2011-02-06, 15:56 | Link #1322 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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2011-02-06, 16:05 | Link #1323 |
Keeper of the Silver Gate
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tokyo
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Its going to be interesting to see how the flow of forum opinions go after episode 6. Wowee, there are some passionate folks here in the Madoka forum. I love this series!
BTW, has anybody talked about what influenced Urobuchi to dip into Faust and other German references like the rune system? (Excellent breakdown of the runes here http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Deciphering_the_runes) I suspect some people have made connections between Faust and the Kyuube/MG system? And excuse me in advance if I missed those discussions but I'm newish to the threads (Sorry if I missed it 66 pages to this thread thus far ). Perhaps a better question would be now that we are 5 episodes in, how tightly wound is Faust with the series mythology? It always intrigues me when a anime production tries to pull literary references into their world. I guess I'm curious how integral to the story it is or is it just window dressing and exotic frill for the magical aspects of the show. |
2011-02-06, 16:17 | Link #1324 | |
Keeper of the Silver Gate
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tokyo
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While I might be invested in a certain idea or perspective in respect to Madoka right now, as others have pointed out, the series is not finished and will soon be over anyway. I have no dog in this hunt, and new information contrary to my current thoughts on the series will not stain my enjoyment of the series. In fact, surprises and twists is what makes a show interesting. In the end, Madoka is Urobuchi's creation and what he does with it is up to his creative direction. My only expectation as a viewer is: am I being entertained? Yes, yes I am! |
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2011-02-06, 17:51 | Link #1325 | ||
I kill you
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
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2011-02-06, 18:43 | Link #1326 | |
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2011-02-06, 18:58 | Link #1327 |
I kill you
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
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^ Well, you can say it is personal opinion, but...
Let's say there is extremely poor girl who found 1 dollar coin on the floor. She took it, thus she is selfish. Let's say there is certain German dictator who massacred tons of innocent people for sake of his belief and pride (or just simply crazy, but whatever). Thus, he is selfish. I know these examples are extreme, but I still think you can say about degree of selfishness according to their motives or consequence. From the information given, Madoka is selfish since she is not becoming Puella magi and just crying over Mami's death since she doesn't want to die. Kyuube is selfish because he is putting girls into the path that is 'no better than death (according to Homura)' for certain unknown motivation (which is most likely just to remove witch, but his abnormal interest in Madoka suggests something bigger). I consider Madoka's reaction is much natural to any human, when Kyuube is a bit more outrageous from his enthusiastic luring for RECRUITO. You can still say it is opinion, though.
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2011-02-06, 19:08 | Link #1328 |
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Your examples don't work, because the girl was never in the position of sacrificing tons of human lives. In both cases, each person took advantage of the situations before them to benefit themselves. That's what is meant when selfish is said to be binary. Either you take advantage of something for your benefit, or you don't. It's and either/or situation.
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2011-02-06, 21:35 | Link #1329 | |||||
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There definitely does seem to be something wrong with the Magical Girl system of this show. Perhaps it is inherently evil. Or perhaps it has simply become corrupted over time (maybe by a lot of 'bad apple' magical girls?) And there is something very systematic to how Kyubey operates. And that's actually a major reason why I have a very hard time imagining him as an Evil Overlord villain type. Truly manipulative and treacherous villains like Emperor Palpatine, Lex Luthor, Jail Scaglietti, etc... tend to have a certain charisma and style to them. They're careful, but they tend to have dynamic, if not complex, personalities. Kyubey's personality is very one-dimensional in comparison. I mean, I honestly can't even imagine Kyubey making an evil grin while saying "Just as planned! Ha ha ha ha ha!" Can you? Unless Kyubey is putting on an absolutely amazing Academy Award winning acting performance, he just doesn't have that sort of "Sneering Bastard" personality in him. Do you see what I'm saying, totoum? I know my point is a bit vague. Kyubey oddly comes across as intelligent, but barely sentient. He's like an android that has to follow his programming, and has little freedom beyond that. Perhaps the best specific comparison I can think of here is the T-800 from Terminator 2. The T-800 had a mission, and that was that, and nothing else mattered to him. Does that make him evil? It makes him cold, perhaps heartless. But evil, to me, suggests something a bit more personable than that. Something shaped by autonomous intent. If not the T-800, then perhaps Kyubey is like Robocop: His thinking is largely mechanical, and he has directives that he absolutely 100% most follow, but he does have some personal desires and motives laying deep beneath the surface. If so, it'll be interesting to see what those desires and motive are. Right now, I'm thinking that Kyubey is like a T-800 or a Robocop. Quote:
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I believe in true altruism. Remember that recent mining disaster? I believe it was in Argentina or Chile, but I can't recall off-hand which it was. What I do recall, though, was news reports talking about how the men trapped inside were arguing with each other over the order in which they would be rescued... as each one wanted to be rescued last. In other words, the men were putting the lives of their co-workers ahead of their own lives. That's true altruism, Kaijo. That's genuinely selfless. However, I will admit that this degree of selflessness is probably rare. It does exist, though. The problem is actually the opposite of what you argued. The problem is that a lot of people that are assessing this show and its characters, do tend to see selfishness as being of an entirely binary nature. And then anything that comes even one iota short of total selflessness is called "selfish", and I think that's too simplistic, and far too judgmental. Selfishness and selflessness exists on a continuum, I think. There are extremes at either end: The relentlessly greedy and miserly on one end (think Ebeneezer Scrooge before his personal redemption), and folks like those miners I mentioned earlier on the other end. But most people fall inbetween. So, selfishness is a relative scale. And, in my opinion, for someone to be deserving of the criticism "selfish", he or she needs to be more selfish than the average human being. I don't see that with Madoka or Sayaka. The average human being would probably be wishing for a trillion dollars, or for immortality. Compared to that, their wishes are relatively selfless. Now of course Sayaka hopes that she'll get some personal benefits from her wish. But that doesn't mean that she doesn't want Kamijo to become happy again for his own sake. That doesn't mean she's being selfish. She's not. Far from it, imo. So, again, people are holding up far too low a measure for "selfish". Quote:
This show is emphasizing the basic danger aspect of being a magical girl more than most other magical girl shows do, but it's not raising most of the questions that you are. The fact that we're dealing with teenage girls here (as opposed to adults) is as glossed over by this magical girl show as it is by any other that I've seen. At least so far.
