Aquarion EVOL - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Vena

At this point, I see only two logical resolutions. Like I said, it could all be tragic or dramatic irony: Amata rejects fate (as far as he was aware then, his biggest obstacle) and opts to fight it which proves to ultimately be counter productive, Zessica rejects fate (as far as she was aware then, her only chance) which proves to ultimately be what she'd need but is crushed by fate's revelation.

But gets Amata in 12000 years anyway. If it was good enough for the dog, why not for her?

[Destined_Fate]

Because Apollo already got what he wanted, the love of his Master's lover. Now 12,000 years later after that fate is rolling up again only this time fate isn't just ignored, like Apollo didn't really care, but the entire theme is fighting fate. Thus to fight fate they cannot be together without the writers admitting that yes, they messed up and even the dog revelation or splitting Amata up doesn't change that them getting together is accepting fate/destiny and that the writers wasted 26 episodes on a theme that they never planned to realize thus wasteing everyones time.

There's no guarentee that she'll even get Amata(Though al things considered he isn't really a the best of the bunch with how he's been acting) in 12,000 years. She didn't even get to make her own promise and after Amata's stupid fighting fate arguement by accepting fate as well as the revelation that she's an intruder(when before she thought Kagura was Mikono's fated lover and she had a chance with Amata and not them being the same guy) all puts a huge damper on everything.

Especially since in the first episode Mikono made her own statement of the 12,000 years thing. So not only did Zessica not get to make her own promise but Mikono had alraedy trolled Amata into another horrible 12,000 reincarnation cycle where even more **** will go down that will do its best to try and be worse than this one.

Watch it be the rabbit that decides it wants to be Celiane's reincarnated lover and the entire time we'll be lead to believe that he's actually the reincarnated Amata who will instead just not show up at all than 7 years later we'll be told that it was all a lie and that only Celiane was ever serious about keeping reincarnation promises and loves all animals.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Because Apollo already got what he wanted, the love of his Master's lover.

That wasn't enough. They were cut short, you know.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by Thess

That wasn't enough. They were cut short, you know.

It's more than enough because he got what he asked for. He never asked for more so he didn't get more. I'm sure if Apollo saw what happens 12,000 years later in EVOL he would have quickly recanted on that promise. Or if he found it he lived a lie and wasn't the reincarnated Apollonius but the jealous dog that hyjacked his masters promise for himself.

[Maximillionus]

Well even though the dog bomb dropped this episode I'm slightly optimistic about things becoming full circle again. And what I mean by that is somehow the Ending will involve Amata and Mikono, making things revolve back around like how the series started with Amata and Mikono, whether that means they stop Mykage and save the world or they veer off and stop the reincarnation bullshit. I'm just really hoping I didn't waste 26 episodes x 24 minutes of my time watching a series that will end stupidly. I could explain a number of scenarios but i think the stupidest would be comfirming both amata and kagura are both the dog and both having mikono in the end after they save the world from toumas revenge on something 12,000 years ago.

I still don't understand how using Kagura will help Mykage get his revenge and taking control of Zessicas body so he can use it to be the 3rd pilot in the Legendary Aquarion.

[Qilin]

Setting aside the possibility that this latest plot twist might be retcon, I think it's much more important to consider what this new development does for the series as a whole. So let's ask ourselves: Does this new twist add depth and meaning to the story? And more importantly, how does it relate to the story's overarching theme?

For the first question, it could be argued that this new twist robbed the main romance of any depth and meaning. What started out as a beautiful romance between an angel and a human spanning several millenia turned into a dog's attempt to deceive everyone around it to steal its master's partner. But then again, if you ignore that this development basically turns its own prequel into a joke, it isn't inherently bad by itself. All we can do is wait and see what Kawamori does with it, though I'm pretty sure it'll just lead to an even bigger troll.

As for the second question... Let me put it this way: If you thought that this series was about true love being more powerful than fate, then this little twist basically takes a huge dump on that naive notion. In other words, this new knowledge pretty much trivializes most of Amata's wangsting over Mikono and Kagura. In return however, this episode brings up a few themes of its own, that love transcends all boundaries, be it time (Mugen Punch upgrade), fate (?), gender (Andy x MI-XY), race (Silvia x Pollon), or commonsense (nearly everything in this damned series).

...And that's what it would look like if I actually decided to take this series seriously, which I don't.

[kuromitsu]

Well, consider the show's ideas of "true love."
Kagura: obsession
Zessica: seriously unhealthy
Amata: cockblocked by the universe (and his own other half) until it's too late
Mikono: ?

So...

[Zuul]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, consider the show's ideas of "true love."
Kagura: obsession
Zessica: seriously unhealthy
Amata: cockblocked by the universe (and his own other half) until it's too late
Mikono: ?

So...

Amata's isn't unhealthy ?!!

I can tell you it is.
And until recently not much was on his way (until you considere Shushu an obstacle that could rival mount Everest), Mikono was on a silver platter. His going nowhere with her is his entire fault.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Zuul

Amata's isn't unhealthy ?!!

