Zwei!! 2! Now with added Yukana and Wakamoto.

[Sety]

http://www.falcom.jp/zwei2/

The latest game from Falcom looking forward to it, also the trailers.

http://www.falcom.jp/zwei2/download.html

Wakamoto voicing the trailers, not sure if he'll be doing some major character in the game. Yukana will be voicing Alwen the lead female character. Also get a load of trailer ending extras. XD

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Sety

Wakamoto voicing the trailers, not sure if he'll be doing some major character in the game.

Yeah, he's doing Zahar, Arwen's uncle and likely the main villain. He's also doing superman Gallandou, the weight trainer.

Falcom whore as I am, I'm really looking forward to this. Not as much as I would be if it was Legend of Heroes 7 or Ys 7, admittedly, but still. The engine is definitely the one used in Gurumin, which I loved, but looks a lot more colourful, and everything else is looking like Falcom-standard fun. I have the original Zwei, I've never played it though.

[Sety]

I think this will be a massive improvement upon Zwei!! (For the record I didn't think Zwei!! wasn't terribly good) and even Gurumin for that matter (which on the other hand was great). It seems like they used the same engine for Gurumin but improved on it alot and given Falcom's recent track record for gameplay I have good hopes for this game.

Even if the game doesn't meet expectations the rule of thumb still applies for Falcom, even if the game isn't good the music will be amazing. Its no Ys/Legend of Heroes, but that gameplay trailer makes it look like they adapted some stuff from Oath in Felghan's style of gameplay into the Gurumin formula.

On a sidenote I found it funny I instantly recognized Yukana's voice sounds exactly like she does in Full Metal Panic as Tessa and Code Geass as C.C.

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Sety

Even if the game doesn't meet expectations the rule of thumb still applies for Falcom, even if the game isn't good the music will be amazing.

Hopefully. Have to say I wasn't that impressed with the theme song, but then again their vocal songs usually don't sit that well with me so that's nothing new. I liked quite a lot of the tracks from the original soundtrack (Serpentina probably being the most memorable), so if they replicate the usual this time I'll be more than happy.

Its no Ys/Legend of Heroes, but that gameplay trailer makes it look like they adapted some stuff from Oath in Felghan's style of gameplay into the Gurumin formula.

Well the thing I liked most about the recent Ys games has been the focus on doing all the bosses on one health bar and the intensity that comes with it, which I'm not expecting here. Same as Gurumin though all I really want out of this is a few days of solid fun and a quality soundtrack I can listen to happily months after finishing the game.

Shame most here won't play it because of the lack of an English version, though. Wakamoto can only go so far in selling people

[Sety]

Originally Posted by Valdra

Hopefully. Have to say I wasn't that impressed with the theme song, but then again their vocal songs usually don't sit that well with me so that's nothing new. I liked quite a lot of the tracks from the original soundtrack (Serpentina probably being the most memorable), so if they replicate the usual this time I'll be more than happy.

Well I didn't like that theme song much myself but the track they used in the first trailer was pretty spectacular. Very similar to the style of Zwei's main theme.

Same as Gurumin though all I really want out of this is a few days of solid fun and a quality soundtrack I can listen to happily months after finishing the game.

Probably why I'm anticipating the release, Falcom have not failed to deliver in any of those categories as of late. Good to see another Falcom fan around.

Shame most here won't play it because of the lack of an English version, though. Wakamoto can only go so far in selling people

I'm sold.

Back on track I do wish there would be a translation effort for some of the Falcom games they really do deserve one. I think only Sora no Kiseki 2nd and Oath in Felghana have received one, well Ys6 too but it got kind of butchered. Thats pretty much a shame because Ys Origins was absolutely amazing.

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Sety

Well I didn't like that theme song much myself but the track they used in the first trailer was pretty spectacular. Very similar to the style of Zwei's main theme.

Yeah, it seems to be an instrumental version of the main song actually, just a lot better. It's surprising to hear bagpipes actually sound good, reminds me of how they were used in one of the Gurumin final boss tracks. That was probably one of my favourites in the game.

