Rasengan+Kuchiyose

[Hentai Guy]

Originally Posted by Rurik

I think Rasengan does consume a lot of Chakra, but for Naruto this is just a work in the park.

The exact amount of chakra can be debated, but it has been flat-out stated that the chakra used in Rasengan is less than that of Chidori.

Originally Posted by Kotengu

Every time I've seen a sucessful complete rasengan -not including the 1st time Jirya busted it out against the uber weak ninthug- It starts in tinny ball form and then once it hits it 'explodes'(for lack of a better term) and engulfs the target in a giant rotaing ball of violently spinning chakra. It's much more obvious if you've played any of Nauto games for gamecube cuz you see it in a butload of different angles.

You can't count the video games as cannon... Yeah, there is an explosion effect, but that seems to be more incidental...or, probably more correctly, the after effect. The power is derived from the spin, not the explosion.

Originally Posted by Ziv

It's just that the chakra you use for rasengan doesn't need to be molded. It's just pure chakra.

Well...seeing as how molding chakra is required to use it in ninjutsu, it is fairly obvious that the Rasengan is molded chakra. If you are actively manipulating it, you're molding it. Even using chakra to augment taijutsu as Lee does is a form of chakra molding.

Originally Posted by Yellowflash221

Being a Yondaime fan I have to step in and correct you. Jiraiya said Yondaime was as bad/stubborn as Naruto. He said he didn't want to train Sasuke because he doesn't like training a genius. He said he prefers training an idiot than a genius.

Jiraiya has told us that Yondaime was just like Naruto but Yondaime became better. Naruto has got to improve a lot to reach Yondaime's leve; but it's not impossible seeing as Yondaime was just like Naruto.

I think Naruto has made remarkable progress...considering that he's one of the strongest and most inventive ninjas of his generation who has been able to perform several Kage level feats and surpass at least one of the greatest Jonin of Konohagakure. Yeah, he's still a bit of an idiot at times, and he has a long way to go...but that's why I think it's all the more impressive...he hasn't peaked yet. I think it's no leap to assume that Naruto will reach/surpass the level of Yondaime.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Hentai Guy

The exact amount of chakra can be debated, but it has been flat-out stated that the chakra used in Rasengan is less than that of Chidori.

No.

_____________

[Hentai Guy]

Originally Posted by Hunter

No.

"Because it uses far less chakra in comparison, it doesn't carry the same over-use risk as the One Thousand Birds."

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Hentai Guy

"Because it uses far less chakra in comparison, it doesn't carry the same over-use risk as the One Thousand Birds."

Where did you get that statement from? Not saying it's false, I just don't remember it.

Edit: Never mind. That is mentioned in the Rasengan's description article.

[Hunter]

And like I said : no.
This is merely a fan-made article in wikipedia, neither the manga nor the Databook state anything of the sort.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Hunter

And like I said : no.
This is merely a fan-made article in wikipedia, neither the manga nor the Databook state anything of the sort.

True. People have cited fan-made info from Naruto Forums and narutocentral.com too. The stuff in wiki is mostly accurate, but because it can be edited by anyone, you can't be sure when referencing something that's not in the manga.

But I was more just interested in where he got the statement rather than confirming it to be true or not.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by othafa

Rurik, your logic doesn't make any sense. Rasengan takes up far less chakra capacity than chidori. Whoever said that rasengan was basically a technique that initiates/contains a large amount of chaotic spinning forces was closer to right.

So, In what part my logic doesn’t make much sense?

First of, I never made a comparison of chakra consumption between Chidory and Rasengan, the only comparison I made was that if they clashed, the one with more chakra should win. and actually, that could be wrong

Spoiler:

because my post was made before the information about Elemental Recomposition and Shape Manipulation.

And then, you don’t know if rasengan takes “far less” chakra than Chidory, or the amount of Chakra Rasengan consumes. My point is that most probably rasengan takes a lot of Chakra.

The idea of the second stage of learning the technique, wherein naruto must apply 100% "power" does not refer to releasing as much chakra as possible. The idea was simply that he spin the chakra as fast as he possibly can.

I never said that "100% power" was referring to the amount of Chakra been released, what I did imply was that keeping up that 100% power should be an indication of a high Chakra consumption.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by Hunter

And like I said : no.
This is merely a fan-made article in wikipedia, neither the manga nor the Databook state anything of the sort.

