True Tears - Episode 13 [END] Discussion / Poll

[cherrysh]

I like the ending. At first I really want Hiromi to end up with Jun but then what he said to her was really mean. "Kore pochi mo" ahaha Oh well...Man...

But what touched me the most was when Noe saw the stones Shin used to confess to her then she cried. I love her tears. I think she matured through the process.

I hope Noe and Jun will have their own happy ending, (OVA hopefully =P)

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Weisheit

any thoughts about why hiromi said "no" to Shin when he 1st proposed?

i'm still very confused about that responses, no idea at ALL

Sort of tied to what I said earlier about this scene, I think it's because of his approach. In terms of a "confession", it was extremely on the blunt side. She's got her pride, and although she loves him, she doesn't want to be seen as desperate/easy either. Normally, one might have possibly started with some context, you know, perhaps said that he loved her... After all this time, I'm sure she wouldn't have minded the proposal to be a bit more, um... romantic... It's sort of tied with what she said after he said that they'd be together forever, which was more or less (summary) "how can you say that, when I haven't even said yes?" Basically, I think she was hoping to be wooed a bit, but he was taking advantage of the fact that he already knew how she felt anyway, and that her saying yes was a foregone conclusion. So it was more banter than anything else. At least, that's the way I saw it, for what it's worth.

[mikesince83]

I'm surprised to see so many low ratings making the thread.

I'd give this series high marks simply for keeping me guessing right up to the end. More often then not, it's clear right from the beginning who the male lead will end up with, which takes a lot of the suspense out of things.

I liked Hiromi, so this worked out well, but I would have been satisfied if he chose Noe. She certainly served a special role in his life, and I'm sure it was difficult for him to let go. As an afterthought, I almost wish she didn't end up crying. Titling the show True Tears and including a girl that can't cry has the viewer waiting from episode one for her to cry, so how much more significant is it if she never does?

As far as Aiko goes, she was one of my initial favorites, but there was really no hope for her from the outset. It was nice she managed to work a little action in on the side to shake up the scene.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by mikesince83

I'd give this series high marks simply for keeping me guessing right up to the end. More often then not, it's clear right from the beginning who the male lead will end up with, which takes a lot of the suspense out of things.

Agreed on this, True Tears is the first slice-of-life anime I've seen where I was practically kept guessing till the last episode.
Unlike in...*cough...other similar series out there.

[BookOfMages]

I didn't like the ending that much, in the end Noe got the short end of the stick.

However I knew that Shin'ichiro would end up with Hiromi [Mostly since almost all aka 95% of my favorite characters/lovers keep getting the short end of the stick...]

Well you know from episode one it was obvious, and maybe its just me, but I had a feeling if Shin chose Noe, that Hiromi might have pulled a Nice Boat on True Tears, despite the fact she said she would've accepted it and that's really something I would've hate since I actually like Hiromi. Another thing that might have happened to Hiromi if Shin chose Noe was that she might end up like his mother.

When you think about it, first love never really works out, and out of the two, I think Isurugi Noe really was like 100% better at getting over it then Hiromi, at least now Noe has a chance to get together with someone who actually deserves her, but still I was thinking of Noe's happiness, I would've been so happy for her, but you know she would've noticed Hiromi's sadness and she'd get sad, which would've made me like so much more upset, so I guess all an all Shinichiro getting together with Hiromi was for the best.

Ganbatte Noe-chan, YOU GO FIND YOURSELF A HAPPY FUTURE! ;____; <33333 [With me. ]

[DragoonKain3]

Guardian Enzo's comment about Shin's feelings towards Noe being sort of brotherly affection struck a chord for me, as it did seem a more logical interpretation of the scenes beforehand. Everything would fit into place

Thing is though, the translation I saw used the word 'waver', which heavily implies that it involves something romantic. Relentless uses the translation 'ache', which fits the bill quite nicely as then it doesn't necessarily mean its romantic. But going for a third opinion (Omni's blog), they use the work 'quake', which leans more towards the former rather than the latter. So even if this is the interpretation that makes most sense for me, I don't know how much of it is rooted in canon facts.


As for the other set of interpretations, from what I have said before what the animators should've done, I knew what they were trying to say (preaching to the choir here guys ;p). That despite Noe still has a small piece of his heart, Shin still chose Hiromi in the end.

