[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Sauzer

Like falling off a cliff as a baby?

Yes, this can have caused him damages that also hampered his physical growing.

Originally Posted by DokEnkephalin

Developmental differences would explain differences in physique; Lion was raised and fed by an affluent family, and groomed to inherit leadership of it. Attitude also reflects in posture which further contributes to both growth and others' perception of height. Kanon in particular looks like he's holding a meeker, lower profile posture, probably to give off an impression of shorter height and younger age than Shannon.

Treachery of Images is such a prevalent theme in this story that I can't tell if the differences really appear this drastic to anyone within the setting, or if that's just for the sake of distinguishing the characters for the audience.

If we consider how Kanon and Lion are drawn in the manga they both keep their back straight, so it's not like Kanon has a bending posture that could hamper his height. But the problem is between Beato and Lion, as Beato has to look up to look at Lion in the eyes and she's wearing shoes with heels.

Such a huge height difference between the two would be possible only if Yasu's growing up process was stunted by something serious, like lack of food (and I seriously doubt Genji let Yasu suffer starvation) or some hormonal deficit that Lion evidently doesn't have. So the possibility that Yasu's condition is solely due to a chromosomal disorder and Lion also suffers of it becomes rather low.
Something else happened to Yasu that hampered his grown.

Originally Posted by Renall

Kinzo can write a will and leave anything to anybody he wants.

In some countries, mine for example, you must leave a part of your inheritance to your direct heirs (wife and children) and you're free to give to whoever you want only a minor part of what you own.
In the past illegittimate children weren't considered direct heirs, but if I'm not wrong, things now are changed and they have a right to the inheritance... though I'm don't remember if the amount is the same as the legittimate children.
I think as of now it's the same.
I've read in a book the same happened in France in the past, though I don't know how things work in France right now.
We don't reall have titles like 'family head' so I don't really know about that one.
So I've no idea how things work in Japan, if like in Italy or like in America or are something completely different.

Originally Posted by Renall

Genji is a big fat Later Queen Problem staring everybody in the face, and it's probably one of the more Anti-Mystery aspects of the solution as presented. As long as we don't know his heart, his head, it's hard to know if everything we've been presented is even true. All the things Yasu knows about herself, all the things she relies upon, are fundamentally controlled by a gatekeeper who has chosen to present a particular story as the truth, to no apparent gain to himself. Now we can say "well, he really is just that loyal," but we can't know that, especially after Kinzo dies. Hell, we don't even know how many things Genji does are his idea or not. He can and does justify everything as the "Master's wishes," but he's always evasive on which master he's talking about and we never see those orders being conveyed.

Is Yasu the new master, the hidden heir, manipulating matters from behind the scenes? Or is she a dumb kid with a fanciful imagination who has jumped to a series of wild conclusions about her life and played right into somebody else's hands? Who filled in the gaps in all of these disparate facts about a submarine base and a girl living on the island in the 1960s? Who knows everything? Who can confirm everything? Yasu can't, but there's one man who can... but did he? We have no idea, and no way of knowing.

It's hard to accept robot-Genji and the submarine story and the three generations of Beatrice and all of that knowing that it's a tainted informational line that only a tiny number of people actually knew (half of them dead). And Yasu may not be as clever as she thinks she is... or at least Genji might not think she's as clever as she thinks she is. Thought about this way, we suddenly have a very different Yasu Culprit angle that might, perhaps, be more justifiable... or maybe nothing of the sort was going on at all and all of this speculation is nonsense cooked up by Witch Hunters to try to explain a silly game gone wrong.

Personally, the more I think at it the more I like the idea that Genji wasn't completely bent to Kinzo and then Yasu's wills but had an agenda on his own. Maybe he's not behind the murders but I think he's no saint and him having HIS own reasons for... well, Yasu's situation make more sense than Genji wanting to protect her by putting her in that situation.

Originally Posted by DokEnkephalin

Turning the board around on the assumption that the moves made are by Genji's design doesn't reveal any character significance. He may look suspicious at points, but in the broader scope, any influence he may have had did nothing to serve him. His role is parallel to his alter ego Ronove, he has no stake, so he simply observes the dynamic with his dignity.

So, yeah, that's what I know I'm arguing against.