Back on track I do wish there would be a translation effort for some of the Falcom games they really do deserve one. I think only Sora no Kiseki 2nd and Oath in Felghana have received one, well Ys6 too but it got kind of butchered. Thats pretty much a shame because Ys Origins was absolutely amazing.

Oath in Felghana got one, Ys 6... well, the less said about that the better. Sora First Chapter is being translated but really slowly, and they've actively refused to take on any more translators. I have no idea when or if they're even going to finish, and I'm even less certain they're ever going to progress onto Second Chapter. 3rd doesn't have a chance. Which is a shame, as Sora SC is definitely my favourite Falcom game, mostly because of the story and characters. I'd almost consider translating it myself - I think it's the only game I would have the will to do so - but between lack of a hacker and uncertainty over how to localise Kevin's Kansai accent I doubt I will. Maybe throw a text translation or something together at some point.

And yeah, I loved Origin too. Actually having protagonists with character and a plot, even if it was nothing deep, was a refreshing change for the series, as were the different gameplay styles. Plus the boss battles were even more awesome than Felghana's. It's been translated but the guy who did the hacking for the Felghana patch is being a drama queen so who knows if it'll ever be made into a patch and released.

[Sety]

but between lack of a hacker and uncertainty over how to localise Kevin's Kansai accent I doubt I will.

I always imagined kansai accents ending up something like Gambit's southern accent from X-Men for some reason...

To be honest I really didn't like FC at all, nothing happened it was literally a giant introduction to SC. SC was amazing, 3rd I heard had a really messed up story though but I don't know whether thats true. I did think 3rd played better than SC though which is a shame if its true.

With Ys Origins I found everything about it close to perfect except the graphical downgrade from the previous two games probably. But gameplay exceeded my expectations and Thor is a complete utter badass. Not to mention I absolutely loved how the separate sidestories managed to all meld into Thor's route and the extra final boss was a pleasant surprise. The remix of Termination alone was possibly one of the most amazing songs in that entire game next to the main theme.

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Sety

I heard had a really messed up story though but I don't know whether thats true. I did think 3rd played better than SC though which is a shame if its true.

Didn't understand it then? Wasn't quite sure from your posts whether you were Japanese literate or not. I'm not sure 'messed up' is the right way to describe it, though 3rd felt basically like a giant connecting vessel between LoH6 and 7 - which was pretty much what it was supposed to be. The Star Doors in particular had some really interesting stuff that's bound to be referenced again (Olivier's future plans, Renne's really sad backstory, stuff about the salt stake, little bits about Uroboros' science department and the Pater Mater trials, and so on). Really liked the development Kevin got too, while it was hinted at the end of SC there's a whole lot more to him than meets the eye. I never actually finished it though, I got up to the final dungeon after marathoning all 3 games for the first time then couldn't bear for it to end, so I left it. FC sucked me in with the characters and overall charm, though it definitely wasn't as eventful as either of the other two. Short of the ending cliffhanger, anyway, which was completely evil.

I don't know about a graphical downgrade in Origin though, it seemed a decent bit sharper to me, and other than that about the same. Shame Falcom are seemingly so against widescreen though, I'm quite content with the current graphics engine but the black borders are a bit annoying. Have a feeling they might be improving it though, would explain why the gap between Origin and Ys 7 seems like it'll be pretty long in comparison to previous ones (was about a year and half between 6 and Felghana, Felghana and Origin, and judging by their release schedule I'm not really expecting 7 until mid next year.)

[Sety]

Didn't understand it then? Wasn't quite sure from your posts whether you were Japanese literate or not.

Non-literate unfortunately but it doesn't really stop me from trying to enjoy them. Origins at least was straightforward enough to make out most of it, especially the nice twist at the end with Thor being the original writer of the books of Ys.

With SC I was just lucky somone has already written a mostly complete translation/summary faq of the important parts of the game so I'm slowly slugging through it while making out the basic gist of the story. However the problem is although FC and SC have both received alot of attention 3rd has been completely ignored so I have nothing really to base on except word of mouth and guessing from the little bits I do understand.