You don't need a direct quote from anything. Just think it through. I also think you need to stop just saying "no" without backing up your reasoning. Just because the manga doesn't say it implicitly doesn't mean it couldn't be true.

Chidori is pure chakra, where rasengan is merely the manipulation of an element--- the shinobi's main focus is the spinning motion of the water instead of having to maintain a huge amount of pure chakra into a blade is their hand. This is assuming the shinobi actually conjures up water first --- if it's just pure chakra, it could go either way.

Like Rurik, I'm just attempting to reason it out. I'm not saying for certain that it takes far less chakra, but since there is definitely a suggestion that it does, it would be fair to say that at least there's a good chance that rasengan uses up less. And, a bit off topic, despite what Jiraiya said to naruto about rasengan being more powerful than chidori, I can't help thinking that they are more or less the same except in how they disperse their damage (chidori cuts/stabs like a blade, while rasengan is, as someone aptly put, a cheese grater).

Well, not that I'm an expert or anything, but that's what i've deduced to the extent of my knowledge and ability to extrapolate on known facts.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

You don't need a direct quote from anything. Just think it through. I also think you need to stop just saying "no" without backing up your reasoning. Just because the manga doesn't say it implicitly doesn't mean it couldn't be true.

I don't think Hunter was saying that it couldn't be true, he was objecting to someone stating that it is definite fact and because it hasn't been mentioned or implied in the manga or databook.

Chidori is pure chakra, where rasengan is merely the manipulation of an element--- the shinobi's main focus is the spinning motion of the water instead of having to maintain a huge amount of pure chakra into a blade is their hand. This is assuming the shinobi actually conjures up water first --- if it's just pure chakra, it could go either way.

Both are pure chakra.

Spoiler for Chidori/Rasengan:

One involves element manipulation (chidori) on the chakra and the other involves spatial manipulation (rasengan).

Making the water spin in a balloon was just the first step in the training. Full Rasengan consists of concentrating chakra onto one spot on the palm and then making that chakra spin wildly within a contained radius, not just in one direction, but in every direction. Jiraiya noted that the force needed in going into the second step (out of three steps, I think) is several times greater than the first step(making the water spin). Naruto had to use an extensive amount of chakra to accomplish just the second step, which was popping a rubber ball with his chakra. So much that Naruto stated he felt pain from using so much chakra at once.

Like Rurik, I'm just attempting to reason it out. I'm not saying for certain that it takes far less chakra, but since there is definitely a suggestion that it does, it would be fair to say that at least there's a good chance that rasengan uses up less. And, a bit off topic, despite what Jiraiya said to naruto about rasengan being more powerful than chidori, I can't help thinking that they are more or less the same except in how they disperse their damage (chidori cuts/stabs like a blade, while rasengan is, as someone aptly put, a cheese grater).

Well, not that I'm an expert or anything, but that's what i've deduced to the extent of my knowledge and ability to extrapolate on known facts.

Really, I don't see any evidence suggesting which one uses more chakra. I do remember Sakura and Zabuza (I think) remarking on how Chidori has such a large concentration of chakra that it actually becomes visible. Since the Rasengan also causes the chakra to become visible, that suggests it has a comparable amount of chakra within it.

I'd say you're spot-on about the types of damage though.

[Hunter]

First pay more attention to your spoilers guys. This isn't a [Manga] thread I don't want to see informations yet to be revealed in the anime out of spoiler tags.

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

You don't need a direct quote from anything. Just think it through. I also think you need to stop just saying "no" without backing up your reasoning. Just because the manga doesn't say it implicitly doesn't mean it couldn't be true.

There is no reasoning needed here, I was merely stating a fact or rather a lack there of. Hentai Guy said it was stated that the Rasengan uses much less chakra than the Chidori and since it wasn't I said : no.

Now if you want my personal opinion on the subject I do not think that the Rasengan is more chakra-friendly than the Chidori because

Spoiler for Chidori/Rasengan:

The Chidori isn't just chakra it's a jutsu that combines Ligthning Elemental Manipulation with Shape Manipulation whereas Rasengan is just very high Shape Manipulation.
Combining these two forms of chakra control increases enormously the attack power of a jutsu, hence why the Chidori could draw with the Rasengan whereas the Rasengan makes more effective use of chakra.
When you compare the effect of the Rasengan with the Fuuton Rasengan the difference of power is easily shown and this difference is huge.
We also learned that Kakashi can use the Rasengan as well but still relies on the Chidori whereas he has a mediocre stamina which make absolutely no sense if the Rasengan really used significantly less chakra.