Well, my theory was he tried to use Yasu to control Kinzo's money... as in, if Yasu were to inherit Kinzo's money because Kinzo will present him as his heir and leave a will in which Yasu inherits everything, it's easy for Genji to propose himself as the guy who'll be lIon's right arm and help him to handle the money as the Ushiromiya weren't exactly the nicest people to Yasu while Genji saved his life and Yasu admits he consider him a father figure.

As Kinzo died without a will and never introduced Yasu as his heir however things might have become too troublesome. Basically there would be only Genji's word that Yasu is Kinzo's child or that Yasu solved the epitaph on her own and Genji didn't hand her the solution (which is partially true as Genji gave Yasu a hint).

If he has forged documents the siblings will likely have experts check them and they might discover they're forged.

And even if it's true Genji could blackmail Natsuhi and Rosa into siding with him, he likely has no proofs against them and anyway this wouldn't stop Eva and Rudolf.

Plus things might get even more troublesome as he might have to explain his position in keeping Beatrice on the island and in how Yasu was hidden among the Fukuin children. The siblings can even say he had kidnapped Yasu.

So I'll say Genji's crime might have been only to try to take advantage from Yasu and then he might also have thought to help Yasu believing she wouldn't have killed him, not realizing the full extent of Yasu's plan and not believing Yasu would kill him as well (if Yasu kills all the heirs then Genji can stop her and have her arrested as insane after he had taken for himself the money in the secret back accounts that was using apparently for Yasu's purposes, hell, he might even claim he has enough saving and buy Rokkenjima with the gold in it as it's said he can convert the gold in money).

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Well, my theory was he tried to use Yasu to control Kinzo's money... as in, if Yasu were to inherit Kinzo's money because Kinzo will present him as his heir and leave a will in which Yasu inherits everything, it's easy for Genji to propose himself as the guy who'll be lIon's right arm and help him to handle the money as the Ushiromiya weren't exactly the nicest people to Yasu while Genji saved his life and Yasu admits he consider him a father figure.

The only problem with that is that Genji was never portrayed as greedy or having backhanded motives concerning the inheritance. Rather the other way around, EP2 clearly states that his sole wish from the Golden Witch was "to rest at last".

There is also his portrayal in the EP8 manga where it is revealed that Kinzo tried to get Genji's family out of Taiwan after the country fell under martial law in 1947. Genji's family refused because they did not want to leave their fortune, which they had amassed under the Taiwanese-Japanese government, behind and Kinzo expresses feelings of guilt over not trying harder to get them over to Japan together with his best friend. Genji on the other hand says that it is a debt that he can never repay and the only thing he can do is serve the head of the house of Ushiromiya until he dies.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by haguruma

There is also his portrayal in the EP8 manga where it is revealed that Kinzo tried to get Genji's family out of Taiwan after the country fell under martial law in 1947. Genji's family refused because they did not want to leave their fortune, which they had amassed under the Taiwanese-Japanese government, behind and Kinzo expresses feelings of guilt over not trying harder to get them over to Japan together with his best friend. Genji on the other hand says that it is a debt that he can never repay and the only thing he can do is serve the head of the house of Ushiromiya until he dies.

At the same time, we know he has his own thoughts on matters and has taken some steps of his own initiative. That makes it hard to swallow that he'd just blithely accept a plan to kill Kinzo's entire family, as that seems to run kind of counter to the idea of serving the family head. If he took steps behind Kinzo's back to set Yasu up for their reunion and Yasu's inheritance, why turn around and throw all of that away? Because Yasu says to? Please. Hiding the child's survival (or "survival") from Kinzo runs counter to Kinzo's likely stated interests, but is probably in Kinzo's best interest. So we know for a fact that Genji is capable of acting against his master if he believes he's doing something that's for the master's own good. Given this, and knowing something of him as Ronove, it's hard to imagine he doesn't actually care or that he'd go along with such a thing.

The problem is that we only know some things he has done on his own, and he's very robotically portrayed in actual Forgeries (or the original stories). Now, if there was no plot of that sort to go along with, it's easy to imagine him remaining supportive because everything is entirely harmless. If there is though... I'm just not seeing it. There's something missing. I don't think he necessarily wants money and he has no motive to kill. Indeed, he has every motive to preserve, if he can, especially if Yasu really is the child Kinzo wanted to have everything. So what was going on there if Yasu actually did do it? Was he misled as well? Did he try to talk her out of it and prove too inconvenient? Would he have tried to stop it? Or is the fact that he wouldn't so readily agree to such an act evidence against any sort of nefarious intent on Yasu's part?