I can tell you it is.
And until recently not much was on his way (until you considere Shushu an obstacle that could rival mount Everest), Mikono was on a silver platter. His going nowhere with her is his entire fault.

He got obstructed quite a few times at the beginning, first because the dorms were seperated by a wall and after the destruction of the the wall Amata's love was interupted by the "no love" rule by Fudo. During this "no love" test, Mikono ended being abducted by Kagura and then Mikono ended developing feelings for him. So in the end i agree with kuromitsu that Amata got cockblocked by the universe.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Going over the Aquarion cosplay episode I see it in a new light.

Fudo was teaching the lesson of being yourself not anybody else. Unfortunately that didn't stick 12,000 years later thanks to Mykage splitting Amata.

Oh Fudo cosplayed as Rena. He and Rena were very related after all as both are likely parts of Apollonius.

[Korps!]

Originally Posted by Zuul

Amata's isn't unhealthy ?!!.

Amata has his fair share of mental issues, not as many as Kagura but considering they both come from the same mold and given that Kagura was raised by Mykage it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

[Triple_R]

25% 1 votes... I think that's the highest I've seen for "1s" for an anime episode on Anime Suki since Haruhi 2009.

Maybe that says something about this plot being a bit too repetitive...

[Qilin]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well, consider the show's ideas of "true love."
Kagura: obsession
Zessica: seriously unhealthy
Amata: cockblocked by the universe (and his own other half) until it's too late
Mikono: ?

So...

True love is unbound by rules, logic, and social boundaries!

True love comes in many different shapes and sizes!

True love is in the eye of the beholder!

...or something along those lines.

[Arya]

Really, I couldn't catch up with this thread so I skimmed a lot. Anyways, essentially this episode didn't change a thing of the previous settings. I mean, the fact that Amata and Kagura are Apollo, a dog, godzilla or goofy doesn't change the dynamics they have with Mykono. If they are destined or not, I mean. They are both or not. Zessica is following her apparent path steadily. So the shenanigans were meant only to messing the previous series
Even if I don't care of Genesis the fact that Apollo is a dog looks very, ehm, dumb. And doesn't explain Celiane/Apollonius Genesis dynamic. If I remember correctly Celiane recognized Apollonius in Apollo and Sylvia felt in love with Apollo just because he was Apollonius' reincarnation. So, basically they are saying that Sylvia felt in love with Apollo because he was Apollo (or Pollon) and not being forced by the fate. Oh, it looks less dumb now.
Even if for Genesis' fans it looks like a blasphemy I like this kind of explanation. (I like it as in-Aquarion-universe explanation, obviously ). One of the things I didn't like of genesis was the feeling that the love was forced by fate and not genuine.
Basically the same concept they are (or not, who knows) portraying in EVOL. A genuine love (Amata <-> Mikono) Vs a fated one (Kagura -> Mikono). I keep sticking with the fated/not fated love because whatever the reincarnation settings will be that doesn't change the fact that Amata felt for Mikono in a normal way (love at first glance) and Kagura being forced by Mykage.

I may be repetitive here, but I read about the belly move Zessica/Mykage did in the episode, maybe has it something to do with the raping gattai dream? I don't know how or why yet, and I hope not but really it was a strange movement to do.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Zuul

Amata's isn't unhealthy ?!!

I can tell you it is.
And until recently not much was on his way (until you considere Shushu an obstacle that could rival mount Everest), Mikono was on a silver platter. His going nowhere with her is his entire fault.

I know there's another Aquarion Evol out there in which Amata is a horrible, creepy jerkass, but in the version I've seen his love is not unhealthy, no? Unless being a teenager awkwardly in love is unhealthy, in which case wow, how many of us here is healthy? (Also, you're right, it's totally his fault that whenever things started to go well for him Kagura/Shushu/Fudou ruined the mood, or that Mikono was awkward and timid on her own right, or that the writers never let him and Mikono sit down and have a conversation that matters...)

Originally Posted by Arya

I may be repetitive here, but I read about the belly move Zessica/Mykage did in the episode, maybe has it something to do with the raping gattai dream? I don't know how or why yet, and I hope not but really it was a strange movement to do.

I think it was just Mykage being happy about finally having an actual body, and a nice one at that? Seeing that apparently he's a ghost. Or something. (Which doesn't exactly explain why he bled when demonwolf!Kagura bit him but let's not think too deeply about that.)

Btw come to think of it, how, according to Okada&Kawamori, did Touma even realize that Apollo wasn't Apollonius? I mean, he spent the entire show believing that he was. Did they have a random talk where Apollo (who didn't even know or care about his previous life) spilled the beans before they perished or what? Also lol, this is seriously missing Sirius gloating in the background. "HA HA HA YOU WEREN'T APOLLONIUS AFTER ALL, HA HA HA~!"

[Destined_Fate]

Umm.. Yes this episode did change a lot of things. You should read the past posts before making such a bold statement as that when it was already explained multiple times the implicatations and how far reaching this revelation has been.

And you got it wrong. Sylvia started falling in love with Apollo before the Apollonius thing. It was just the Apollonius thing that appeared later that made her believe they were truely destined for each other and both thought that Apollo was Apollonius and not some jealous dog. If anyone should be angry about this it should have been Celiane and Apoolonius and not Touma. So yes, it looks way dumber than what Genesis had going for it.

