Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The music can be like that, but the VN tracks where written for the VN and not to fit in with the characters spoken dialog, so their much be a compromise in the anime. Movie soundtracks are written for their scenes and in some cases the dialog itself. They are also blended in the editting. So if you are to take an existing piece of music to fit this anime, one must edit the music and vary the volume so that it doesn't overpower the intent of the scene.

I think everyone agrees that the music needs to be heavily edited to fit the scene, but that doesn't mean that they need to change the tone of many scenes. Even in the game, the music fits the flow of the text pretty well if you click at a good rate. In fact, the game music fitting the scenes almost perfectly is one of the things that makes the VN great.

I think the System0 remix didn't fit the scene as well as the original, and they could have found a better middle ground. ...But it worked, and definitely didn't ruin the song in any way. I hope the more iconic tracks later on get a better treatment, but the anime BGMs so far have been on par with the VN's at this point, overall.

...Except, why no full GS?!?!

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

I think everyone agrees that the music needs to be heavily edited to fit the scene, but that doesn't mean that they need to change the tone of many scenes. Even in the game, the music fits the flow of the text pretty well if you click at a good rate. In fact, the game music fitting the scenes almost perfectly is one of the things that makes the VN great.

I think the System0 remix didn't fit the scene as well as the original, and they could have found a better middle ground. ...But it worked, and definitely didn't ruin the song in any way. I hope the more iconic tracks later on get a better treatment, but the anime BGMs so far have been on par with the VN's at this point, overall.

...Except, why no full GS?!?!

GS is a bit over 7 mins long, it might be too tricky to fit the full song in. I love the VN BGM as well and I hope that they incorporate them into the anime as well as possible. We'll just have to wait and see.

[BakaOnna]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

I think everyone agrees that the music needs to be heavily edited to fit the scene, but that doesn't mean that they need to change the tone of many scenes. Even in the game, the music fits the flow of the text pretty well if you click at a good rate. In fact, the game music fitting the scenes almost perfectly is one of the things that makes the VN great.

I think the System0 remix didn't fit the scene as well as the original, and they could have found a better middle ground. ...But it worked, and definitely didn't ruin the song in any way. I hope the more iconic tracks later on get a better treatment, but the anime BGMs so far have been on par with the VN's at this point, overall.

...Except, why no full GS?!?!

Well, GS is, as Ssol said, over 7 minutes long. Not to mention the anime has an annoying habit of wanting to end in a cliffhanger of finding the twilights, and that's when GS is usually played.

I'm sure we'll hear a version that'll play more than the first 20 or so seconds once we've gotten into the later episodes.

Btw, is Umineko going to get an OST?

[Lio]

^ It has to. Almost all series do. Except for hentai... I wouldn't mind them releasing their soundtracks. Some of them really do have great music!

Anyway, just finished the episode. George's breast dive! I can't help but imagine Tohno Shiki or Mikiya doing it. Well done George, way to butcher their characters.

[Marion]

Yes there will be an anime OST.

[Neki Ecko]

I was going to chine in a little bit later but I think after all the fireworks between First-Time Watchers and VN folks, I have to get a few words in.

First of all, I didnt played Umineko VN or even heard about it until couple of days ago while doing some reading on Wiki about 07th. Like me, there is alot of other people that isnt into the world of Umineko like other people around here and on the net that was lucky enough to played the VN. Now, since Anime Adaption is out now, and alot of other people is now looking at it and try to get a feel about it and see if they want to contiune it or drop it, but also they look at comments by other fans and outsiders on forums like this to make their decision. But when you have ppl that saying that this is wrong, that is wrong and nitpicking about little stuff (like George's Breast Dive, that crazy girl that had Pop Rocks and Crystal Pespi everyday with those crazy looks and other stuff) even know that eveybody can make their own opinion about this series, if sucks for them or not, but it is making alot of the first-time watchers doing a double-take about this series because of this.

But yall have to remember that the reason why that Higurashi did so good because it wasnt the hardcore fans that follow the game but the first-time viewers that look at it on DVD or on Youtube. So maybe they could did alot better in some aspects but overall, Umineko is going to be a great series right beside Higurashi but if we have the same problems that we see on this thread, this series is going to lose alot of good fans because of it.

My take of the series: 9/10

*Edit: After rewatching all of the episodes again including this one, I finally found out who Maria sounds like, it was kinda was on my mind at work today since I was tell this to one of co-workers until I heard a song from this person and then it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I know that some of Maria fans will try to get me after I tell this, but I think that Maria sounds like Soulija Boy when she does that "UU" sound.

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by k//eternal

But it's not like you can't have an opinion that's shared with someone else. If you restrict people from expressing what they think, that doesn't actually make for pleasant conversation either.

