Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monster

Indeed, and that's just fine. Not all characters need a backstory.

I'm thinking of something similar to GW: Episode Zero.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I'm thinking of something similar to GW: Episode Zero.

Well, like I said before, a sidestory would've been fine.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by I am Gundam 10

Shinn is an idiot anyways never liked his loud mouth angry attitude but was alright with him if he wasn't screaming like a guy on drugs or feel like he is a bigshot and about Japan being crazy with panty shot lol.

Shinn isn't an idiot, he's a young teenager who had bad role models. Athrun tried to teach him but than the next moment he was randomly smacking Shinn around or yelling at him when Shinn was merely doing his job. Not very helpful having a Tsundere Mentor that physically abuses his student. Thus it was easy for his best friend, Rey, to manipulate him to Durandal's faction as Durandal sung praises of Shinn, promoted him left and right, gave him two of his top Gundam models, and was a father figure to Shinn who had lost his family in the last war.

If Shinn didn't believe in Durandal after all that than he would have been a poorly written character since Shinn is never really shown any reason not to believe Durandal due to Durandal keeping that stuff out of sight or labeling those against him as traitors.

Hell, Athrun believed in Durandal as well up until Durandal decided to get rid of Athrun.

[I Fail at Life]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Shinn isn't an idiot, he's a young teenager who had bad role models. Athrun tried to teach him but than the next moment he was randomly smacking Shinn around or yelling at him when Shinn was merely doing his job. Not very helpful having a Tsundere Mentor that physically abuses his student. Thus it was easy for his best friend, Rey, to manipulate him to Durandal's faction as Durandal sung praises of Shinn, promoted him left and right, gave him two of his top Gundam models, and was a father figure to Shinn who had lost his family in the last war.

If Shinn didn't believe in Durandal after all that than he would have been a poorly written character since Shinn is never really shown any reason not to believe Durandal due to Durandal keeping that stuff out of sight or labeling those against him as traitors.

Hell, Athrun believed in Durandal as well up until Durandal decided to get rid of Athrun.

YO! This had me dying, . That's just..... I can't even..... someone call Children Services! That's sad (not really). Maybe they will have Shinn kiss that phone in this remaster, .

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Shinn isn't an idiot, he's a young teenager who had bad role models. Athrun tried to teach him but than the next moment he was randomly smacking Shinn around or yelling at him when Shinn was merely doing his job. Not very helpful having a Tsundere Mentor that physically abuses his student. Thus it was easy for his best friend, Rey, to manipulate him to Durandal's faction as Durandal sung praises of Shinn, promoted him left and right, gave him two of his top Gundam models, and was a father figure to Shinn who had lost his family in the last war.

If Shinn didn't believe in Durandal after all that than he would have been a poorly written character since Shinn is never really shown any reason not to believe Durandal due to Durandal keeping that stuff out of sight or labeling those against him as traitors.

Hell, Athrun believed in Durandal as well up until Durandal decided to get rid of Athrun.

Aren't all teens idiots in some ways? Its part of maturing/growing up

Though of course his mentorship, relations, and past just made things worse

[I am Gundam 10]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Shinn isn't an idiot, he's a young teenager who had bad role models. Athrun tried to teach him but than the next moment he was randomly smacking Shinn around or yelling at him when Shinn was merely doing his job. Not very helpful having a Tsundere Mentor that physically abuses his student. Thus it was easy for his best friend, Rey, to manipulate him to Durandal's faction as Durandal sung praises of Shinn, promoted him left and right, gave him two of his top Gundam models, and was a father figure to Shinn who had lost his family in the last war.

If Shinn didn't believe in Durandal after all that than he would have been a poorly written character since Shinn is never really shown any reason not to believe Durandal due to Durandal keeping that stuff out of sight or labeling those against him as traitors.

Hell, Athrun believed in Durandal as well up until Durandal decided to get rid of Athrun.

Wow I guess you did reply to what I said good.
First of all Athrun didn't randomly smack him or yell at him he did hit him cause Shinn refuse to follow orders from him who was a superior officer in rank and is also a member of Faith even though what he did was right and second of all I do believe Shinn is an idiot simply because he believes he is always right and how he blames the Cagalli and her father for his parent's death when one way or another war would come to ORB either from ZAFT or Earth Alliance

[Destined_Fate]

I wouldn't call him an idiot. Shinn was pretty smart and skilled, he just had to grow up with a harsh past(that's still fresh in his mind), tended to be overly emotional, and he desperately wanted a father figure which he got from Athrun and later Durandal when he was lead to believe Athrun had betrayed not only them but the trust that Shinn had in Athrun. Which is extremely painful since Shinn has trouble trusting people already or making friends due to his attitude so to have the guy he admired and saw as a father figure(Athrun) be labeled a traitor? That would do a number on anyone.