Telling the girl in question that you'll stay with her forever, however, does not imply at all at the above, well at least where I come from. While not exactly a 'proposal' (I only used that term since it's much shorter), those words to me still basically says 'I'll stay with you forever because you're the only girl for me', and not 'I'll stay with you forever even when I still have feelings for another girl', with the italicized parts being the implied words.

Even here in north america, you don't spew such cheesy lines unless you have only that girl in your eyes (to my knowledge, I haven't EVER heard it used as the latter implication). How much more so for Japan, where I hear that even from a very young age one is taught to not really express emotion in words? (I even have heard of long time married couples being able to count the number of times they said 'I love you' in one hand, but I digress )

So yeah, wrong choice of words from the animators part (I'm ruling out a translation error as I trust the group). Just like in these forums, sometimes what you have wrote down isn't exactly what you meant to say, and I felt that's exactly what happened. The animators was most probably trying to imply that Shin was going to always stick to Hiromi no matter what happens, even when his heart 'wavers', but the methods on how they delivered that was ambigous at best, contradictory at the worst.

And for such an important scene (if not THE most important scene of the entire series), that's really inexcusable IMO.

Originally Posted by mikesince 83

I'd give this series high marks simply for keeping me guessing right up to the end. More often then not, it's clear right from the beginning who the male lead will end up with, which takes a lot of the suspense out of things.

Oh, I give the highest marks for TT for making us guessing right till the end. That however, is completely different from the reason why I would give this episode a low rating, where I thought they really screwed up the final scene. That is, as an overall series I rate TT highly, but episode 13 I would rate dismally.

[Theowne]

I believe it is more likely that Shin's"waver/ache/quake" is romantic rather than brotherly simply because the following scene where he sings loudly to convince himself that Hiromi is in his heart and let Noe leave would make very little sense if he had no romantic feelings for her.

[vio5555]

There seems to still be confusion on why Shin's mom was dismissive of Hiromi early on but changed later.

So I'm going to just lay out again what I think happened there. (going to not use pronouns as much because it gets confusing...)

Originally Shin's mom thought that Hiromi represented Hiromi's mom based on the fact that Hiromi looks exactly like her mom according to Shin's mom. This means that her hate for Hiromi is based on the fact that Shin's father didn't really do things very properly in breaking off his relationship with Hiromi's mother before returning to Shin's mom. Consequently, Shin's mom takes out her old grudges against Hiromi's mom on Hiromi...

Later on, after the self-destructive incidents and whatnot with Jun, Shin's mom realizes that Hiromi actually represents her role in the drama (maybe because Shin's mom probably did some similar things) and not Hiromi's mom as she originally thought. This in my mind is the explanation of the 180-degree turn in her treatment towards Hiromi. Shin's mom goes from associating Hiromi with her mom to associating Hiromi with herself.

I have to think that this is the most logical explanation to me and it does fit all of Shin's mother's statements early on to the effect of "You (Hiromi) look like your mother" in terms of beauty in a cold way. Later on after she's had the epiphany that Hiromi's self-destructive behavior is more reminiscient of her own actions in the past, she switches to supporting Hiromi because she now sees herself through Hiromi. This is supported by her last statement to Hiromi as she waits for Shin which is about how hard the waiting is since Shin's mom probably experienced this in the past (but Shin's dad may have screwed up... by his reaction to Shin's question in 13 and from Shin's mom disliking Hiromi early on indicating an unclean break).

Either way, the best thing about this whole subplot is that all of the hints are there in True Tears. Shin's mom comments early on about Hiromi looking like her mother and combined with the turnaround after the incidents along with the final episode dialogue; that part of the plot all falls into place.

[AznSoulBoy]

Well, I have nothing to say anymore. I would like to see a OVA or a extra episode. I want to see HiromixShin when they spend time together and having fun. Until now, it seems like awkward each time they talk together and being together. Of course, I would like to see what will happen to Noe and Jun.

Anyway, it is the best show this winter imo. It's been a long time that i havent watched such a good anime. The animation was nice, the music was superb, and the story was very good.
I have fun to guess what will happen and discuss with u guys. Really, I was really excited.

Hopefully, it will have more romance shows like that

[Skane]

Originally Posted by mikesince83

I'm surprised to see so many low ratings making the thread. ~

A full 76.63% of the voters gave this episode an 8 or above. 85.8% if you want to include the 7-voters. If anything... it is only a vocal minority that is disparaging about this episode.

