2010-07-13, 19:26 | Link #13802 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
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2010-07-13, 19:37 | Link #13805 |
Philosopher of theories
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Portugal
Age: 32
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Hey everyone =) I just finished reading Episode 6 and haven't read too much of the forums, however somethings have just sparked up in my mind. One of the things I wanted to get out here was to ask if there's any site or post with a comprehensive list of theories so far. In threads as long as these, it's very hard to keep up, specially when you don't know if your own theories have already been stated by someone else or not.
For starters, I'd like to know if anyone has proposed the theory that Erika doesn't really exist in (human)'reality' and her scenes are just like an 'illusion, or the inside of a braun tube' which leads to a certain result like many other 'supernatural events' that have occured in the game. |
2010-07-13, 19:40 | Link #13806 | |
fire of fires
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
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Erika not existing at all in the human reality probably doesn't make sense due to the red involving her- however, the theory that you're looking for is the Erika Ball theory, where Erika basically represents another character we've known is real. |
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2010-07-13, 19:42 | Link #13807 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Because the name will still refer to you anyway. Even if Kinzo were to say "I'm not Ushiromiya Kinzo anymore!" everyone else, and all his legal documents, would still call him Kinzo, and Kinzo would still exist.
On the other hand, renouncing an alias means you can also renounce that which the alias entails. |
2010-07-13, 19:54 | Link #13808 | |
Philosopher of theories
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Portugal
Age: 32
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Well, my theory wasn't exactly like that one. I don't think Erika represents anyone else and that red truth pertaining her are exclusive to the game board where she is playing. In other words, there's the real events of the island, and then there's the gameboard version of it, where Erika appears. they closely resemble each other but they are not the same as Erika does not find her way to Rokkenjima. supporting this is the endgame red truth, which is seemingly contradictory "I am Furudo Erika, the 18th human" "even if you joined us, there's 17 people" and the executed Erika's TIP. |
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2010-07-13, 20:07 | Link #13809 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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To be clear, at least on this forum, the "erika ball theory" suggests that anyone can be Erika as the "ball" can pass to any of the people in Rokkenjima and whoever has the "ball" is Erika. So Erika can use whatever piece is available for her to use.
"Ghosterika theory" usually simply refers to the fact that Erika doesn't exist but she has her own piece in the gameboard. While it's not necessary that Erika had the same piece both in EP5 and EP6 she still need to have a piece and only one during the game. Exilon. I do believe that the gameboard is fictional and in the real world Erika never arrived on Rokkenjima. But that doesn't solve the problem. Either the red texts work on the real world (and I really can't see ho they do), or they work for the fictional version. If they work for the fictional version you need to explain what the hell is happening in the fictional version. Since red truths are the truth then it's clear that the fictional version must have a consistent story if red truths can work for it. So basically in this fictional version the calculations do not match. There are 17 people including Erika and there are supposedly 18 people including Erika. So who in the fictional version doesn't exist? Is it erika? or is it that shannon and kanon are the same person? This is the dilemma that EP6 makes us face.
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2010-07-13, 20:13 | Link #13810 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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A legal name does not have to be part of a social identity and I know quite a few people for whom it is not, and there are places which base the concept of legal name on the concept of social identity. "Real name" is a fiction, none is actually more real than any other.
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2010-07-13, 20:20 | Link #13811 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Well we're kinda off the point here, anyway. I'd say that there's no evidence to suggest that Kinzo is anything other than dead, and that anyone other than Shannon and Kanon use aliases of any sort, but...
Kanon doesn't need to die... he only needs to stop existing. If his personality/ alias switches, it works fine. |
2010-07-13, 20:24 | Link #13812 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I still think the proper way to look for the solution is to find a way for Kanon to never have existed in that guest room.
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2010-07-13, 20:29 | Link #13813 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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After all the red saying that no one else can use Kanon's name, you'd be hard-pressed to make a theory where two Kanons exist. Plus, even if two of them exist, presumably they would both be "Kanons", so you couldn't use the red text that "Kanon wasn't in the room" anyways.
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2010-07-13, 20:29 | Link #13814 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Lord Goldsmith... well, how can Kinzo be alive? Natsuhi would've had to kill this "Goldsmith" and throw him out the window, just like Eva said... or we can take Battler's stupid blue text, which is denied by the Jungfrau anyway.
Jessie is such a minor plot point I can't even remember it. I suppose you could have a go, but Kanon definately entered the room, and he definately didn't leave it. He also definately saved Battler by doing up the chain lock. Also, the "Noone can use Kanon's name but Kanon himself!" is ridiculously circular, heh. |
2010-07-13, 20:32 | Link #13815 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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I understand your resistance to the "Kinzo is still alive through red text trickery" problem, because it is silly and stupid. It's also a natural consequence of allowing names to die without clear rules as to how people can be accounted as dead in red. The game does not actually give us any such rule.
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2010-07-13, 20:36 | Link #13816 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I have a friend who thinks that the Gold uses a magic perspective to explain it's claim. He says the reason it works for I guarantee that this corpse is Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse...!! is that the red was sealed by saying it wouldn't be affective but the gold truth was never sealed so it can claim the same thing a red truth would with a magic perspective.
And under the human or magic perspective it is impossible for Kinzo to be anything other than a corpse. after all we have George saying it himself in episode 3. If a body is dead for 3 days or if you cremate the body it's impossible to revive the dead. Because the Japanese use cremation magic like that doesn't work in the east. Kinzo was dead long before that So by red and gold standards there is no possible way for Kinzo to be the culprit since he's a corpse and due to the reasons above he can't be revived with magic either.
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2010-07-13, 20:45 | Link #13817 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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wow, i read a bit about this shkannon but some things are strange.
Why create the Kanon Persona in the first place? to erase her emotions so she could work better? sounds lame. Is there a chance that her age is 19? what i found about her says 16. The story isn't really observed from any point of view but rather told in Anges timeline, with the knowlage of the Bottles and only the results count the rest is irrelevant. Why? because we see, not often but from time to time, Shannon and Kanon in the same place with other people, which ofc shouldn't be possible. Also .....someone help me here Spoiler for in the end of ep6 it states:
Spoiler for while in ep3:
shouldn't 1 statement be wrong? or is he gona pull a Kinzo again in EP7 and change every previous statement. |
2010-07-13, 20:54 | Link #13819 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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It doesn't say the word people. It just uses the counter for people. Since furniture isn't a standard word, it would probably be legitimate to use that counter to count them. I've spoken with a few native Japanese speakers, and they seemed to think it a legitimate use of the language.
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2010-07-13, 21:02 | Link #13820 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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