[DokEnkephalin]

I still haven't seen anything in Jessica that conclusively denies she knew about Shannon/Kanon and possibly Beatrice. I don't believe she'd mask or fake her emotions, but what she may be reacting to could be something other than the obvious (but she has admitted to simulating asthma attacks as an evasion tactic; it did get rid of Gohda so she could be alone with Kanon, after all.) If she believed Shannon or Kanon were responsible for the killings, she would confront them, but also give them a chance to convince her they're not.

When she's talking about them while they're gone, she looks very uncomfortable, like she knows more than she's saying. She awkwardly hinted that Shannon could've dressed up as Beatrice to deliver the letter to Maria, and Battler or George could've made that speculation offhandedly, but she actually knows Shannon well enough to know whether it's something she would do.

[Renall]

Assuming Jessica isn't totally stupid, she's got to know that all the sightings and pranks are caused by an actual person. There really aren't a whole lot of people likely to fit the bill for that: It's not her, it's not her parents, it's probably not Genji or Gohda or Kumasawa, so it only really narrows down the source to a lesser servant, likely female. If she's been around Maria for any length of time she's probably aware that Maria has an obsession with Beatrice or something, or would start thinking about it as soon as she's made aware of it. Again, there's only so many people Maria could've been talking about interacting with.

I mean simple process of elimination should lead her to at least suspect Shannon or Kanon (assuming she doesn't already know they're the same).

[Valkama]

Assuming Shkanon happens in prime I would say it's pretty likely that she at least suspected it but Yasu just didn't think she did. So when Yasu wrote the stories she wrote Jessica as unknowing.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by haguruma

The only problem with that is that Genji was never portrayed as greedy or having backhanded motives concerning the inheritance. Rather the other way around, EP2 clearly states that his sole wish from the Golden Witch was "to rest at last".

There is also his portrayal in the EP8 manga where it is revealed that Kinzo tried to get Genji's family out of Taiwan after the country fell under martial law in 1947. Genji's family refused because they did not want to leave their fortune, which they had amassed under the Taiwanese-Japanese government, behind and Kinzo expresses feelings of guilt over not trying harder to get them over to Japan together with his best friend. Genji on the other hand says that it is a debt that he can never repay and the only thing he can do is serve the head of the house of Ushiromiya until he dies.

The Genji portray is the hardest to judge. The sentence you quote can mean many things according to different perspectives so while it can be true, his meaning can really be influenced by Genji's perspective.

Let's assume Genji feels obligated to be loyal to Kinzo. This doesn't necessarily mean he likes Kinzo, or that he approves all Kinzo does or that he'll never act against him.

If we believe what's said in the games he disapproved what Kinzo did to Beato and, first chance he got, he hid Kinzo's child, lying to him about the child status.

So even if Genji feels indebted to Kinzo this doesn't mean he'll be blindly loyal to him. Interesting enough in Ep 8 manga version it actually seems he helped Ange to find Kinzo's hiding place.

Anyway, if he were to plan to have Yasu as Kinzo's heir and use her to control Kinzo's money this wouldn't be horribly against Kinzo. Kinzo would be happy Lion is alive and he could redemn himself by leaving everything to Lion.

If Kinzo himself really plans to leave everything to Lion he already shows a definite partiality toward Lion that borders with lack of caring toward his own children and, in a way, Ep 7 implied young Kinzo didn't care much about the children he had with his wife.

So if Genji's obligations are extended only to Kinzo and he feels no affection for the siblings, taking away the money from them might not be something for which Genji would feel guilty.

Genji can also see the fact he would get to control Kinzo's fortune as a sort of retribution from fate. He was rich yet he lost everything and ended up being a servant in his friend's house. He might be not so happy with his situation, can be loyal merely out of honour but secretly resent the situation he ended in and the fact that fate was much kinder with Kinzo. I'm not saying he hates Kinzo, just that he'd like to get revenge against fate. After all the fact he claims he's furniture doesn't really make him look like he's happy with how things are.

But the real problem here is that I think according to Ryukishi we aren't supposed to question Genji's reasons for doing what he did that much. Genji as a character is underdeveloped so any answer is basically fitting. We can even assume he believed his horoscope told him to do this and that, or that, as he's a heavy drinker as Kinzo, he was completely drunk when he did this and that.

When Battler is drunk he sees Beatrice, when Genji is drunk he tells Yasu tales about how he hid her and she had her sex changed due to a fall.