We know that the Rasengan uses huge amount of chakra, it's been stated when Naruto learned the jutsu, the only reason it has been believed that it required less chakra was because Naruto could use many, many Rasengan a day whereas Kakashi was stuck at 4 Chidori.
Well, we also know now that Naruto has 100 times more chakra than Kakashi so this explains that.

[Nice Gai]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Yeah, and if it did, I really doubt that Jiraiya would be able to use it. (By "it", I assume you were referring to the rasengan)

yes,i was indeed referring to the rasengan.

the reason why naruto was taught summoning and rasengan was because jiraiya knew that naruto has the potential to learn them.And IF naruto is able to learn them and learns how to use the kyuubi chakra,then these jutsus will be immensly helpful to naruto for defending himself.
the only thing thing that jiraiya didn't know was that naruto will be able to learn these so quickly.he probably thought that atleast the rasengan will take several years to master.

And didn't jiraiya say that he enjoys teaching students who are not so talented ,but persitent.

And this whole thing has nothing to with naruto's chakra level.Specially for rasengan.
i mean, give me a break!rasengan is an A ranked jutsu.
jutsus are ranked on the basis of their difficulty level,not chakra level.normal jounin level techniques are B-ranked and naruto learned the kage bunshin after just reading a scroll!Even the 3rd was impressed.

there is no mention about rasengan consuming a whole lot of chakra.Atleast, there is no mention that rasengan consumes more chakra than chidori even in the manga.And even summons can be disobedient,so you need some talent to show them that you are a worthy user.

i still see kyuub chakra+ rasengan +gamabunta to be one of the most outstanding combinations in part1.Had naruto used all three of them and used them against sasuke with the intent to do some sereious damage to sasuke,even sasuke with CS2 would have lost.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

What is kage bunshin? The shadow clone jutsu?

[Rahan]

Sorry to post on-topic (I mean, I don't want to enter the compare the Chidori and Rasengan's chakra cost contest)

Didn't Jiraiya teach Naruto Kuchiyose because the large amount of chakra the big summons cost would force him to unleash Kyuubi's chakra ?
I have not reread that part in a long time, but AFAIR, he didn't give a fuck about Naruto summoning frogs, he just wanted Naruto to use his "red" chakra.

The Rasengan is a different matter. He knew powerful guys were after Naruto, so he had to teach him a powerful move, which didn't require Naruto learning elements (remember he really sucked at handseals and it was only roughly about 6 months since Naruto learnt what chakra was)

I don't really think feelings about the Fourth were involved here. However, the pattern is so obvious that most of the ninjas of Kakashi's generation or older who are in contact with Naruto must be expecting him to come up with Hiraishin someday.

[Yellowflash221]

Originally Posted by Rahan

Sorry to post on-topic (I mean, I don't want to enter the compare the Chidori and Rasengan's chakra cost contest)

Didn't Jiraiya teach Naruto Kuchiyose because the large amount of chakra the big summons cost would force him to unleash Kyuubi's chakra ?
I have not reread that part in a long time, but AFAIR, he didn't give a fuck about Naruto summoning frogs, he just wanted Naruto to use his "red" chakra.

The Rasengan is a different matter. He knew powerful guys were after Naruto, so he had to teach him a powerful move, which didn't require Naruto learning elements (remember he really sucked at handseals and it was only roughly about 6 months since Naruto learnt what chakra was)

I don't really think feelings about the Fourth were involved here. However, the pattern is so obvious that most of the ninjas of Kakashi's generation or older who are in contact with Naruto must be expecting him to come up with Hiraishin someday.

Lol. Naruto using Haraishin!!!??

I want Naruto to do something original not copy the 4th's jutsu. Haraishin is cool but it's Yondaime's move and it would suck if Naruto could use it too.
Naruto should come up with some strong jutsu of his own. I'd respect him a lot more if he made his own original move rather than using the 4th's.

[ragnos007]

I think it would have been both cool and funny if Naruto summoned Gamabunta in his chuunin exam against Neiji. LOL. Izumo and Kotetsu, already being surprised at naruto using kage bushin would have shit themselves. And Neiji - he would have died from the weight of gamabunta. Funny Funny

[amOKchen]

He could at least have summoned some normal sized toads, like thoose Jiraiya stand on all the time.
They seem to have some decent ninja abilities.