Originally Posted by I am Gundam 10

Wow I guess you did reply to what I said good.
First of all Athrun didn't randomly smack him or yell at him he did hit him cause Shinn refuse to follow orders from him who was a superior officer in rank and is also a member of Faith even though what he did was right and second of all I do believe Shinn is an idiot simply because he believes he is always right and how he blames the Cagalli and her father for his parent's death when one way or another war would come to ORB either from ZAFT or Earth Alliance

Yes he did, Athrun was very abusive to Shinn and sent him mixed messages all the time. Athrun also getting angry at Shinn for following orders and defeating the Freedom was a huge mess up as well as Athrun never once told Shinn about Kira or explain how Kira thinks or even works. So why would Shinn treat Kira as anything more than the enemy that killed Stella and he was ordered to kill due to the Archangel refusing to surrender?

Shinn was never given all the info, as far as he knew him following Durandal WAS right. Furthermore, Shinn disobeying orders early on to help people turned out to be the right decision.

Remember that a lot of the bad was hidden from Shinn and Athrun never told him about it. Such as after liberating a country from the Feds they treat Shinn as a Hero and as he's distracted they quietly lead the Fed captured officers away and murder them without a trial without Shinn's knowledge. Athrun saw this but kept it to himself.

Shinn is also right to blame Cagalli as she's the face of ORB and right or wrong Cagalli's father's actions ended up with a lot of death. That and Cagalli's father was so short sighted that he dragged his inner circle with him for a mass suicide thus leaving only corrupt and weak willed people behind that all sided together, for various reasons, to steal the Country from Cagalli. That and Cagalli's father was an idiot for keeping Cagalli betrothed to Yuna.

You also cannot say that another war would have killed Shinn's parents or not. We don't know that, what we do know is that because ORB resisted in the last war and refused ZAFT help it ended up causing the deaths of Shinn's parents and sister. Thus why Shinn hates ORB, and at the start of Destiny his hate is 100% justified because of what happens at ORB which Cagalli isn't able to prevent. Even Lunamaria, who tends to keep Shinn in line or scold him, agreed that Shinn was right about ORB and that her view of Cagalli had changed for the worse because of what happened.

[I am Gundam 10]

Can you blame Athrun for being angry at Shinn cause he presumely killed his best friend and when up to him and said 'I took revenge for you too' when clearly every ZAFT soldier knows that Athrun was close with Kira and the Archangel and that idiot smiling senselessly at him for destroying the Freedom and Athrun being angry at that point was definitely not random because Shinn was perhaps unintentionally provoking his sadness but the whole following orders to destroy the Freedom does not make him an idiot it is the fact that he smiled in front of Athrun senselessly for destroying the Freedom that makes him an idiot I mean let's face it if someone killed your best friend and smiled at your face how would you feel I would do the exact same thing Athrun did.
And Cagalli's Father might be wrong about not having ZAFT's help but blaming Cagalli and ORB for his family's death is stupid because it was not even their fault and besides Cagalli's father cannot read the future or think that far ahead when he has to contend with the war one way or another war will come to ORB and if Shinn wants to blame someone it would be the Earth Alliance
not ORB and telling Shinn about Kira would not made a difference he would just ignore it and think he is right and nothing would have change the outcome with that idiot stubborness thinking he is always right and I call him an idiot because he acts like one not because of intellect or skill.

[Destined_Fate]

yes I can, he was unprofessional and he never once tried to get Shinn to understand or sympathize with Kira at all. To Shinn, Kira was an enemy that had constantly been screwing things up for them. Hell Shinn even tells Athrun that he avenged his honor which in fact he did do by defeating Kira. Athrun getting mad at Shinn and berating him so harshly in front of everyone, which only servd to confused everyone as everyone was calling Shinn a Hero at that moment, helped push Shinn even further away from him and into Durandal's grasp.

That's not true, Kira being the pilot of the Freedom was NOT common knowledge. Everyone in the Minerva had no idea who the pilot really was except Rey, Athrun, and maybe Talia. Rey obviously kept that a secret from Shinn as Shinn doesn't learn who the pilot even if until after Destiny is over. Thus why everyone praised Shinn and he was hailed by a Hero by everyone but Athrun as they didn't have any real connection to Kira and only saw him as the troublemaker that constantly messed with them and got Heine killed and trashed the Savior.

No it isn't stupid. If our nation was invaded and we know that the President refused assistance and later commited mass suicide to avoid responsibility of a trial you know people would be angry. Especially since Cagalli was only ruling ORB because she had the same blood of that man not because she was voted in or that she had the skills needed for it. As Destiny had shown Cagalli was not yet ready to rule yet and the far more experienced politicians manipulated Cagalli rather easily. Hell, she was even treated as a child in front of her own soldiers.

Shinn doesn't act like an idiot because as far as he knew he was right and Durandal and Rey constantly manipulated him through praise, promotions, and the such. Hell when Stella was dying it was Rey who helped Shinn and it was Durandal who decided that they should be free to go thus earning huge cookie points for them to Shinn.

[I am Gundam 10]

Why should he in the first place? Shinn would not listen because he killed Stella who he (Shinn) apparently fells in love with and probably would not listen plus we all know Rey supports him and would just bring up a convincing speech to manipulate Shinn to continue hating the Freedom and yes everybody in ZAFT knew he was close to the Archangel and the Freedom even though they do not know who the pilot or maybe it is just Shinn and a few ZAFT members that didn't care and didn't know that about him then yes you are right I guess Shinn is not senseless as painfully as I have to admit.