As for what I mentioned about the messed up aspect of 3rd. What I heard was the Liber Arc core at the end of SC which assume to be that cube in 3rd's opening just sorta ended up fusing with Kevin and because of that the story takes place in an imaginary world of sorts. Some clarification on that would be nice though since that sounds outright confusing. I know the floating city in SC had the ability to turn wishes into physical existance but if 3rd took place in a non-physical world that sounds very sidestoryish to me. One thing though I'd really like to know though is did 3rd explain at all how Kevin managed to remove the Sacred Mark from Joshua in SC?

Also to me Origins was smoother and sharper which helped with how hectic some boss fights got., looking at 4th boss battle mainly. But I can't help thinking that Oath in Felghana and Ark of Napishtim had more "wow, check out the view" moments. Origins only really impressive moment was the bridge just before the battle with Jenocross.

[Varion]

Not like anyone seems to be reading this thread anyway, but just in case seen as this is big bits of the endings of both SC and 3rd I'll use spoiler tags. Both of these are relying pretty heavily on my kinda poor memory though, I feel like replaying them sometime soon so if I'm wrong I'll amend them. My Japanese is a lot better than it was a year ago now anyway

Originally Posted by Sety

With SC I was just lucky somone has already written a mostly complete translation/summary faq of the important parts of the game so I'm slowly slugging through it while making out the basic gist of the story. However the problem is although FC and SC have both received alot of attention 3rd has been completely ignored so I have nothing really to base on except word of mouth and guessing from the little bits I do understand.

You mean the guides on gamefaqs, or somewhere else? I seem to remember finding those really disappointingly lacking when I read through that guide the first time, mostly because he'd done it half by memory and half by simply translating a Japanese guide. Better than understanding absolutely nothing though, definitely.

As for what I mentioned about the messed up aspect of 3rd. What I heard was the Liber Arc core at the end of SC which assume to be that cube in 3rd's opening just sorta ended up fusing with Kevin and because of that the story takes place in an imaginary world of sorts. Some clarification on that would be nice though since that sounds outright confusing. I know the floating city in SC had the ability to turn wishes into physical existance but if 3rd took place in a non-physical world that sounds very sidestoryish to me.

Spoiler:

Well it was only ever supposed to be a kinda sidestory in the first place. It was something like that, anyway. The recluse stone worked as a kind of playspace that the Aureole used to work its magic (it didn't 'turn wishes into physical existence' really, it was more akin to a cross between virtual reality and a really strong narcotic), which is why it was able to react to theirs when inside Phantasma. More specifically to Kevin's, and his inner desire to be punished for killing Rufina. I think that's why it 'attached' to him, though I can't remember. It could in theory have done so to anyone, I remember Olivier saying if it had attached to him they would've all ended up in a world of debaucherous parties. The story was nothing fantastic, overall, I found the character development and star door information more interesting than the actual plot of 3rd. I wasn't expecting Kevin to have such a bastard streak in him, for one thing, heh. All things said LoH7 is going to be pretty damn awesome, going by everything hinted in 3rd. The wait is murderous, and it's gonna be even worse if that isn't the end considering they seem to be leaving about 2-3 years between each game.

One thing though I'd really like to know though is did 3rd explain at all how Kevin managed to remove the Sacred Mark from Joshua in SC?

Spoiler:

No more than they did in SC, though the gamefaqs summary basically said nothing about it so... If I remember rightly, Kevin wasn't able to actually *remove* it as such, but he could interfere with it. So basically they guessed that Weismann would take control of Joshua again, and if he did he was almost guaranteed to make him try to kill Estelle. So they bet on that, and made it so that the moment Joshua was about to obey that instruction, the stigma would disappear. Poor Weismann's so easy to read.

[Sety]

You mean the guides on gamefaqs, or somewhere else? I seem to remember finding those really disappointingly lacking when I read through that guide the first time, mostly because he'd done it half by memory and half by simply translating a Japanese guide. Better than understanding absolutely nothing though, definitely.

Yeah I was using that but from the sound of things it seems like I missed quite alot then?

I remember Olivier saying if it had attached to him they would've all ended up in a world of debaucherous parties.

I so want that game...Olivier and his zany adventures, speaking of him Olivier gives me major Gilder vibes from Skies of Arcadia.