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2011-02-06, 21:58 | Link #1330 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Danger is only an element of the issue as its gets us to consider if being a MG girl is really such a good thing or are we truly making a deal with the devil. While some of us might be like Sayaka and ignore the danger even if we know it, other might be more prudent in our evaluation like Madoka. We have the advantage of the writers emphasizing the shadiness of QB actions and for the most part these girls with the exception of possibly Homura haven't yet come to question some of the things he tells them. An adult would probably make a more informed decision but I generally can't separate the fact that these girls are so young and inexperience to why he they would be so susceptible to him. If anything I view him so far in the light of a sexual predator/pedophile.
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2011-02-08, 00:37 | Link #1331 |
I kill you
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: In your brain
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Just remind you guys;
Shaft's website is updated; http://www.shaft-web.co.jp/ which now lists every work by Shaft until Madoka now. It's a bit parallel to the situation when Shaft pages was updated during Bakemonogatari's airing. Also, they are recruiting not just animators, but also production assistant staffs. Rather than emergency call like last time, it's more of business purpose, I think. Though, we can expect some quality improvement after all. http://animapple.blogspot.com/2011/0...y-updated.html
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2011-02-08, 01:18 | Link #1332 | ||
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There is selfishness in everything. But as I hope I've made clear, that's not a bad thing. We humans are geared to act in our own interest. If a greedy motherfuck will donate large sums to charity... it's a great tax write-off! So that's why I don't think badly of Sayaka. Because even if she made a selfish wish (and the jury is still out on that), she's still taken on a death sentence. In the good book, there is a line, "No greater love hath a man than this; that he lay down his life for his friend." While I'm no longer religious, there is an element of truth to that. What I mean by "apply the standard evenly" is the laughable point that somehow Sayaka is selfish but Madoka isn't. If we're going to apply it evenly, the Madoka is just as selfish, acting in her own best interest. Whether or not one agrees with an action taken, does not absolve the action of its inherent properties. Quote:
We don't know why he recruits just young girls. Of course, the reason is because it is a Magical Girl show, but there has been no internal revelation for why that is. Perhaps young girls are the only ones with magical potential. Perhaps, as some said, Madoka wished this world into existence because she wanted a world of magical girls. In any event, we have witches which are a clear threat to humans, and magical girls are apparently the only ones who can stop them. It's not very fair to paint him a sexual predator if he's acting in this line. You can hold your viewpoint that he's evil, without resorting to hyperbole that's better left on an extremist pundit's broadcast. |
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2011-02-08, 03:41 | Link #1333 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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The seiyuu answered some questions from fan about the series. I heard that it had some hints about Sayaka. Can someone here translate it?
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13473066 or http://nicosound.anyap.info/sound/sm13473066
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2011-02-08, 09:36 | Link #1334 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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I don't know if this was posted, but I think this theory makes sense, even though it looks like a plot of Shin megami tensei game.
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Speculah..._System_Theory |
2011-02-08, 10:30 | Link #1335 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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We don't know everything yet but what I see allows me to form an opinion. You don't need to try to paint me as some sort of extremist to try to invalidate that opinion. I don't really hold the viewpoints he evil just that he quite possibly might be and I have been leaning towards it more and more as episodes have gone by.
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2011-02-08, 10:39 | Link #1336 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: tokyo
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Spoiler for interview excerpt:
Last edited by cat_monster; 2011-02-08 at 10:54. |
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2011-02-08, 12:20 | Link #1337 | ||
田舎者言うな
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Episodes staffs!
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2011-02-08, 12:49 | Link #1338 | |
Banned
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Hell, do you see yourself as a sexual predator for engaging in capitalistic practices? Because you've offered payment for services in the past. |
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2011-02-08, 13:01 | Link #1340 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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If you feel that way I guess you feel I have no right to criticize prostitution or drug traffickers right? That's just the exchange of good and services too. I'm arguing the right and wrong of what he sells and does.
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despair, hope, madoka magica, magical girl, urobuchi gen |
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