You still cannot blame Cagalli of the actions of a dead man who probably just wanted to stand up for his beliefs and ideals which I think he was too idealistic because war will affect everyone involved or not and the only people who treated her like a child is Yuna and his father who simply use weak minded ORB politics to support him to try and control ORB to join the Earth Alliance and blaming Cagalli for the actions of a dead man is stupid and this is why Shinn is an idiot.

Durandal and Rey did a wonderful job manipulating Shinn in a way that he would not listen to anybody else but like I said before he is senseless because when Athrun does try to reason with him he refuses to listen and keeps listening to the BS of Rey but Athrun tried to reason with him too late but at that point he was a complete idiot for not listening to reason and he does not even know what he is fighting for anyway and yes I still think he is an idiot because of his attitude cause he acts like a 9 year old screaming, yelling if you want to talk about unprofessional then Shinn is the most unprofessional soldier I have ever seen but you brought up good points man never seen it the way you do, you are the only person I know so far that debates with me for this long.

[Aquaman OS]

There was really nothing Athrun could have said. Shinn had zero sympathy for Orb (in fact he was almost gleeful at the chance to attack them and take his anger out) and he wasn't interested in Athrun trying to teach him the Clyne Factions forgiving pacifist ways. Enemies were bastards that deserved to die in his opinion, and Athrun's attempt to go easy on them just gave Shinn the impression Athrun was an overated pilot who wasn't all that skilled.

Even when its pointed out that Freedom doesn't kill people he doesn't percieve it as Kira being merciful, but Kira being arrogant. Shinn was just wired differently than Kira and Athrun and it shows.

[I am Gundam 10]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

There was really nothing Athrun could have said. Shinn had zero sympathy for Orb (in fact he was almost gleeful at the chance to attack them and take his anger out) and he wasn't interested in Athrun trying to teach him the Clyne Factions forgiving pacifist ways. Enemies were bastards that deserved to die in his opinion, and Athrun's attempt to go easy on them just gave Shinn the impression Athrun was an overated pilot who wasn't all that skilled.

Even when its pointed out that Freedom doesn't kill people he doesn't percieve it as Kira being merciful, but Kira being arrogant. Shinn was just wired differently than Kira and Athrun and it shows.

Exactly couldn't said it better myself

[Skye629]

Newe....ahem "remastered" episode out

-Return of the stock footage! Whatever........
-Subs are close to useless when MS's aside from transport and stealth
-Huh....forgot/didn't know ZAKUs could function underwater....
-Shinn went a bit out of line in terms of following orders, but I cant fault him on this one, though I will say that if he asked Athrun's/Tallia's permission to liberate the base/take out its defenses it probably would have been granted

Does anyone know if the Windam Neo pilots a different/upgraded model over the standard ones by any chance? (love the Windam design btw)

[I am Gundam 10]

Originally Posted by Skye629

Newe....ahem "remastered" episode out

-Return of the stock footage! Whatever........
-Subs are close to useless when MS's aside from transport and stealth
-Huh....forgot/didn't know ZAKUs could function underwater....
-Shinn went a bit out of line in terms of following orders, but I cant fault him on this one, though I will say that if he asked Athrun's/Tallia's permission to liberate the base/take out its defenses it probably would have been granted

Does anyone know if the Windam Neo pilots a different/upgraded model over the standard ones by any chance? (love the Windam design btw)

Not sure if it is different but Neo's Windam seems more upgraded as it can seperate his weapons to move and attack from different directions.

[quagmire]

So they didn't fix the problem being the only good thing Athrun is good at with the Savior is transforming...... Bummer.

[HiddenMessage]

Did he kill one of them at the 18:38 mark?

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by HiddenMessage

Did he kill one of them at the 18:38 mark?

A random grunt? Even Cagalli could take on a random non-Orb grunt while crying.....

Give him anyone with a decent amount of skill, and he just transforms all the time.

[Blazer-X]

Yeah, bummer on the transformation spam. I was really looking forward to Athrun getting a few more kills with the Saviour in the remaster. Part of me wish they could just retcon the episode 28 battle with Saviour disabling Chaos instead of Freedom. Such a wasted suit otherwise...

[Aquaman OS]

Unfortunately Shinn has to hog all the kills so he starts thinking Athrun sucks to drive the rift between them that will fuel their rivalry later.

That and to show the vital difference in their mentalities. Athrun believes the enemy just has to be held off until they give up the will to keep fighting (hence him keeping Sting at a standstill) while Shinn thinks the enemy needs to be crushed. This is also why Athrun was against Shinn continuing to blow up the base long after it was clear the soliders were helpless against him.

Just another example of why Athrun returning to Zaft was a big mistake.

[HiddenMessage]

I wasn't questioning his abilities for that particular match up. I was wondering why he went for the kill when he's one of those "no kill" pilots like Kira.

@Blazer-X: It does seem weird how his skills seem so off after all that hype about him being a sharpshooter and all. Makes me wonder if Freedom/Justice have Aim-Bots.