Originally Posted by Renall

At the same time, we know he has his own thoughts on matters and has taken some steps of his own initiative. That makes it hard to swallow that he'd just blithely accept a plan to kill Kinzo's entire family, as that seems to run kind of counter to the idea of serving the family head. If he took steps behind Kinzo's back to set Yasu up for their reunion and Yasu's inheritance, why turn around and throw all of that away? Because Yasu says to? Please. Hiding the child's survival (or "survival") from Kinzo runs counter to Kinzo's likely stated interests, but is probably in Kinzo's best interest. So we know for a fact that Genji is capable of acting against his master if he believes he's doing something that's for the master's own good. Given this, and knowing something of him as Ronove, it's hard to imagine he doesn't actually care or that he'd go along with such a thing.

The problem is that we only know some things he has done on his own, and he's very robotically portrayed in actual Forgeries (or the original stories). Now, if there was no plot of that sort to go along with, it's easy to imagine him remaining supportive because everything is entirely harmless. If there is though... I'm just not seeing it. There's something missing. I don't think he necessarily wants money and he has no motive to kill. Indeed, he has every motive to preserve, if he can, especially if Yasu really is the child Kinzo wanted to have everything. So what was going on there if Yasu actually did do it? Was he misled as well? Did he try to talk her out of it and prove too inconvenient? Would he have tried to stop it? Or is the fact that he wouldn't so readily agree to such an act evidence against any sort of nefarious intent on Yasu's part?

Yes, and even if he believed Yasu wasn't serious... well, in Our Confession Yasu says she's going to blackmail Krauss and Natsuhi with a bomb. Genji should know the consequences of it. Not only blackmailing is a serious crime but it can push Krauss and Natsuhi into doing something desperate.
And if he's so set in protecting Yasu would he really not realize what she's doing is downright dangerous? Waving a gun at someone, what if a bullet ended up being shot by mistake? What if Krauss, who's apparently pretty strong, were to attempt something in fear she'll harm Natsuhi?
And the same goes for everyone else.
I could let it slide if there was no blackmailing involved, if everyone think they're playing a prank, but once you scare people by making them believe you're putting their lives on the line... well, the game isn't funny and it's rather dangerous.

And did he really not realize that... let's say Kumasawa and Nanjo were dead in Ep 2? Was he really willing to let her kill everyone?
I stand my case, Genji's heart is a mystery.

[GuestSpeaker]

I wouldn't say Jessica has to suspect that Beatrice is Shannon. Remember, before the incident she wasn't that much of an exciting story. Because a little girl who visits a few times a year says she met Beatrice or the servants blame her for losing their keys isn't probably enough of a reason for Jessica to launch an internal investigation over who the culprit could be. That would be easy to brush off and not think about, we only give it scrutiny because of the murders.

The only event that I could foresee forcing her to ask the question of who Beatrice is is the incident in the VIP room, and I am guessing Jessica just forced that from her mind because it was creepy. That would fit with my internal characterisation of Jessica, where I believe she deliberately never wondered why didn't see Kinzo anymore (so she didn't exactly know he was dead, because she created a catbox of never looking into it)

[Sauzer]

BTW while on topic of Jessica what was that doll prank she was talking about in ep7? Was it really as she said - at least 3 servants pulling a prank on her with Yasu hiding under the bed?

And on that note how did Yasu manage to steal Berune's master key without anyone noticing and lock it up in her locker? Did Yasu put his/her own master key in her locker in advance? But how did noone notice how he stole it?

[Renall]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Yes, and even if he believed Yasu wasn't serious... well, in Our Confession Yasu says she's going to blackmail Krauss and Natsuhi with a bomb. Genji should know the consequences of it. Not only blackmailing is a serious crime but it can push Krauss and Natsuhi into doing something desperate.
And if he's so set in protecting Yasu would he really not realize what she's doing is downright dangerous? Waving a gun at someone, what if a bullet ended up being shot by mistake? What if Krauss, who's apparently pretty strong, were to attempt something in fear she'll harm Natsuhi?

Nevermind all that, Genji knows everything about the bomb and where it is. He can disable it if he really worries someone is going off the deep end, and moreover, he has the ability to check on it to make sure it's not serious by going to the room and examining the mechanism. Hell, if he wants he can probably break the mechanism. Just set the switch to off and snap the handle off or something, or cover it with a piece of wood you hammered into the clock, there's gotta be a way.