The point of the post wasn't to propose restrictions on your personal impressions; it was a commentary on the frequent rate in which each episode thread is drenched in negativity, and to make things clearer on my side since there seems to be a confusion on this matter.

I'm not sure where the sudden influx of 'ratings' comments are coming from, as they're quite unrelated to the issue at hand. It seems I have to stress (for the third time) that there's no rule forbidding any forms of negative criticisms, and I certainly don't have a problem with it either. In fact, what often occurred for me and is now all but a principle, is that most of the posts made by people I completely disagree with are also the ones which I derive the most enjoyment from, as it raises the possibility of introducing new domains which I hadn't considered before. Based on what I've seen in the fandom, this place is fast earning a reputation as a dumping ground for some novel readers to incessantly rant (and this is as direct as I could go without making the scene very ugly) and it's not difficult to get that image when you're actually finding yourself skipping posts more than reading them, where it became more of a 'what the anime didn't do / failed to do' negative checklist before ranting. A lot of other posters have went and expanded beyond this point, so I won't rehash them again.

I could see a landslide of posts telling me off recommending other places of interest aside from AS, and there's no need to, as I'm doing just that. Well, to take my own advice, I'll leave it here and let the thread go on, and and if anyone's interested in continuing, you're welcome to PM me.

Edit: Crystal Pepsi...

[MeoTwister5]

Give me half of GoldenSlaughter and I will be satisfied.

[Kitsu]

They sold only for a shot time in the US only from 1992–1993 here a bit longer, soo

[Chaho-Chi]

Man It was out before I was born, unfair. D=

@Neki Ecko Lots of people didn't play with Higurashi VN If Im not wrong, but they made a good adaptation. The Umineko anime isn't that bad ether, even though they skipped a few parts (and not to mention the boob thing) it has a great adaptation so far, I guess people few overreacted.

[MarthX]

lol, people praising the Higurashi adaption. Umineko has skipped a few parts but Higurashi skipped A TON. Several times more and the pace was much, much worse. Higurashi Kai was a lot better though. Umineko is about on its level.

[Christen]

I can relate somewhat. I liked Higurashi season 1 and praised it before the existence of the novel came to my knowledge. It's hard being spoiled.

[Archon_Wing]

Omg shoot Maria already.

It felt like kind of a mess, and Kanon just getting knocked off like that; that was just weird. Well, number one rule: Don't split up. I'd say this episode was ok, maybe a 6

[tcaz2]

From what I've read, the first arc of Higurashi seemed better done than the first of Umineko's, adaption wise. They cut a lot of character development and emotion out of Umineko's first arc so far, while Higurashi's was left MOSTLY intact.

But Umineko on the whole has a lot less 'filler' scenes like Higurashi's club games.

It's mostly the later arcs that get a LOT of complaining about being a bad adaption for Higurashi.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by tcaz2

From what I've read, the first arc of Higurashi seemed better done than the first of Umineko's, adaption wise. They cut a lot of character development and emotion out of Umineko's first arc so far, while Higurashi's was left MOSTLY intact.

But Umineko on the whole has a lot less 'filler' scenes like Higurashi's club games.

It's mostly the later arcs that get a LOT of complaining about being a bad adaption for Higurashi.

On the whole, yeah I agree with you that Umineko serves less 'cutworthy' content than Higurashi, because most of the club games serve as foreshadowing and hinting towards later events and are in general not needed in an anime which reaches this point only 2 maybe 3 episodes later.

Yet so far Umineko didn't skip anything that I would call being of major importance. Most of the characters individual stance was either explained or at least implied, in a modern cinema adaption of a novel there is no more room for such things either. At least here we've got the visual and accustical layer, which can help deliver.

And about the first Higurashi arc, yes...while it was an interesting adaption in itself, it was in no way true to it's original source. It mostly ripped every nearly scary scene from a mystery/investigation novel's first chapter, turned the volume up by 50% and made it a full blood horror anime.
While I agree that Onikakushi in the anime is good and I find it as much entertaining as the VN (and it by far not as painfull to sit through), it is in no way a good representation of the VN, it was a very liberal adaption.

[tcaz2]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

On the whole, yeah I agree with you that Umineko serves less 'cutworthy' content than Higurashi, because most of the club games serve as foreshadowing and hinting towards later events and are in general not needed in an anime which reaches this point only 2 maybe 3 episodes later.

Yet so far Umineko didn't skip anything that I would call being of major importance. Most of the characters individual stance was either explained or at least implied, in a modern cinema adaption of a novel there is no more room for such things either. At least here we've got the visual and accustical layer, which can help deliver.

