
Hey I'm not expecting Riddhe to be physic, he's not a newtype hooked up to a pyscommu unit after all. But I'm disappointed because I know he knew the real tragedy behind what was going on and the overall bigger picture, but when the chips were down he couldn't bring himself to bet on the possibility like Banagher, he couldn't see the way where no one else might have had to die and has thus doomed himself to continuing his family and mankind's mistakes.
I've read and watched through the U.C universe before, I know the standard history by now. But what I'm doing is including all the redux and expository history we've been receiving in this series as well you know, men like Deikum might not have arisen had space colonization gone so terribly awry and people would turn toward the light of Zeon in the depths of their despair, as Marida explained to Banagher in the church scene on Palau.
And you don't think Deikum might have had a point given how badly mismanaged the planets resources are and how distorted the Earth's environment is becoming, as noted in the desert scene of this episode?
He/She clearly was only referring to the act itself and I was simply responding that it shouldn't be downplayed is all, and I believe that's been my point all along so thank you for making it for me I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by houkoholic
The point a lot of us are trying to argue is that whatever the Feds did it didn't justify the Zeon's for committing genocide, which the apologists seems to keep brush it under the carpet.
The Titans only gassed one colony. Zeon gassed several.
Jaburo was a military facility while the nutty Zeon leaders has a thing for civilian targets, the difference is HUGE.
It's not a pissing contest, it's discussing facts. You can't keep saying how the Feds mistreated the spacenoids and when people rebuts with how Zeon committed genocide and only then do you throw up your arms and call it foul. That's having your cake and eating it too.
You know a lot of people in South East Asia would say the nuke dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki is justified, especially if you talk to people in say, Nanking, for example, where the *civilian* death toll is reportedly the same if not even larger than the death toll of the nuke. The Japanese should've learn from the Germans and not play themselves up to be victims of the nuclear attack while at the same time gloss over and even attempted to rewrite the history such as what happened in Nanking and many parts of SE Asia. The tension between the countries in SE Asia would've be gone a long time ago.
This is the exact same type of thought processes that I assume that makes people like me and Revolutionist angry with Zeon apologists - acknowledge the fact that most, if not all, of Zeon's action is simply not justified or justifiable, especially committing numerous genocide in the name of "freedom" and move on (and no this has absolutely nothing to do with the winners writing history), everyone would be a lot happier.
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I'm not saying it did, but simply casting blame on Zeon as well won't fix the the clear systemic problems within the Federation and its policies towards the colonies either, that's what happened with Germany after WWI and looked what happened there.
I'm not, I'm just once again saying that people, INCLUDING Zeon but in this case also the Federation, need to get over looking at things from one side of the spectrum and acknowledge that no ones hands are really clean at this point and that this continued struggle is becoming pointless.
I'm sure that excuses it. And they blew up Jaburo with most of the Federation personnel still evacuating if I recall. Lets not forget all the suppression and subversion of power while we're at it. And I'm just trying to make a point here, I'm not really on anyone's side persay (I'm with Banagher on this one), I don't generally feel the need to point out Zeon's actions because they speak for themselves, hell members of Zeon in this OVA probably agree on that subject, but casting blame and exacting retribution changes nothing in the end.
Like we can say China, Vietnam, Myanmar, and Cambodia have spotless records of doing the same thing (to their own people too!) or not resorted to those exact same revisionist tactics up till now, or even the Western Imperialist powers who controlled the region at the time for that matter. But really I think you're just making my point for me, all anyone is doing is glossing over the underlying problems, unless an accord and an understanding can be reached these matters will continue too persist in souring relations regardless.
Hey that's just my semi-neutral understanding of the matter, I'm not saying its correct but that's likely how Zeon will perceive the matter, all people see what they want to see, and no matter how much others cast Zeon as a bunch of monsters they're also people too in the end. And a lot of people would be happier if the Federation let go of the reigns a little too, it might just help a little, don't you think? At this point I think it should be clear that one side cannot simply solve for peace alone, there needs to be a resolution from all parties on all fronts or we'll never get anywhere. Otherwise we'll be stuck in this pseudo Israel-Palestine relationship indefinitely.
