Code Geass R2 - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Witacume

not really he has the freya on the mordred just in case they decide to betray him.
Thus he liek either talk to me or we will all die XD

Not really. He could have sent any mook to do THAT. Instead he went into the lions den himself. The Prime Minister of Britannia, the second prince. That takes guts whether you have a super weapon or not, it can establish some trust.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by sLum

Because he has balls. The balls the size of a planet. He comes to the enemy as a diplomat, that shows some trust.

Id say he does have ballz but prefers to use his brain instead which has enabled him to get as far as he has, one stones throw away from the Throne of Britannia. Going to the OoBK was not only a sign of Strength but in some ways it was a slap in the face to the Knights they are just too stupid to realize it, he is basically saying "I came because i can and there is nothing you can do about it". He did not get this far by being soft and i wish some people would wake up and realize this. He has Morded equipped with Freya just in case.... BUT its also a show of force lets be real here. Whenever a country does those so called war games its to show off their military power and Schneizel is doing the same thing just on a smaller scale. The OoBK are a means to end to rid himself of a pest namely Lelouch none of his other siblings have the ballz to take him on. Given Japan back in the eyes of the world might be seen as a sign of weakness and WEAK he is not. Mark my words in the end the OoBK will lose in one way or another WHY because they lack vision the person who gave them that was Lelouch no one on that ship is capable of thinking that far ahead.

[Captain Falcon]

I have a feeling that Jeremiah is gonna have a big show soon.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Except everyone in the organization pretty much trusts Ougi. That was the reason Deithard kept him around.

Deithard was doing his best to defend zero, it's nothing short of a plot hole that he did not point out that Ohgi's judgement was being blinded by his love for a Britanian that for all he REALLY knew was just using him as a tool against BK(hell she once shot him; how's that for a way to say "i love you too")... Todou as well, even if he trusts Ohgi would question his so-called "evidence" considering the source; he would have been quick to say "while i have serious doubts about zero now, this story of magic powers sounds like a load of bull"... they may trust Ohgi but that does not mean they think he is incapable of being honestly wrong... which is actually a little true; her original reason for meeting with Ohgi in the forest was not out of love but to use him against zero (though her priorities have been changing when it comes to him)

You are right. But that is what lelouch gets for NOT TALKING TO HIS TROOPS. He wanted to be a secretive and manipulative jerk, well, it came back to haunt him. He didn't trust his troops enough, and this is the result.

Again, saying Lelouche is a manipulative, evil mastermind is ONE thing, but we are talking about proving he has unbelievable magic powers. No amount of mistrust or doubts would allow them to believe something so unbelievable. Hell the idea that Zero is just plain capable of creating his own miracles through genius and luck is easier to believe than the geass

Also, Lelouch pretty much confirmed Geass when they held him at gun point. And that was when they got really pissed. because they still seemed to hold a little hope. So I guess it all is rendered moot.

They accept him having the geass as a foregone FACT and were ready to hang zero much before he himself confirmed it; even if he remained silent or tried to deny it they probably would have still shot him... so zero confirming it does not excuse the horrendous writing of turning the BK against Zero

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Deithard was doing his best to defend zero, it's nothing short of a plot hole that he did not point out that Ohgi's judgement was being blinded by his love for a Britanian that for all he REALLY knew was just using him as a tool against BK(hell she once shot him; how's that for a way to say "i love you too")... Todou as well, even if he trusts Ohgi would question his so-called "evidence" considering the source; he would have been quick to say "while i have serious doubts about zero now, this story of magic powers sounds like a load of bull"... which is actually a little true; her original reason for meeting with Ohgi in the forest was not out of love but to use him against zero (though her priorities have been changing when it comes to him)

I just have to disagree here then. I can't say any more than I already have. it didn't help that Deithard did NOT deny Geass (he even seemed to know about it too. He kept Lelouch's little excursion to the Cult a secret after all and seemed to imply he knew something.) He even said "Geass would be good for us." It was when Schneizel through out the evidence did things change.

They accept him having the geass as a foregone FACT and were ready to hang zero much before he himself confirmed it; even if he remained silent or tried to deny it they probably would have still shot him... so zero confirming it does not excuse the horrendous writing of turning the BK against Zero

Bad writing? I don't know about YOU, but I thought it was done really well and it WORKS. Not my fault you didn't like it.