I found the character development and star door information more interesting than the actual plot of 3rd. I wasn't expecting Kevin to have such a bastard streak in him

You mentioned the Star Door's a few times, what are they? I sorta assume they were those giant glowy doors in the 3rd which I've occasionally seen in videos. (Haven't finished 3rd, its abit hard when you're illiterate) Also I got the impression Kevin did something to upset some people at one point but I didn't quite catch what it was. Makes me wish I could understand since it seemed like he was hiding alot of his personality throughout the story behind his laid backness.

If I remember rightly, Kevin wasn't able to actually *remove* it as such, but he could interfere with it.

Sort of confused there, at first I assumed what you meant was Kevin could intercept Weissman's command and pretend like it didn't work. But now it sounds like what you meant is he sort of laid out a trap for Weissman so activating it at that point caused the mark to dissappear? Is that right?

On a sidenote I rather like Riese.

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Sety

Yeah I was using that but from the sound of things it seems like I missed quite alot then?

Quite a bit, yeah. The FC one just basically listed how the chapters ended half the time rather than all the stuff that led up to them, and SC's had most of the important stuff but did skip things. And of course there's nothing for 3rd.

You mentioned the Star Door's a few times, what are they? I sorta assume they were those giant glowy doors in the 3rd which I've occasionally seen in videos. (Haven't finished 3rd, its abit hard when you're illiterate)

Yeah, those. There are 3 types distinguished by what symbol they have on them - sun doors are minigames, moon doors are long flashbacks, star doors are shorter ones. The star doors have some really interesting information in them, though, the most interesting of which is the 14th, "The Phantom Flame Project", which shows Campanella giving a report to all the Uroboros pillars and the descent of the often referred to 'leader'. Others include information on the salt pillar incident in the Northern Barrier that they developed the weapon Kevin used on Weismann at the end of SC from, all Pater Mater's statistics including all the results from those who attempted to sync with it before her (basically a long list of 'heart attack', 'went insane, had to be silenced' 'no effect' over and over), and of course Renne's backstory itself that she hinted at near the end of SC and they had to edit in the PSP version because of either console restrictions or they didn't want to rate it higher than a 12 She's really a lot more of a sympathetic character after reading it.

Also I got the impression Kevin did something to upset some people at one point but I didn't quite catch what it was. Makes me wish I could understand since it seemed like he was hiding alot of his personality throughout the story behind his laid backness.

The gist of it is that he was using everyone in SC to catch Weismann, even when he came across as their ally and friend. He actually goes up to Joshua and tells him to the effect of 'You know that time Estelle got kidnapped and taken to the Glorius and you were all worried sick? Yeah, I knew that'd happen. I wanted it to happen, because it holed him in and made the whole incident easier to sort out.' or something like that. It's probably a testiment to just how much Joshua has matured by then that he doesn't flip out on hearing this. Ries, on the other hand, is just annoyed with him because he's keeping everything locked in. You pretty much forgive him when you find out what happened to him as a kid though. The music that plays during that bit and Renne's flashback (Staircase to Purgatory) seems to have been nicknamed 'trauma' by Japanese fans, heh.

Sort of confused there, at first I assumed what you meant was Kevin could intercept Weissman's command and pretend like it didn't work. But now it sounds like what you meant is he sort of laid out a trap for Weissman so activating it at that point caused the mark to dissappear? Is that right?

Kinda. I suppose this analogy will do... Imagine it like the stigma being a load of program code. Kevin wasn't able to delete it entirely, but he could add 'If Joshua attempts to kill Estelle, destroy mark' to the bottom. If Weismann had made him kill everyone else instead of her, he would've done it. But the little group who were in on it (Cassius, Kevin, Joshua) suspected he'd make him go straight for her and they bet everything on it.

On a sidenote I rather like Riese.

I liked her sister better. The bit where she finds Kevin on the street refusing to eat and mouth-to-mouth forcefeeds a chocolate to him was completely unexpected.

[Sety]

and of course Renne's backstory itself that she hinted at near the end of SC and they had to edit in the PSP version because of either console restrictions or they didn't want to rate it higher than a 12

I assume from this you mean how she was

Spoiler:

a loli prostitute as a kid?