Granted that wouldn't much help if the activation only happened after a tragedy set in, which seems plausible as a cover-up or "we have to stop the killer at all costs" issue. Or if it was just an accident. In those instances Genji wouldn't know or wouldn't suspect anything (or wouldn't be alive), but to simply be misled like that seems unlikely given that he knows all the stakes and would have the ability to pretty much double-check anything he needs to.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Renall

Assuming Jessica isn't totally stupid, she's got to know that all the sightings and pranks are caused by an actual person. There really aren't a whole lot of people likely to fit the bill for that: It's not her, it's not her parents, it's probably not Genji or Gohda or Kumasawa, so it only really narrows down the source to a lesser servant, likely female. If she's been around Maria for any length of time she's probably aware that Maria has an obsession with Beatrice or something, or would start thinking about it as soon as she's made aware of it. Again, there's only so many people Maria could've been talking about interacting with.

I mean simple process of elimination should lead her to at least suspect Shannon or Kanon (assuming she doesn't already know they're the same).

I think the problem with Jessica isn't that she doesn't know but that she doesn't want to know.

likely 3 servants had fun at her expenses pranking her----> let's not think too much at it because it would be unpleasant

Kinzo is never around and it's likely her parents are covering his death for their own gain---> let's not think too much at it because it would be unpleasant

Maria claims someone is playing with her as Beatrice and she's being creepy----> let's not think too much at it because it would be unpleasant

Ep 1 they've reached a bad end and it's likely a human culprit killed them----> let's not think too much at it because it would be unpleasant

Interesting enough Jessica is the only one who at the end of Ep 1, after saying the culprit had to be Beatrice in the beginning, changed her mind and begged Battler to discover the truth.

I think that was a hint of how Jessica, like Battler, believed the culprit to be human, but didn't want to think too much at it because it would be unpleasant... and she decided to do so only when things will get serious, same as in the games when she jumps at Maria or when she says she'll sacrifice herself if she'll had to choose because the other options would be painful but then jumped at Ronove, or when she decided to let fate decide who she should kill and had really hard time working up the determination for doing it.

Originally Posted by Sauzer

BTW while on topic of Jessica what was that doll prank she was talking about in ep7? Was it really as she said - at least 3 servants pulling a prank on her with Yasu hiding under the bed?

And on that note how did Yasu manage to steal Berune's master key without anyone noticing and lock it up in her locker? Did Yasu put his/her own master key in her locker in advance? But how did noone notice how he stole it?

Yes, likely that's the solution of the prank. And Maria's voice was likely recordered.
As for Berune she didn't put Berune's key in the locket. She put in it her own, then switched her keyring with Berune's. As a result she made no sound removing the key because... she didn't remove it right then.
The keyrings could be switched without making any noise if you were to grab the keys and not the ring.
As both look exactly the same Berune likely didn't realize the switching.

Originally Posted by Renall

Nevermind all that, Genji knows everything about the bomb and where it is. He can disable it if he really worries someone is going off the deep end, and moreover, he has the ability to check on it to make sure it's not serious by going to the room and examining the mechanism. Hell, if he wants he can probably break the mechanism. Just set the switch to off and snap the handle off or something, or cover it with a piece of wood you hammered into the clock, there's gotta be a way.

Granted that wouldn't much help if the activation only happened after a tragedy set in, which seems plausible as a cover-up or "we have to stop the killer at all costs" issue. Or if it was just an accident. In those instances Genji wouldn't know or wouldn't suspect anything (or wouldn't be alive), but to simply be misled like that seems unlikely given that he knows all the stakes and would have the ability to pretty much double-check anything he needs to.

Well, even if the bomb was activated he could move everyone in Kuwadorian. When Yasu was found dead in Ep 2 he could have warned Rosa and Battler they needed to leave that place instead than just sit and mumble.

I also think Genji likely saw his share of corpses and such during war so it should be easier for him to recognize a corpse from a person faking to be one... though Ryukishi might have not considered this or decided that Genji didn't learn to recognize them.

Originally Posted by DokEnkephalin

I still haven't seen anything in Jessica that conclusively denies she knew about Shannon/Kanon and possibly Beatrice. I don't believe she'd mask or fake her emotions, but what she may be reacting to could be something other than the obvious (but she has admitted to simulating asthma attacks as an evasion tactic; it did get rid of Gohda so she could be alone with Kanon, after all.) If she believed Shannon or Kanon were responsible for the killings, she would confront them, but also give them a chance to convince her they're not.