Cheers.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by BookOfMages

Well you know from episode one it was obvious, and maybe its just me, but I had a feeling if Shin chose Noe, that Hiromi might have pulled a Nice Boat on True Tears, despite the fact she said she would've accepted it and that's really something I would've hate since I actually like Hiromi. Another thing that might have happened to Hiromi if Shin chose Noe was that she might end up like his mother.

When you think about it, first love never really works out, and out of the two, I think Isurugi Noe really was like 100% better at getting over it then Hiromi, at least now Noe has a chance to get together with someone who actually deserves her, but still I was thinking of Noe's happiness, I would've been so happy for her, but you know she would've noticed Hiromi's sadness and she'd get sad, which would've made me like so much more upset, so I guess all an all Shinichiro getting together with Hiromi was for the best.

Ganbatte Noe-chan, YOU GO FIND YOURSELF A HAPPY FUTURE! ;____; <33333 [With me. ]

Well, I think Hiromi won't pull a nice boat on Shin if he chooses Noe...
On exactly 9:15 of episode 13, Hiromi said that she is "a sportsman" meaning she would accept whatever decision Shin makes. First love worked here btw. And I agree with your last sentence, I hope Noe finds the person who will care for her and make her happy.




Almost nothing left to say, but I would like to take this chance to mention that it's beautiful when the animation changes into something like from Shin's picture book whenever there's a strong/dramatic moment. Gives a unique feel to the scene.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Episode 10 should have been the ending! In comparison, Episode 13 lacked the "natural high" that Episode 10 provided. Coming immediately after the surprising turn of events in Episode 12, the concluding episode of True Tears felt somewhat anti-climatic.

All said and done, True Tears has been a nice ride, even though it didn't provoke the strong emotions I had after watching KGNE. But that is possibly because I'm older now. Guardian Enzo, Theowne and others have covered most of the points I would have discussed, so there is no need for me to go over the same ground.

However, I am curious about the comments about the supposed lack of "romance" or "relationship" between Shin and Hiromi. By that, I am not saying that others are wrong for feeling that way. I am saying though that the depth of Shin's and Hiromi's relationship felt very apparent to me. So, I wonder if cultural misunderstandings are in play?

Originally Posted by Luapman

Mostly I think the outcome of True Tears is indicative of how Japanese culture views romantic relationships. It is a rare occasion when a main male character of a romance makes the risky but potentially more fulfilling choice of who to be with. I thought this series was going to but I was disappointed. It seems KgNE will remain my top romance anime still.

I chuckled out loud at the above opinion. It's a superb example of cultural prejudice, plain and simple. But it does highlight my main point - perhaps foreign audiences are missing the cues because of cultural differences in the way they view romance?

For the record, childhood friendships very seldom turn into real relationships in my part of the world. No, I'm not in Japan, but I am fairly certain that I can't think of a single personal example of childhood friends who became couples. Even if infatuations did exist, most people grew out of it eventually. Familiarity breeds contempt, so they say. It's hard to become romantically involved with someone you already know them inside-out. Because being in love means being blind to your significant other's faults.

That said, it's incredibly romantic to fantasise about finding the "love-of-your-life" while you're still a child. It's even more sappily romantic to imagine how such relationships could last through adolescence and into adulthood. To me, that is the point of seeing such relationships in romance dramas. The very idea of childhood love is, in itself, very romantic. After all, we're watching fiction, and as such, what transpires on screen doesn't have to be realistic.

So, while it's true to a certain extent that we didn't get much insight on Shin's and Hiromi's developing relationship, I would suggest that, by default, they had feelings for each other that didn't need much elaboration. The audience (well, most of the audience) would automatically "know" what to expect between Shin and Hiromi. It was "obvious" that they had feelings for each other. They only needed to confess those feelings openly.

Finally, regarding Noe. She was, quite simply, Shin's muse. A good friend and an inspiration that he grew to love. If Hiromi wasn't already in the picture, Shin and Noe would probably make a great couple. However, as Guardian Enzo wrote, I think it's clear that Noe is meant all along to be the catalyst who drives Shin towards his actual goals in life and in the process, she grows up as well.