The music that plays during that bit and Renne's flashback (Staircase to Purgatory) seems to have been nicknamed 'trauma' by Japanese fans, heh.

'Trauma' indeed heh. I do know I was absolutely in love with the 3rd's OST, everything in that OST sounded amazing including that song. Loved 'Fighting Right On', 'Dreamy and Boisterous Holy Land' and 'Castle of Illusions' especially. I'm interested about that though, what was Kevin's backstory reason for being such a asshole? (A likeable one though).

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Sety

I assume from this you mean how she was

Spoiler:

a loli prostitute as a kid?

Yeah, that. If I remember rightly, her parents ran into some... issues in their job or something and were forced to sell her off to this place when she was like... 5. It almost makes Uroboros look like the good guys Leonhardt is really supportive of her, but then again I always liked him.

'Trauma' indeed heh. I do know I was absolutely in love with the 3rd's OST, everything in that OST sounded amazing including that song. Loved 'Fighting Right On', 'Dreamy and Boisterous Holy Land' and 'Castle of Illusions' especially.

Yeah. FC probably had my least favourite soundtrack while 3rd had my favourite, though it's pretty close between SC and 3rd. I think my favourites from 3rd are Staircase to Purgatory (For the ;_, Masquerade of Lies (the awesome Purgatory battle music), Till the Night of Glory and Overdosing Heavenly Bliss, though I listen to the whole SC and 3rd OSTs regularly. Got all 3 games and all 3 soundtracks for 10,000 yen in one of the christmas special offers on Falcom's site, bargain. Actually those're where I got most of my games, own all their PC titles except for Legend of Heroes 3, 4 and 5 now.

I'm interested about that though, what was Kevin's backstory reason for being such a asshole? (A likeable one though).

His childhood broke him inside, basically.

Spoiler for Big spoilers from the near the end of the 3rd, you have been warned.:

Firstly, there was his mother. His father originally supported them from afar but abandoned them for whatever reason, and so it was just him and his mother left. They just about got by initially, but eventually when he was 7 years old there was just no way she could keep it up. Anyway, one night he was awoken to see her there about to try and kill him, telling him that she just couldn't handle it anymore and that there was no way out other for them to 'be put to ease together'. Scared he threw her off and ran outside... and when he came back later he found her dead. Blaming himself for not stopping her even though it was obvious what she would do, he was taken into an orphanage along with Ries and Rufina, and eventually came to follow in Rufina's footsteps as a Grail Knight. A while after succeeding, they were due to meet at the orphanage they had grown up at, but saw some suspicious figures heading there. Kevin went in first, as Rufina hadn't arrived, and they ended up a hidden lower room where he found what they were after - the Demon Spear Roa, that turned its wielder into a monster. By that point Kevin already had the stigma, which drew in the spear's power and caused him to lose control, which was when Rufina arrived, found him, and guessed what had happened. But, thinking it was the only way to calm him down, she just stood there and opened up her arms towards him, and he killed her.

http://www.glep.jp/blog/upfiles/5303/2007/7/55989_1.jpg

He basically developed a punishment complex after that, which is what the Recluse Stone worked with to create the world the 3rd is set in - the demons from the scriptures, Rufina being the Lord of Phantasma, even going so far as to throw him into purgatory itself to be tormented by the souls of those he'd killed as part of his job. He 'killed' his mother, and he killed the closest thing he had to a sister. It was as a result of Rufina's death that he was finally given his current position in the church, which he took while laughing like a maniac. And while he slowly learned to put up the facade he always does, he's never been quite the same since.

Actually just restarted replaying FC now, intending to work my way through all of them again and actually finish 3rd this time. Lost count of how many times I've laughed out loud just in the first few hours.

[Sety]

Originally Posted by Valdra

It almost makes Uroboros look like the good guys Leonhardt is really supportive of her, but then again I always liked him.

Then again Leonhardt is one of the more likeable and reasonable brooding rival archetypes around, at least Joshua finally talked some sense into him. Well until a certain someone had to ruin the reunion at least...