When she's talking about them while they're gone, she looks very uncomfortable, like she knows more than she's saying. She awkwardly hinted that Shannon could've dressed up as Beatrice to deliver the letter to Maria, and Battler or George could've made that speculation offhandedly, but she actually knows Shannon well enough to know whether it's something she would do.

As I said it's more likely that Jessica had suspicions but didn't want to face them. Shannon is her best friend. Kanon is her crush. Her parents are telling her Kanon is another boy they hired. Genji, Kumasawa and Shannon are confirming this. All of the above are telling her Kinzo is alive.

It's really unpleasant to say the least to think all those people lied her so she prefers to turn her gaze away from the likely truth.

[DokEnkephalin]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

As I said it's more likely that Jessica had suspicions but didn't want to face them. Shannon is her best friend. Kanon is her crush. Her parents are telling her Kanon is another boy they hired. Genji, Kumasawa and Shannon are confirming this. All of the above are telling her Kinzo is alive.

It's really unpleasant to say the least to think all those people lied her so she prefers to turn her gaze away from the likely truth.

To Krauss and Natsuhi, Shannon is one of the replaceable roster of servants, beneath their notice since it's Genji's job attend to such details. But Jessica has been friends with her for a long time; she still went by the name 'Yasu' when her mother first encouraged Jessica to become acquainted (but not too friendly) with her. If Jessica really didn't notice the change in name, appearance and personality, then is it just coincidence that the only two girls that age remained friends?

It can't be just a dismissible suspicion for Jessica; she may not be the top achiever, but it's not plausible that she's that unobservant. If she didn't immediately identify Kanon, and was incapable of catching his resemblance to someone she's kept company with for years, eventually she'd realize that the two servants on the island she likes to spent time with most are never together.

[Kealym]

I wouldn't say it's a coincidence that Shannon and Jessica stayed friends but ... Jessica was friends with all the Fukuin servants, and Shannon is just the only one who never found another job / thing-to-do.

I also still never got the impression that Jessica and Shannon spent all THAT much time together, despite being friends. Shannon works, Jessica goes to school and tries to involve herself in extracurriculars, and their friendship is actually largely unaddessed after Turn, really. If there are two people you never see together, wouldn't the first thought just be "I guess they work differing schedules" rather than "smells like a mystery better look for clues"?

On the other subject, it's too bad about Genji. I was expecting EP8 to tidy up his whole characterization much more thoroughly. All I can assume is that he really is "just that loyal" to Kinzo and his "will". Like ... ... ... maybe he legit doesn't give two shits about Kinzo's kids, and just bothers with Yasu because she was the one Kinzo clearly got all up in his feels about.

[Renall]

Yet Battler's game shows that Kinzo actually does care about his own kids, so how do we know that Kinzo (and by extension, Genji) didn't as well? Hell, how do we know Genji didn't feel some sympathy for Kinzo's real kids and even knowing that Kinzo wanted Yasu to have everything, hoped that Yasu would show some compassion for the adults? I find it hard to believe he'd think it's totally cool to just dump the four of them and their families, especially since George/Jessica/Battler/Maria/Ange have done nothing wrong and certainly don't deserve to lose everything.

Hell, Yasu likes all of those kids (except maybe Ange). Why would she want something bad to befall them? Given her reaction to getting the gold and headship, maybe her just wanting to give it all away is precisely something Genji could get behind. If the two of them decided to set up a mystery game to both make Battler remember and reward everybody by splitting up the gold to solve their problems, it'd certainly tidy up everything that everybody wants. I don't see why anyone would feel compelled to kill over it... at least why Yasu wouldn't. She gets basically everything she wants out of the way except her love triangle issue and maybe the game can resolve that too.

[DokEnkephalin]

Kinzo's obsession was in part due to guilt for the same reason that Genji felt it was wiser to disguise Lion as a servant and keep her distant; molesting and impregnating Beatrice II. Also can't forget that Beatrice I was the love of his life, unlike his arranged wife and the mother of the rest of his children, so they were neglected over his grief and the desperate hope he could be forgiven.