I disagree that Noe was "strong" at the beginning of the show. Repressing your sadness is not real strength - it's running away. By opening herself to others for the first time, Noe realised that she did not understand people as well as she thought she did. She got hurt in the process, but that, to me, is a necessary price to pay. As such, I like the way the writers concluded her story in this episode.

But I still feel that Episode 10 would have been a better ending.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by BookOfMages

When you think about it, first love never really works out, and out of the two, I think Isurugi Noe really was like 100% better at getting over it then Hiromi, at least now Noe has a chance to get together with someone who actually deserves her, but still I was thinking of Noe's happiness, I would've been so happy for her, but you know she would've noticed Hiromi's sadness and she'd get sad, which would've made me like so much more upset, so I guess all an all Shinichiro getting together with Hiromi was for the best.

Ganbatte Noe-chan, YOU GO FIND YOURSELF A HAPPY FUTURE! ;____; <33333 [With me. ]

I think Noe is absolutely in a 100% better position to get over it than Hiromi. For her, Shin'ichiro is a winter crush, albeit her very first real love. For Hiromi (and Shin) it's a lifelong connection that runs deeper than anything else in her life. In the end they sort of both got what they needed - Hiromi got her knight in shining (mugiha) armor, and Noe got her tears back by finally allowing herself to emotionally connect to another person. Painful for her, no doubt, but life and love usually are.

I think a few words should be said for just how beautifully animated the series and especially the final ep were. Obviously the character designs and facial expressions were superb, but the judicious use of stillness (as during the closing credits) as well as the gorgeous oil-on-canvas stills used a few times in 13 were also perfect. Even such small details as the tiny figures moving by in the distance as Noe stared at the "graveyard" during the closing credits were handled with great expertise.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Episode 10 should have been the ending! In comparison, Episode 13 lacked the "natural high" that Episode 10 provided. Coming immediately after the surprising turn of events in Episode 12, the concluding episode of True Tears felt somewhat anti-climatic.

All said and done, True Tears has been a nice ride, even though it didn't provoke the strong emotions I had after watching KGNE. But that is possibly because I'm older now. Guardian Enzo, Theowne and others have covered most of the points I would have discussed, so there is no need for me to go over the same ground.

However, I am curious about the comments about the supposed lack of "romance" or "relationship" between Shin and Hiromi. By that, I am not saying that others are wrong for feeling that way. I am saying though that the depth of Shin's and Hiromi's relationship felt very apparent to me. So, I wonder if cultural misunderstandings are in play?



I chuckled out loud at the above opinion. It's a superb example of cultural prejudice, plain and simple. But it does highlight my main point - perhaps foreign audiences are missing the cues because of cultural differences in the way they view romance?

For the record, childhood friendships very seldom turn into real relationships in my part of the world. No, I'm not in Japan, but I am fairly certain that I can't think of a single personal example of childhood friends who became couples. Even if infatuations did exist, most people grew out of it eventually. Familiarity breeds contempt, so they say. It's hard to become romantically involved with someone you already know them inside-out. Because being in love means being blind to your significant other's faults.

That said, it's incredibly romantic to fantasise about finding the "love-of-your-life" while you're still a child. It's even more sappily romantic to imagine how such relationships could last through adolescence and into adulthood. To me, that is the point of seeing such relationships in romance dramas. The very idea of childhood love is, in itself, very romantic. After all, we're watching fiction, and as such, what transpires on screen doesn't have to be realistic.

So, while it's true to a certain extent that we didn't get much insight on Shin's and Hiromi's developing relationship, I would suggest that, by default, they had feelings for each other that didn't need much elaboration. The audience (well, most of the audience) would automatically "know" what to expect between Shin and Hiromi. It was "obvious" that they had feelings for each other. They only needed to confess those feelings openly.

Finally, regarding Noe. She was, quite simply, Shin's muse. A good friend and an inspiration that he grew to love. If Hiromi wasn't already in the picture, Shin and Noe would probably make a great couple. However, as Guardian Enzo wrote, I think it's clear that Noe is meant all along to be the catalyst who drives Shin towards his actual goals in life and in the process, she grows up as well.

I disagree that Noe was "strong" at the beginning of the show. Repressing your sadness is not real strength - it's running away. By opening herself to others for the first time, Noe realised that she did not understand people as well as she thought she did. She got hurt in the process, but that, to me, is a necessary price to pay. As such, I like the way the writers concluded her story in this episode.

