Why male characters often push away willing girls?

[Gamer_2k4]

Originally Posted by asaqe

Failing that, making out under the bleachers/rooftop/convinience store backalley works damn well as a substitute for actual sex.

That's a surprising point of view. The two are both nice, sure, but they're not really anywhere close to being the same thing.

[Chiibi]

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

...what the hell did you expect?

I dunno....but I just think it's very sad that male teens' worth is measured by how many girls they've 'done'. On the other hand, if a GIRL was seen having sex with lots of guys, she would be called "a trashy whore" by her friends.
WUT?
BOTH SEXES WOULD BE TRASHY WHORES. You're gonna damn one? Then damn the other as well!

It just bugs me....I mean why would guys value each other for being immoral?

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

(As a side note, some people claimed they fucked 100 girls for some reason...not that anyone believed it.)

Well, I guess that's not impossible; Julia the Elder was rumored to have slept with 80,000 men, at a time where that would have constituted about 0.5 percent of the entire world's population.

I agree with what Triple just said. Most girls don't offer no strings attached sex, so the protagonist would totally crush them if he got intimate with them despite not returning their feelings, and some of the girls who don't expect anything serious in return are just nasty (See: Rika from Boku wa Tomodachi). Having an overly eager floozy throw herself at you really isn't always appealing.

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Well, I guess that's not impossible; Julia the Elder was rumored to have slept with 80,000 men, at a time where that would have constituted about 0.5 percent of the entire world's population.

Well, we didn't exactly have oil barons, royals or billionaires either...

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

It just bugs me....I mean why would guys value each other for being immoral?

First, not all guys value themselves or others by that standard. Secondly, those who do don't consider it immoral. As for people damning only women for such acts, well that's just the societies mentality - even if things have become better, men are still thought to be superior to women.

[speedyexpress48]

Everyone here has sex in high school...if you don't, you are considered a loser. Not just my high school....I can say that for 90% of the High Schools in a 100-mile radius.

I would get more personal, but like I said...

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

(If I get too personal, most of you would probably kill me, even though I wasn't exactly a harem king )

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

Everyone here has sex in high school...if you don't, you are considered a loser. Not just my high school....I can say that for 90% of the High Schools in a 100-mile radius.

Things were the same at my school, and I'd wager that most high schools have the same attitude, but who really cares what a bunch of dumbass kids think, high schools have always been a cesspool whose main purpose is to bring together terrible people that make Youtube commenters appear to have the wisdom of Socrates and intelligence of Aristole in comparison

The full text of the High School Coolness Code you refer to probably reads something along the lines of "You are a loser unless you fuck random strangers every weekend, spend less than 90 percent of your free time outside school drunk or high, speak more than two sentences to your parents per month, and engage in conversation for any other purpose than to talk badly about people or fill the background with vapid white noise"

My brother-in-law started his own business at the age of 12 and is an incredibly charismatic, outgoing person, but I guess he's a loser because he wanted to save himself for marriage instead of sticking his dick in some random STD-infested slut, lol

(This post isn't aimed at speedyexpress btw, just high schools in general for being terrible and having the attitude he mentioned)

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

My brother-in-law started his own business at the age of 12 and is an incredibly charismatic, outgoing person, but I guess he's a loser because he wanted to save himself for marriage instead of sticking his dick in some random STD-infested slut, lol

That's a proud thing to share about... the only memorable things that is important in highschool is having "real friends" that will accompany you in mutual progress.

[Gamer_2k4]

Originally Posted by Chiibi

I dunno....but I just think it's very sad that male teens' worth is measured by how many girls they've 'done'. On the other hand, if a GIRL was seen having sex with lots of guys, she would be called "a trashy whore" by her friends.
WUT?
BOTH SEXES WOULD BE TRASHY WHORES. You're gonna damn one? Then damn the other as well!

It just bugs me....I mean why would guys value each other for being immoral?

There are three explanations for that, with varying degrees of validity.

1. A key that opens a lot of locks is great, while a lock that's opened by a lot of keys is pretty lousy.
2. Guys are supposed to want sex all the time, so doing lots of girls means they're fulfilling their prerogative. Girls are suppose to want sex only selectively, so doing lots of guys means they're acting counter to their prerogative.
3. Having sex with a ton of people means you're a slut no matter what gender you are.

I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine which one I believe.

[warita]

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

There are three explanations for that, with varying degrees of validity.[LIST=1][*]A key that opens a lot of locks is great, while a lock that's opened by a lot of keys is pretty lousy.

I heard this before

.... who exactly gets to decide that the guy is the key and the girl is the lock, or more importantly WHY THE HELL DO GUYS COMPARE A GIRL TO A LOCK?? Excuse me, but I am a human being, not a lock, I can decide how much sex I will have and why would guys have more rights in matters of sex than girls anyways???? Just because they seem to have a higher sex drive, they have monopoly on sex?

Anyways....