Also how was it not geniune? Did you even watch Genesis? They fell in love before they thought they had the reincarnation stuff sorted out. That rencarnation stuff was just the iceing on the cake, at least it was until they turned Apollo into the jealous dog that hyjacked his Master's promise and lead Silvia astray.

We already discuessed that. Mykage wanted to be a woman before when he was Touma and wanted to make babies with Apollonius(Since clearly it was because Celiane had breasts and could have babies as to why Apollonius fell for her over staying with him, right?). Since Mykage promised that he would fulfill Zessica promise in exchange for her body it's easy to guess that he plans to pretty much try and rape Amata with her body and say promise fulfilled. She gets Amata physically and he gets a baby through her. Why he wants a baby isn't clear cut yet, it's understandable why he wants one with Apollonius(Who is where exactly?) but he hates Amata and Kagura. It may be because he understands Zessica, in a twisted way, and is willing to soil that mortal body to get her what he believes she wants aganst her's and Amata's will.

Would be epic trolling on his part to steal away Amata's virginity and have Mikono be useless, like she's been this entire time, and forced to watch.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

And you got it wrong. Sylvia started falling in love with Apollo before the Apollonius thing.

Heh~ The OVA epilogue indicated Silvia was instinctively pulled to Apollo due to what happened in the other universe.

Double reincarnations. There is the spirits of theirs 12,000 years before and the spirits of themselves in the other universe.

Thus the reason for all Reika's self perceived bad luck was that she was punishing herself for what her alternate self did in the other universe.

What Apollonius did, yes he is responsible as keeps possessing Apollo inside he Aquarion, was misdirect everybody even Touma where he was.

Hence as Rena said in the OVA quoting the Book of Genesis "The False Wings will appear and the True Wings are hidden, thus the True Wings will be betrayed."

We already got the Wings of Glory (OVA part 2 title) in Amata but we don't see Wings of Betrayal yet. (OVA part 1 title)

Deava pilots thought Sirius was Apollonius since the prophesy said he'll be born from the Alicia family. Then Apollo appeared... but it was double subverted.

Maybe it wasn't Apollonius descendants but the family of an Alisia... We have an Alisia in Amata's mother. Her only family is Amata and Kagura.

Thus we have the probable reason why Mykage needs Kagura, Mikono and Zessica... He wants to give birth to Apollonius in a new incarnation using them. Taking his soul within Aquarion. Basically he is self fulfilling his interpretation of the prophesy.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

We already got the Wings of Glory (OVA part 2 title) in Amata but we don't see Wings of Betrayal yet. (OVA part 1 title)

FWIW the original title of Wings of Glory was simply "Sousei no Aquarion - Taiyou no tsubasa," Wings of the Sun. Wings of Glory was the title of the English release.

[Destined_Fate]

Yet Kagura isn't the real deal, he needs Amata as well. Mikono could just be there so to put them back together and fuse other stuff together. He doesn't need Mikono for anything other her connection ablities and the only reason Mikono was even there was because Kagura took her of his own free will. Mykage has shown that he could care less about Mikono, though considering she's the reincarnation of Celiane you would think he would have trolled her even just a little bit, and even refused to help Kagura when he first got his hands on her.

Though it does suit him to want a baby in that case, by forceing Apollonius to get back into the Reincarnation Cycle against his will than get him all for himself. Still strange he hates Apollo for tricking him but is okay with Amata/Amagura and a mere mortal, Zessica, to be the parents of his reincarnated lover if that's the reason he wants a baby through Zessica off that promise that he would get her Amata.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Umm.. Yes this episode did change a lot of things. You should read the past posts before making such a bold statement as that when it was already explained multiple times the implicatations and how far reaching this revelation has been.

And you got it wrong. Sylvia started falling in love with Apollo before the Apollonius thing. It was just the Apollonius thing that appeared later that made her believe they were truely destined for each other and both thought that Apollo was Apollonius and not some jealous dog. If anyone should be angry about this it should have been Celiane and Apoolonius and not Touma. So yes, it looks way dumber than what Genesis had going for it.

Also how was it not geniune? Did you even watch Genesis? They fell in love before they thought they had the reincarnation stuff sorted out. That rencarnation stuff was just the iceing on the cake, at least it was until they turned Apollo into the jealous dog that hyjacked his Master's promise and lead Silvia astray.

To me this episode didn't change anything. I add the fact that it is from episode 3 that I keep reading someone expecting great changing in the plot in the next future and we are at episode 23 and are still stuck on Amata/Mikono.

Don't take me too seriously about Genesis, I watched the first series when it was aired so I probably/surely have forgotten many things. But It was clear from episode one that they would have fallen in love eventually, so when they discovered about reincarnations doesn't count. Anyways I remember the feeling of all that destiny thing like being forced. Probably Apollo's annoying dog behavior didn't help to make look credible Silvia's falling for him, clearly from my point of view.
And absurdly the writers looks like having my same thoughts about that stuffs, so far at least.