[Witacume]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Not really. He could have sent any mook to do THAT. Instead he went into the lions den himself. The Prime Minister of Britannia, the second prince. That takes guts whether you have a super weapon or not, it can establish some trust.

oh yeah Schneizel is badass no matter how you cut it XD

[Diedrupo]

I think people are forgetting that the BK didn't turn on Zero until Schneizel revealed that Zero knew about fleia but didn't inform the BK about it, meaning that he was willing to let them all die for his silly capture Nunally mission. Prior to this revelation, they didn't care much about the geass stuff (well except for Ougi who had a personal issue with it).

[EternalMelody]

Schneizel actually explained that Lelouch's Geass works just like a powerful form of hypnosis. Hypnosis is not that hard to believe.

[Sinestra]

Well im still hoping that Ougi's personal reasons for doing pretty much everything he has done in R2 will be reveled. Bitching and moaning about secrets makes you hypocrite when you have one yourself. Im not saying the Knights would turn against him if they knew. All i want is for him to live up to the righteous BS he has been spouting and own up to his shit. If he is so righteous then why hide it?



WHOOT this was my 4000th post

[Cat Megex]

Originally Posted by chinaman91

No he isnt gonna get a geass upgrade, the geass only grants the user one ability. To have an upgrade would be a contradiction of that statement. It is already powerful as it is and the series is near its end, why would you 'dream on' about him becoming even more powerful when the ending is coming!?

Geass upgrade = going from one-eye always-on Geass to two-eyes always-on Geass.

(A little late, but whatever. I had classes.)

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Orga777

I just have to disagree here then. I can't say any more than I already have. it didn't help that Deithard did NOT deny Geass (he even seemed to know about it too. He kept Lelouch's little excursion to the Cult a secret after all and seemed to imply he knew something.) He even said "Geass would be good for us." It was when Schneizel through out the evidence did things change.

Their is nothing to confirm Diethard knew about the Geass; Zero did not trust him with the knowledge about Cornelia and would not at all trust him with the secret of the Geass... Diethard kept the cult attack a secret because he understands attacking an enemy facility but at the same time knew that others would not agree with him. Diethard is a classic politician; he knows playing dirty and keeping secrets is a good way to get ahead, and knows that a negative must either be denied or turned into a positive.

Deithard did not deny the geass AFTER Ohgi confirmed it... like todou, tamaki and everyone else he instantly believed Ohgi and did not even consider question his source of information, which is purely idiotic on his part given Ohgi's source of information... the reason he did not deny it and tried to turn it into a positive is because he had already accepted that the truth of the geass was confrimed despite the evidence that came from an unreliable source; since he could no longer deny it, he had to try and turn it into a positive... however, him not being able to deny it is what is terrible writing as it would have been EASY to deny...

Bad writing? I don't know about YOU, but I thought it was done really well and it WORKS. Not my fault you didn't like it.

Well if you call "good writing" as believing the a sworn enemy who has been trying to destroy zero for the past year along with his organization and would only benefit from zero being labeled a traitor when they present an unbelievable story about magic powers, use very easy to fabricate evidence, and that the most reliable source (Ohgi) based his conclusions on a HIGHLY unreliable source that he is in love with(Villetta, a loyal Britanian baroness who has many reasons to support the Britania's story and LIE about zero; she even has a personal grudge against him for blackmailing her)... then well, i guess that's you... some of us think characters shouldn't become suddenly stupid and easily deceive and thinks that intellegent characters like Todou and Diethard should be thinking logically and not believe something so unbelieavble

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Deithard did not deny the geass AFTER Ohgi confirmed it... like todou, tamaki and everyone else he instantly believed Ohgi and did not even consider question his source of information, which is purely idiotic on his part given Ohgi's source of information... the reason he did not deny it and tried to turn it into a positive is because he had already accepted that the truth of the geass was confrimed despite the evidence that came from an unreliable source; since he could no longer deny it, he had to try and turn it into a positive... however, him not being able to deny it is what is terrible writing as it would have been EASY to deny...

Check again buddy. He said "even if he has Geass, it is a good weapon against Britannia." And that was BEFORE Ougi walked in.