But I still feel that Episode 10 would have been a better ending.

A superbly written post, thanks for sharing it. I agree with almost all of it, except for the part about 10 being the better ending. While that one Shin x Hiromi scene in 10 was probably the most emotionally charged in the series, 13 to me was much-needed - a wistful settling of affairs, and a bittersweet look at the emotions that were in play during the series.

[germanturkey]

so watching the properly translated version gives me much more insight into the emotions going on and reinforces my theory that Hiromi loved Shin much more than she showed. plus i could finally see the parallel that happened between past and present.

i was right about Hiromi loving Shin enough to let him choose and be happy with the decision he makes, even if it isn't her.

and i finally understand that Shin's father was put in the same situation where he had to choose between Hiromi's mother and Shin's mom. Hence the waiting is hard part. finally understanding what happens makes it that much better in my book.

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

It was good while it lasted. This episode basically wraps everything up. I feel sorry for Noe because she is the only one who is not happy oh well in a love show at least one person will get hurt.

[Master Chibi]

Wow, what a retarded way to end this show.

They spent so much effort on developing Noe, and this is what we end up with? I mean to hell with cheering for a girl I want because Shin is an idiot to begin with.

How am I supposed to accept that Shin actually cares about Hiromi AT ALL when the only real emotion's he's ever shown in the series was towards Noe? He's shown an entire cascade of emotions to the girl, but when he's around Hiromi it's all monotone script reading over dramatic nonsense.

It doesn't even make any sense, the direction of this show is so skewed and several parts of the show horribly forced too.

Ugh, just ugh.

[w00tness]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

so watching the properly translated version gives me much more insight into the emotions going on and reinforces my theory that Hiromi loved Shin much more than she showed. plus i could finally see the parallel that happened between past and present.

i was right about Hiromi loving Shin enough to let him choose and be happy with the decision he makes, even if it isn't her.

and i finally understand that Shin's father was put in the same situation where he had to choose between Hiromi's mother and Shin's mom. Hence the waiting is hard part. finally understanding what happens makes it that much better in my book.

The waiting is the hard part for the women. Im slightly disgusted that the impression I got from Shin was that he's saying "hey, im suffering too, I cant choose, and when I finally make my choice, its a choice thats breaking my heart!" because realistically, he cant lose. He is the prize for the winner, and no matter how you look at it, the girl he rejects suffers more than he. To be fair, I cant say what I would do in his place, because ive never been in a situation akin to his, but STILL, it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.

As for Shins dad, we know for sure his heart wavered, but we do not know when, nor the circumstances. If his heart wavered after his marriage (which I believe to be the case), then chances are his feelings were not returned (or even not known by Hiromi's mom). If that were the case, then you cant really say Shin and Shins dad's situations are similar.

cents.

[Reckoner]

First may I just say, wow. They ended it better than I ever thought they could. I've always liked Noe better than Hiromi, but I wasn't necessarily determining the show's rating based on my own personal desires. Unfortunately I was fooled by the writers into thinking that Noe was going to win (I bet my left arm ), but at least I got the fact that he did have romantic feelings for Noe correct.

Although they tried to give some closure to the parent's relationship, I still found the mother's actions inconsistent with what we were presented with earlier on in this series. She changed way too quickly! Only real large flaw that I was able to deduce from the series, but I'll let it slide.

Random episode comments...

The most touching scene in this series was absolutely, positively Shinchiro's monologue.

I've grown to like Jun a lot.

Noe made me sad this episode.

I punched Hiromi on my screen.

So... I gave this episode a 9/10 because of Hiromi's split.. No, but I just was bugged by some unknown factor while watching the series.

I'll save my giant walls of text for the other thread. Peace.

[poptart]

as i am so late to the game and not a regular commenter i just wanted to add that i also was a fan of noe. hiromi seemed to be lacking in any redeeming qualities, other than her looks, to make me want to see her "get the guy". i found her boring and the "safe" and expected way to go.

all in all, even though my favortie didnt win out in the end the characters were fully developed and realistic. they had flaws and were not above showing their worst in front of others. i dont usually like the drama romance genre for how it makes most women out to be emotional basketcases. but i think they handled it in such a believable way that i was able to look past it.

so i give it a 9/10. so much better than that train wreck that was kimikiss.