The full text of the High School Coolness Code you refer to probably reads something along the lines of "You are a loser unless you fuck random strangers every weekend, spend less than 90 percent of your free time outside school drunk or high, speak more than two sentences to your parents per month, and engage in conversation for any other purpose than to talk badly about people or fill the background with vapid white noise"

I also went to high school and I bet some sex took place, but I dont remember people talking about it. You wouldnt look like a loser, if you simply didnt talk about your sex life, as simple as that. And if somebody gets pushy, then all you need to do is to ask him to respect your privacy.

As for the dude who postulated, that every normal thinking guy would NEVER refuse a willing girl...... I want to ask, why should he? How immature and primitive is that attitude?
I am gonna be naive here and say, that even guys have a sense of self worth and they dont jump into bed with EVERY willing girl. Of course they sometimes do, when they feel like it, but there is no obligation to do that and some might feel turned off by how the woman pretty much assumes, that he will do her, just because she has shown interest. I would be anyways. I hate when women hit on a guy and expect sex to happen and I know that sometimes guys DO SAY NO and the girl is mortally insulted... I mean, how does he dare to refuse her??


I would also like to ask the person who opened this thread to kindly stop calling guys with sense of morality gays. That is as primitive as his ideas about willing girls and sex.

[Gamer_2k4]

Originally Posted by warita

.... who exactly gets to decide that the guy is the key and the girl is the lock, or more importantly WHY THE HELL DO GUYS COMPARE A GIRL TO A LOCK?? Excuse me, but I am a human being, not a lock, I can decide how much sex I will have and why would guys have more rights in matters of sex than girls anyways???? Just because they seem to have a higher sex drive, they have monopoly on sex?

Please don't make me explain why each gender maps to the device they do, because I can't do it without sounding condescending. And don't overthink the analogy, either; you may remember that I said the explanations had "varying degrees of validity." The key/lock one is simplistic and makes simplistic sense, but it's also not really the correct way of looking at things.

Beyond that, just calm down and don't take everything so personally. You'll find that almost everyone actually agrees with what you believe, so stop looking for opportunities to get offended and just add your point of view to the discussion.

[monsta666]

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

Please don't make me explain why each gender maps to the device they do, because I can't do it without sounding condescending. And don't overthink the analogy, either; you may remember that I said the explanations had "varying degrees of validity." The key/lock one is simplistic and makes simplistic sense, but it's also not really the correct way of looking at things.

Whilst it is true that nearly all analogies have limits on how far they can applied a analogy must be able to cover the basic ground well to be considered good. If the analogy cannot cover the basic ground then then the analogy is poor. While the lock and key description has a nice sound bite it does overlook a big aspect and that is in making the woman the lock, it makes an assumption that it is the woman who decides when sex happens occurs while the guy attempts to 'unlock her' as you will. So the basic premise of this analogy kind of rests on that assumption which I would argue shouldn't be the case.

Furthermore the easy lock is seen in a negative light whereas a flexible key is seen as positive thing (conventional thinking dictates that flexible keys are good). So by using this analogy you are promoting - intentional or otherwise - that a guy who can have sex with many partners is a positive thing as they are a flexible key. Now, I believe this was not your intention but then that would mean the analogy is weak because the basic premise does not reflect even a approximation of how things should be.

At the end of the day sex is a mutual activity were both parties decide when it happens. Guys should take responsibility about their urges, they are not animals or slaves to their hormones. They should also know what they want. If you want to have sex early in a relationship that is fine. But it is rather hypocritical to have sex early on and then say the woman is loose unless you can agree that you are loose too. At the end of the day it takes two to tango. I will also say in this kind of dynamic the women can't win. I mean if she sleeps early then she is not relationship material but many guys will also give up if she doesn't put out early and call her a prude (it is common enough that I even hear stuff about a 3 date rule). So what is a girl supposed to do to avoid being put in a difficult place?

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by warita

I also went to high school and I bet some sex took place, but I dont remember people talking about it. You wouldn't look like a loser, if you simply didnt talk about your sex life, as simple as that. And if somebody gets pushy, then all you need to do is to ask him to respect your privacy.

Same in my school. To be honest, I was ignorant about sex and the opposite sex in my high school days that's why "we" were marked perverts for watching porn magazines and movies. But though I was, I don't agree that not having sex or not losing your virginity in high school makes you a loser. What the point in going to high school anyway? For sex?

A man who knows how to control his animal instinct is human. But a man who follows the instinct of an animal, truly is an animal.

[warita]

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

You'll find that almost everyone actually agrees with what you believe, so stop looking for opportunities to get offended and just add your point of view to the discussion.

My bad, I didnt mean to attack you, I just borrowed that quote from you.

I mainly have a problem with the post of the person who opened this thread. It is a sad read when you read things like:

1) Since when are guys expected to behave morally
2) What normal guy doesnt act upon his urges
3) all guys who dont must be gay (as a matter of fact, I think there are gay people in this forum, so this is an insult not only to females, right?)