Well if you call "good writing" as believing the a sworn enemy who has been trying to destroy zero for the past year along with his organization and would only benefit from zero being labeled a traitor when they present an unbelievable story about magic powers, use very easy to fabricate evidence, and that the most reliable source (Ohgi) based his conclusions on a HIGHLY unreliable source that he is in love with(Villetta, a loyal Britanian baroness who has many reasons to support the Britania's story and LIE about zero; she even has a personal grudge against him for blackmailing her)... then well, i guess that's you... some of us think characters shouldn't become suddenly stupid and easily deceive and thinks that intellegent characters like Todou and Diethard should be thinking logically and not believe something so unbelieavble

Except you are just WRONG as hell. It was many things. Not being told about FLEIJA, left over feelings from the Black Rebellion, their own doubts about trusting Zero, Asahina's testimony, and then Schneizel's evidence. It wasn't like they bought everything Schneizel said at first. It took him prodding their fragile faith in Zero to fully take over the advantage. It worked really well, it made sense, and it drove the plot forward. To me, you just sound pissy that Lelouch got what was coming to him.

[Endrance]

I think the thing the BK were mad most about is that being they dont know lelouch can only use the geass on someone once they believed that he had used it on them as well which is what Schneizel was trying to get them to believe. That would piss anyone off to find out someone else has been controlling their actions for their own benefit

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Check again buddy. He said "even if he has Geass, it is a good weapon against Britannia." And that was BEFORE Ougi walked in.

i think you need to check again... Schnieziel first explains Geass as the explaination for Zero's miracles; Diethard does not replay; Tamaki demands proof, and then Ohgi shows up saying "there is proof" and AFTER that Diethard says the geass is a good weapon, in which Schniezels counters with, "if it's only used agianst enemies" and then presents easily to fabricate "evidence" and articles that are probably partly innaccurate

Except you are just WRONG as hell. It was many things. Not being told about FLEIJA, left over feelings from the Black Rebellion, their own doubts about trusting Zero, Asahina's testimony, and then Schneizel's evidence. It wasn't like they bought everything Schneizel said at first. It took him prodding their fragile faith in Zero to fully take over the advantage. It worked really well, it made sense, and it drove the plot forward. To me, you just sound pissy that Lelouch got what was coming to him.

and AGAIN i must repeat, it is one thing to say Zero is a lying, manipulative evil bastard, it is ANOTHER thing to say he has magical powers...

Zero abandoning them in the black rebellion, their doubts, Asashina's testimony... all of things said Zero may not be what he seems, that he may be lying, keeping secrets and being manipulative... but it does NOT support the idea that he has magical powers... the only thing that supports it is the testimony and evidence being provided by the ENEMY, who has every reason to lie... even the questions they brought up about jeremiah and so forth could have been explained through more logical reasons other than magical powers

[Sports72Xtrm]

Hey what did Shniezel mean by asking Gino what the other definition of authority is?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

ENEMY, who has every reason to lie... even the questions they brought up about jeremiah and so forth could have been explained through more logical reasons other than magical powers

If you can logically explain the actions for all the suspected victims please do so.

Schenzeil's investigations was quite accurate except for Toudo's general (But probably because he committed suicide (Though Zero had a hand in that)).

In the end, it was timing. The timing was more or less perfect for Schenzeil and he was betting on Zero not giving full trust to his subordinates which is why it came back to bite him. Schenzeil could've leaked the information prior to the battle occuring but he didn't.

Argue all you want but it doesn't change the fact that everything was in Schenzeil's favour. Like he said, he held all the cards and he played it brillantly when Zero was at his weakest. He gambled his life on it and the die rolled in his favor.

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Hey what did Shniezel mean by asking Gino what the other definition of authority is?

My bet on Fear of Impending Doom!

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Is Anya getting controlled by Marianne or Anya is Marriane? That's what I don't get.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by SkoolRumble4Ya

Is Anya getting controlled by Marianne or Anya is Marriane? That's what I don't get.

Marianne's memories are imbeded in Anya. Basically when those memories come out Anya assumes the personality of Lelouch's mom Anya is still there just asleep in away. Right now she has complete comtrol of Anya's body and can impersonate her pretty well too.

[amjzz]

Another great episode...

Now that left just 5 episodes things are going to get more interesting...