Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha

[Rising Dragon]

I don't remember any flashback involving Yuuno and the Scrya clan. I'll need a season and episode and time to place it.

[Keroko]

Somewhere in season 1 when he explains what the Scrya are and do.

Of course, other Scrya's wearing the same clothing says nothing. Clan clothing has a tendency to look alike. Heck, we don't even know if what Yuuno's wearing is actually a barrier jacket at all.

[Sunder the Gold]

We know that Chrono's usual getup is a barrier jacket for the same reasons: first, he wears it into battle; second, he wears entirely different and extremely normal clothing while off-duty and relaxing. If this applies to Chrono, why not Yuuno?

The lack of a device has never prevented other mages from using barrier jackets, and Yuuno is, if anything, more talented than Chrono, considering their age difference.

[Key Board]

It's explained in the first season that Yuuno's excavation team got nearly wiped out and he stole his clan relic (raising heart) to go vigilante

He did the Jewel hunting out of personal guilt and responsibility

tldr; Yuuno didn't want to let the authorities handle it and took matters into his own hands. Remember that he was a child himself, and children are emotional creatures

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

We know that Chrono's usual getup is a barrier jacket for the same reasons: first, he wears it into battle; second, he wears entirely different and extremely normal clothing while off-duty and relaxing. If this applies to Chrono, why not Yuuno?

I never said it wasn't his barrier jacket, I'm saying we don't know if it's his barrier jacket.

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

The lack of a device has never prevented other mages from using barrier jackets, and Yuuno is, if anything, more talented than Chrono, considering their age difference.

Really? The only example I can think of from the top of my head is descendant-from-genetically-engineered-royal-line Einhart. Hardly a good example, especially in the face of Nanoha and Fate, the two biggest protagonists in the franchise, being completely unable to transform without a device.

Originally Posted by Key Board

It's explained in the first season that Yuuno's excavation team got nearly wiped out and he stole his clan relic (raising heart) to go vigilante

... Where exactly is this 'wiped out' and 'clan relic' explained? 'cause this is the first time I heard of it outside of theories and fanfics.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I never said it wasn't his barrier jacket, I'm saying we don't know if it's his barrier jacket.

Assuming otherwise seems like unreasonable skepticism.

Really? The only example I can think of from the top of my head is descendant-from-genetically-engineered-royal-line Einhart. Hardly a good example, especially in the face of Nanoha and Fate, the two biggest protagonists in the franchise, being completely unable to transform without a device.

Nano and Fate (and especially Fate) have activated and maintained their barrier jackets without activating their Devices multiple times.

Also, Yuuno is already unusual in that he doesnt rely on a Device for any task, not even high speed aerial combat, which is pretty damn impressive. Whenever Bardiche or Raising Heart get badly damaged, those two aces have to retreat. Not so the librarian, who has developed no such dependency.

... Where exactly is this 'wiped out' and 'clan relic' explained? 'cause this is the first time I heard of it outside of theories and fanfics.

I've also never heard of this before.

[Rising Dragon]

Technically speaking, Devices are always activated. They don't always stay in a weapon form or the like, but they don't get turned off when they're in a standby form.

[Sunder the Gold]

What about when they were both wrecked by clashing over that Jewel Seed in episode 6? Rendered nonfunctional and returned to standby form, Fate still had her jacket. Nanoha's also didn't disappear.

[Rising Dragon]

They were just as wrecked in A's after the first encounter with the Wolkenritter, yet both of them were still able to alter their own schematics and demand cartridge systems before they'd return to full functionality.

[Sunder the Gold]

The Wolkenritter wrecked the frames, but werent the gem cores left intact? Also, the cores would have been repaired before the frames, and it was the frames that the cores wanted changed.

[Rising Dragon]

Frames weren't changed until after A's--Amy specifically told them not to go overboard because the frames hadn't been strengthened yet.