If Yasu did nothing else, she did set the bomb, or presented it as an option, or misled as to which side of the switch was active. She was in two doomed romances and still hung up on a third, so she pretty much cast her fate to chance in a way that risked everything and everyone. But I don't see how she could be considered some grand puppetmaster over these personalities with their own conflicting volition when there's no evidence she took any action at all over the 4 episodes; the only time she appeared to surface is when questioning Battler from the rooftop.

[Kealym]

You are disregarding the literally (literally) dozens of instances of murder.

Also, her romance, at least with George, wasn't doomed at all, if she had decided to pursue it. I don't remember the specific interview, but Ryu said at some point that if Shannon had admitted certain things to George, he would've kept calm and carried on.

Originally Posted by Renall

Yet Battler's game shows that Kinzo actually does care about his own kids, so how do we know that Kinzo (and by extension, Genji) didn't as well? Hell, how do we know Genji didn't feel some sympathy for Kinzo's real kids and even knowing that Kinzo wanted Yasu to have everything, hoped that Yasu would show some compassion for the adults? I find it hard to believe he'd think it's totally cool to just dump the four of them and their families, especially since George/Jessica/Battler/Maria/Ange have done nothing wrong and certainly don't deserve to lose everything.

Hell, Yasu likes all of those kids (except maybe Ange). Why would she want something bad to befall them? Given her reaction to getting the gold and headship, maybe her just wanting to give it all away is precisely something Genji could get behind. If the two of them decided to set up a mystery game to both make Battler remember and reward everybody by splitting up the gold to solve their problems, it'd certainly tidy up everything that everybody wants. I don't see why anyone would feel compelled to kill over it... at least why Yasu wouldn't. She gets basically everything she wants out of the way except her love triangle issue and maybe the game can resolve that too.

Well, I'm always on the fence about how much stick to put in Battler's narrative. He presents a lot of very reasonable ideas that are almost certainly true, but he is in general also kinda ... anti ... Truth, in that EP. Maybe Genji is sympathetic to Kinzo's kids because he did, after all, effectively raise them (especially in regards to Rudolf and Rosa). Maybe he doesn't care at all, since he never really does anything for them, in particular, or express much sentimentality outside of his duty. He's too devoid of characterization to really say.

On the gameboards, at least, Yasu is pretty much offing people she likes (she seems to legit like most of the people, actually) left and right anyway, so, who knows, "that cursed witch's roulette", and stuff.

Come to think of it, the gameboards are awfully knowledgable about the adults financial situations. This is especially strange since the adults had to do out-of-their-way research to find out about Krauss's nonsense. Is she having Genji call up Kinzo's old business pals to investigate her secret-siblings loan investments, or...

[DokEnkephalin]

Originally Posted by Kealym

You are disregarding the literally (literally) dozens of instances of murder.

I really don't need to rehash my reasoning when all that's important to that paragraph is that Yasu is responsible for the bomb, no more or less.

Originally Posted by Kealym

Also, her romance, at least with George, wasn't doomed at all, if she had decided to pursue it. I don't remember the specific interview, but Ryu said at some point that if Shannon had admitted certain things to George, he would've kept calm and carried on.

That sounds not at all as fatalistic as Yasu/Shannon/Beatrice saw the situation, and with or without Word of God it doesn't look reassuring from any angle.

[MysteriousLurkerGuy]

Re: Prime, between the escape boat and the "survivor benefits", I think Yasu's plan was either murderous in and of itself, or s/he knew it would break bad. Even if Ryu thinks that George (or Battler, or Jessica) could have accepted Yasu with no problems, *Yasu* doesn't think that. Hence, catbox.

As far as Genji, I wonder if Lion's furniture complex and Kinzo's subsequent death just straight up broke the dude. He's participated in some pretty horrible things over the years regarding the Beatrices, takes a chance to try to make it somewhat right, and watches it go so horribly wrong instead.

[DokEnkephalin]

Even if George's expressed wish for a yardful of children wasn't sincere so much as he thought it was the mature and romantic thing to say, it does place a burden of expectation on Shannon.

[Kealym]

Oh, I'm not denying that Yasu herself has a pretty fatalistic stance about the odds of her relationships working, it's a major source of duress for her, and that duress is/was very real.

Just, we have it on good word that George would've accepted her anyway. I'm not saying Jessica wouldn't, but George is the one whose already far enough in his relationship that he's shaping major life decisions around it. Of course, Yasu has no way of knowing that, which makes the whole situation a bit sadder, in it's way.

I assume they probably would've just adopted or something.