And about the first Higurashi arc, yes...while it was an interesting adaption in itself, it was in no way true to it's original source. It mostly ripped every nearly scary scene from a mystery/investigation novel's first chapter, turned the volume up by 50% and made it a full blood horror anime.
While I agree that Onikakushi in the anime is good and I find it as much entertaining as the VN (and it by far not as painfull to sit through), it is in no way a good representation of the VN, it was a very liberal adaption.

I disagree; they left out scenes of importance. While perhaps not plot important, they are scenes that greatly affect your perception of the series, such as some of the Natsuhi development or emotional reactions to scenes.

Higurashi's first arc, while yes it DID turn the horror aspect up a lot, was mostly true to the novel as far as such aspects go. The only scene of real importance that got left out is (this just happens to be both plot important and character development important, actually)

Spoiler for Higurashi spoilers:

Tomitake playing with the gang at Watanagashi

While I can go through Episode 1 of Umineko and point out numerous scenes that either got cut or watered down that 'made the arc for me'. That is not a good thing in an adaption; regardless of if it gets the plot right or not (which Umineko seems to be doing), an adaption needs to have the same feel as the original as much as possible, lest you lose what made people love it in the first place.

Now, I'm NOT saying it's bad. I don't think it is. From a pure entertainment standpoint, I think the anime is doing a decent job so far. It just could be doing better.

[BakaOnna]

In terms of emotional impact of the anime, I think Umineko and Higurashi are the same. Yeah, Umineko left out/watered down the emotional reactions of the murders, but I felt Onikakushi-hen left out a lot as well. I found the ending to the Higurashi VN a lot sadder and depressive than the anime's adaptation. In the anime, it just felt more shocking than how, in the game, it felt a lot more tragic.

[maximilianjenus]

Still it does not always need to have the scenes, I will use kanon as an example, they take a nice amount of time to explain his cold personality in the novel, while most anime watchers, just from his attitudes and tone of voice have alreayd figured out his personality much better than what the novel let's you at this point.

[tcaz2]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

Still it does not always need to have the scenes, I will use kanon as an example, they take a nice amount of time to explain his cold personality in the novel, while most anime watchers, just from his attitudes and tone of voice have alreayd figured out his personality much better than what the novel let's you at this point.

Not really what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about scenes like

Spoiler for Umineko VN Episode 1:

Natsuhi's standing with the entire family is never made clear, as her entire conversation with Krauss in the gold room is cut.

Battler's crying fit at the first twilight gives a lot of insight to his character and how he views his family as really important to him.

The discussion about Maria's 'dual personalities', because people seem to be making a bigger deal about it that have only watched the anime than people did for the VN... though this is more a problem with how the anime is handling Maria on the whole.

Another of Battler's rage-crying scenes when Kanon dies, and Natsuhi hugs him and says she'll become a mother to them all.

Jessica's personality on the whole has been watered down a lot.

And how they seemed to make too lightly of the fact that sending them out of the room meant essentially killing them. Also, I really miss Battler's question to Natsuhi at the end of the scene in Kinzo's room where he asks her 'What if, by chance, Jessica was on that side of the room as well?' and she suddenly goes all sullen. Though this is really just a nitpick, as I realize they can't include everything.

It just doesn't have the same feel. For what the anime is doing, it's doing well for the most part, but when you leave out whole aspects of peoples personalities (Battler and Jessica for the most part), it really kind of gets to you.

[chounokoe]

And I think it is mostly subjective perception if you regard the atmosphere as 'similar to the novel' because atmosphere always depends to a certain degree on your very personal stance towards a medium.

To take Onikakushi VN vs. Onikakushi Anime as an example again, I think the atmosphere of the novel and the anime differ much more, than the difference between Umineko's Episode 1 VN vs. Episode 1 Anime.
While I started to hate Higurashi's excessive take on the rural life and the leisure pace of school after having to read through it in the DS-version for a third time, it was an important part to set the mood which was to be contrasted by the final third, which introduced the underlying horror of the series. The anime on the other hand did not take time to introduce such a feeling at all and went for the moody, uneasy feeling of brooding horror right from the first episode on.
I like both approaches in their own terms, but they are not comparable in MY OPINION.

Umineko on the other hand introduced it's Gothic topic from the first scene on. We had Kinzo's madness (the archetypical old, sinister villain), we had the young innocent youth's wandering into their demise with blind eyes (the children) and the already corrupted inhabitants of this gothic world (the children and to a certain degree the adults).
Even the VN made no attempt to hide that brooding uneasiness that was there from the start, even though the airport and the boatride was used to lighten up the mood. At least that is how I perceive both the Umineko VN and Anime.

The characters individual presentation I think may differ from the VN, but I think they are not less characterized so far, even though we are not TOLD as much as in the VN. But I myself am not really a fan of telling and prefer showing over that.