[Sunder the Gold]

Also, in episode ten, Yuuno is onboard the Asura in casual clothes one moment, and when he teleports into the danger zone a moment later, he's in his battle getup. Since he was dodging Chrono to do that, and didn't have time to head back to his cabin and change clothes, it's definitely a barrier jacket.

[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Frames weren't changed until after A's--Amy specifically told them not to go overboard because the frames hadn't been strengthened yet.

An addition is a change, and the cartridge system was added to the frames.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

Assuming otherwise seems like unreasonable skepticism.

As is assuming the entire Scrya clan has to be mages because they wear the same clothing.

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

Nano and Fate (and especially Fate) have activated and maintained their barrier jackets without activating their Devices multiple times.

Yes, but the devices were still there. As I pointed out before, a device doesn't need to transform itself to still support the mage. I point once more to StrikerS, where the one time Nanoha and Fate didn't have devices they couldn't do squat.

[al103]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I point once more to StrikerS, where the one time Nanoha and Fate didn't have devices they couldn't do squat.

Yeah, and such nice thing as AMF didn't do a thing... not. And I must note when they used cable they hands were protected by defensive field.

PS. From the same Strikers - Nanoha deactivated RH and then put down Teana.

PPS. Devices are big calculators. And it's possible to multiply 6-digit numbers in you head without one and even without pen and paper. But calculator helps very much. And there even some people who do it in the head faster then on calculator.

PPPS. From sound stages (don't know about movie) we know that Fate started her training without device.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by al103

Yeah, and such nice thing as AMF didn't do a thing... not. And I must note when they used cable they hands were protected by defensive field.

PS. From the same Strikers - Nanoha deactivated RH and then put down Teana.

I should reword that. Neither she nor Fate could transform without their devices. Yes, there was AMF, but they still couldn't transform, even though -as you pointed out- they could still use magic.

And as I keep repeating Nanoha never deactivated Raising Heart, she just released the staff mode. A device doesn't need to be transformed to support its user. This is something we have a large amount of examples of.

[al103]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I should reword that. Neither she nor Fate could transform without their devices. Yes, there was AMF, but they still couldn't transform, even though -as you pointed out- they could still use magic.

They didn't need to transform to get to the devices. And as magic without device is slower (as it have it's role as calculator) - it was just plain faster to get devices first.

Originally Posted by Keroko

And as I keep repeating Nanoha never deactivated Raising Heart, she just released the staff mode. A device doesn't need to be transformed to support its user. This is something we have a large amount of examples of.

It didn't made sense to deactivate staff, but still use device in that lesson.

PS. Do you really want to say that Barrier Jacket is harder than teleportation and body change that Yuuno do without device?

[Akiyoshi]

I lack the material to argue with Keroko on most of his points about this but the transformation sounds silly as Yuuno and Einhart are perfectly capable of tranforming without a device.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by al103

They didn't need to transform to get to the devices. And as magic without device is slower (as it have it's role as calculator) - it was just plain faster to get devices first.

Actually, it would be just plain faster to transform and fly to the devices.

Originally Posted by al103

It didn't made sense to deactivate staff, but still use device in that lesson.

Neither does it make sense to deactivate the device and fight without it, so that's circular logic. The reason was actually quite simple. Two hands were required. One to stop Teana, one to stop Subaru.

Originally Posted by al103

PS. Do you really want to say that Barrier Jacket is harder than teleportation and body change that Yuuno do without device?

*shrug* No proof, but evidence supports the theory. We have never, and I do mean never, seen any member of the main cast transform without devices outside of Einhart, and the one time two of the most powerful members of the cast were without them they could not do so. So if Yuuno does use a Barrier Jacket, it is either because

A: He's just that awesome, or

B: Nanoha and Fate are more reliant on their devices than we initially thought.

[al103]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Actually, it would be just plain faster to transform and fly to the devices.

In building and under AMF condition? Also flying is independent of BJ.