Yes, I shouldnt get so upset.... I cant change the world, as much as I would want to. But it saddens me to hear such things, because in the end, I have to live in this world and I am exposed to this way of thinking on a daily basis and believe me, attitudes like this doesnt make it easy to establish a relationship these days. So yeah, I am taking this personally, because it is affecting me personally and thats why a girl can actually feel deeply wounded by such words.

[Gamer_2k4]

Originally Posted by monsta666

lots and lots of analysis of key-and-lock comparison

That seems like a very long way of saying, "The key/lock one is simplistic and makes simplistic sense, but it's also not really the correct way of looking at things." (You know, that thing I ended my post with).

Believe me, I'm very aware of the analogy's shortcomings. I also think it's the best way to describe stereotypical society's view on sex.

[Chiibi]

A key that opens a lot of locks is great, while a lock that's opened by a lot of keys is pretty lousy.

Originally Posted by warita

I heard this before

.... who exactly gets to decide that the guy is the key and the girl is the lock, or more importantly WHY THE HELL DO GUYS COMPARE A GIRL TO A LOCK??

You know....I suddenly had a Robin Hood: Men in Tights flashback when I read this...

[Ithekro]

"Call the Locksmith"

[Classified Info]

It looks like someone skipped this post:

Originally Posted by Classified Info

I noticed that someone misunderstood my words; on the other side, it's my fault for not being so much clear:

it may appear as generalizing when i said "Boys don't have morals, while girls are pure/delicate whatever and have to be conquered", but what i wanted to say was that i would rather see a random boy, with an appropriate perverted mind for his age, trying to conquer a girl, that looks like a princess. I find it more romantic that way, rather than a perverted and spoiled girl teasing non-stop an indifferent boy.

So, when i watch a romance with a boy as the protagonist, i tend to impersonate in the protagonist while he tries to conquer his beloved one, that is somehow hard to get to. When the girl is instead willing to do anything, ye well, it kinda ruins the fun but on the other side it's even worse that the protagonist rejects her, because many times that protagonist isn't that popular with girls, probably the unluckiest and horniest guy on earth, but when he gets a girl that likes him, he acts like a dick.

I hope to have made myself clearer; i didn't want to say that boys don't have morals at all: i actually am one of those with a huge respect towards other people, and specially when it comes to the female genre. On the other side, i understand that most of teenagers, at that age, think only about sex, and no matter how they try to control themselves, I find it hard to believe that such "boys"(referring to the unlucky horny ones) would reject such girls.

@Warita:
1) Since when are guys expected to behave morally - explained above
2) What normal guy doesnt act upon his urges - explained above
3) all guys who dont must be gay (as a matter of fact, I think there are gay people in this forum, so this is an insult not only to females, right?) - just where the hell did i imply such thing? Or are you just looking for something to be troubled about?

I perhaps understand that i put it out in a quite harsh way that could easily be misunderstood, so i'm at fault there, but there wasn't any bad meaning within. I apologize if the first post offended someone, i'll edit it.

To sum up, once again, the question is:
-Why do they show us such unreal situations, such as a hot girl teasing non-stop an indifferent guy(who is a perverted and unlucky one), rather than a "normal" boy trying to get to his beloved one, by hanging out with her, help her during sad/difficult moments, be loyal etc?

I think it would be more romantic, less frustrating and overall more satisfying the other way, don't you?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Classified Info

To sum up, once again, the question is:
-Why do they show us such unreal situations, such as a hot girl teasing non-stop an indifferent guy(who is a perverted and unlucky one), rather than a "normal" boy trying to get to his beloved one, by hanging out with her, help her during sad/difficult moments, be loyal etc?

I think it would be more romantic, less frustrating and overall more satisfying the other way, don't you?

I think the answer is because shows of this type aren't intended to be "romantic shows" as much as they're intended to be sex comedies. The humour is basically in how many sexual situations can be shown/implied without either the protagonist or the heroine losing their "purity". It operates on a sort of "the tease is more sensual than the act" principle, and the goal is basically to keep the tease going as long as possible, often including right up to and past the end of the show. The idea is to be fun and light-hearted the whole way through -- it's a show to put a smile on people's faces after a long day of school/work/etc.

There are shows that have elements like these but are trying to be more romantic. But having the protagonist select one partner typically means that other potential partners get hurt through rejection, and this introduces drama and "seriousness" to the narrative. There's certainly an audience for these types of shows as well, but it's slightly different from the romantic comedy. You might not end up with a smile on your face, but a tear in your eye.

So, basically, it's two different types of shows trying to appeal to two different sorts of needs/desires. Sometimes, some people just want a sex-tease comedy, and sometimes some people want a more serious romantic show. It depends on the person and what they're in the mood for. The one genre wouldn't necessarily be better if it were more like the other.

[kenjiharima]

Why male characters often push away willing girls?....

Probably a plot later for NTR, if you mostly watch H anime.