I think my favourites from 3rd are Staircase to Purgatory (For the ;_, Masquerade of Lies (the awesome Purgatory battle music), Till the Night of Glory and Overdosing Heavenly Bliss, though I listen to the whole SC and 3rd OSTs regularly.

Same, in my book any OST which I don't mind listening to entirely from the beginning is an indicator to me that its something entirely special.

Only soundtracks that have ever done that for me would be Ys Origins, Oath in Felghana, Falcom Live 2008, Etrian Odyssey 1&2 Super Arranged, Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 Orchestration, Rockman Zero Telos and Physis and the aforementioned SC + 3rd.

His childhood broke him inside, basically.

Thats pretty sad it seems like nobody gets a break in Sora no Kiseki. Well unless you're Tita but everyone loves Tita, I hope. It at least explains the mark that appears around Kevin all the time.

I do wish someone would pick up

[Varion]

So let's actually say something about Zwei 2! Been playing it for quite a few hours today, even though I only really intended to do so briefly then get back to my SC replay.

Anyway, it's pretty fun so far. The artstyle is nice and colourful, and while its widescreen seems to be stretched it doesn't stretch too badly, so I'm playing my monitor's native 1280x800. They seem to have gone to some effort to try and give everyone in the world some personality too like in Gurumin - there are 2 main towns so far and everyone has loads of lines of dialogue, and at least 3 main pieces of information about them that're recorded in your character chart. Ragna's a pretty likeable guy, with plenty of fighting spirit and not a trace of any kind of angst. Arwen is... well, she's your typical sheltered princess with a little bit of dere. She's not really tsundere though. The food system is back from Zwei 1, which really does encourage you to conserve your food as much as possible - I'm not entirely sold on it yet, but I quite like it - HP is precious because you want to avoid recovering it, and likewise you don't get overlevelled too fast. I was trying to see how long I could last on level 1 but only got to just before the first major boss Oh, and the music is up to standard on the whole. There are a few weak tracks, including unexpectedly the major boss theme. The vast majority at least fit as they should, with quite a few standing out. I really like the mini boss theme (lol the sign outside where the first mini boss is "If you're L1, you'll die in a few seconds. Really!") for example, and the underwater palace area one, and the ones that play when Ragna gets attacked at the beginning (激情に駆られて especially). I'm deliberately trying not to listen to any that haven't played yet though, so I can't comment on anything past the middle of the second set of areas.

So yeah, while it'll hardly sate my urge for Legend of Heroes 7, this game looks like it'll be a worthy addition to the collection and I look forward to playing it more.

[Sety]

I'm still actually waiting to get my hands on it, have to say though I was pretty surprised at the low specs required. Hopefully I'll be able to navigate this game, I was never really sold on Zwei since it played abit too much like a MMO for my liking sometimes and I'm hopihn Zwei 2 will play differently.

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Sety

I'm still actually waiting to get my hands on it, have to say though I was pretty surprised at the low specs required. Hopefully I'll be able to navigate this game, I was never really sold on Zwei since it played abit too much like a MMO for my liking sometimes and I'm hopihn Zwei 2 will play differently.

The specs they offer are definitely the minimums though. I've got a dual core CPU and 2gb of RAM, running on normal settings and 1280x800 resolution, and a couple of bits have given some noticeable slowdown already. There's one part where the whole screen is drenched in an eerie purple mist and the frame rate basically dropped into single digits

Pretty sure I'm maybe 2/3 of the way through now. Can't say how it compares to Zwei because I've barely played it though. I'm enjoying it so far either way. The boss battles remind me of a mix between Gurumin and Felghana - if you stay either below or at the recommended level pretty much all of them will give you a run for your money if you don't use too many food items. Some are just evil.

[Sety]

I'm wondering whether my Laptop would be able to handle it the specs are fine except the graphics card is the weak point. Though if what you say is true it seems I might have to put Zwei 2 to the side till when I get round to setting up a new Desktop which may be a while...

PS:
Ys > LoH :P *flees*

[NakedAngelX]

Super suprised no one is playing this awesome game?
I'm having so much fun here haha, just reached lvl 5 and entered areana. About 3 hours into the game now.

Anyone else?