[Manga]Uchiha chakra...cursed?

[Mangekyo]

In chpt.309 the kyubi states that the Uchiha bloodline is cursed, he also states that the chakra is more cursed than it's own. I myself believe that the Uchiha bloodline came from a demon (NOT LIKE THE BIJU'S).Does anyone have any speculations as to why it's cursed?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Mangekyo

In chpt.309 the kyubi states that the Uchiha bloodline is cursed, he also states that the chakra is more cursed than it's own. I myself believe that the Uchiha bloodline came from a demon (NOT LIKE THE BIJU'S).Does anyone have any speculations as to why it's cursed?

It probably has something to do with the Uchiha clan's "true purpose" that was mentioned by Itachi. It might be that Uchiha bloodline came from a demon (maybe the Kyuubi himself). Of course, Kakashi also stated that the Sharingan was originally derived from the Byakugan implying that the Uchiha clan branched off from the Hyuuga clan.

[Mangekyo]

Maybe a mix of hyuga with demon perhaps?

[Juruzu]

maybe the 8 tailed demon?

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Uchiha clan branched off from the Hyuuga clan.

Right, I was thinking you know the seal that the Hyuuga family uses which apparently keeps the branch family in "check" and seals the secrets of the Byakugan. . . when they die.

What if it never existed in the first place? I'm not just talking about the seal, but the whole branch family main family garbage. What if it was measures that was taken due to an incident say like... kidnapping of a Byakugan user, finding out its secret's mixing it with some demon chakra and creating the Sharingan from it, or you could scratch the mixing part and just say that the reason this seal was born is because of that incident where the Sharingan was developed using the Byakugan. It could also be.. a Byakugan user man/woman mated o_O with someone who had some sort of demon chakra or some sort of bloodline and it combined and mutated in to the Sharingan?

So now they created this seal which could kill and close the Byakugans secret's I'm guessing if some one of the Hyuuga branch family gets kidnapped they would not hesitate to activate the seal and kill him to seal the Byakugan (This also means if some one who runs away or tries to mate with some one whos out side of the Hyuuga family, man thats got to suck). What sucks more is for the branch family because they realized one person had to use the Jutsu and the Jutsu user cant be marked with the seal or they would die as well... but then who would protect the jutsu using Hyuuga and which Hyuuga would get such a privilege as to be able to use Jutsu to "control" people and hold in their hands the life of another? For they would be targeted for the secrets of the Byakugan. Hence the “branch family aspect” was born the ones who must give their lives and bare the cursed mark a caged bird born in to this destiny to protect the main family, the jutsu user’s and the key’s to the secret’s of the Byakugan. Fuck just thinking about it makes me want to slap Hinata's dad, if you ask me he has not even begun to pay Neji the respect and position he deserves... bah just because his brother was born a minute later. Don’t bother trying to prove me wrong, cause none of it is true just crap I thought of .

Yea, though as far as the cursed Chakra goes its obviously directly related to Uchiha Madra maybe the Kyubi had a run in with him, and something’s occurred or maybe they were working together who knows.

Lmao... listning to Asazaki Ikue - Obokuri-Eemui (Obtain Bearing) from Samurai Champloo while typing my post, damn that gets me depressed! (It's the song when Mugen supposedly dies)

[Xelsol]

I don't think the sharigan was created through kidnapping... I think the Hyuuga clan had something to do with it. I mean as much as the Hyuuga clan's head family looks down on it's own people, I doubt they would allow a mutated form of thier own secret bloodline to live and create thier own clan, unless there was some real purpose behind it.

I think it was spawned as a weapon to combat either the biju or some other evil at that time. The best way to fight evil is to become evil yourself, right? Something probably happened with the Uchiha clan... either couldn't equally fight the evil or rebelled or something, so the next weapon was created... the jinchuriki.

Dunno, just my views.

[Demongod86]

Overall, I think the Sharingan and Byakugan would be cooler if it wasn't just an eye change...one of my friends wore Sharingan contacts and it looked freaky, not cool like it does in the anime...but if the Uchihas had a bad purpose, maybe it was good that Itachi whacked them...

[Sogoro]

I found a theory by someone a long time ago; here it is again:

Many years ago there was a girl from Hyuuga clan who fell in love with an outsider that didn’t belong to the village. She decided to marry herself to the young man despite the strong protests from her own clan. But this man was no ordinary human. In fact, this man was not a human at all. His name was Sojobo. He was the King of Tengu.

There were two types of tengus, Karasu tengu (a crow-like creature with beak and wings) and Konoha tengu (also known as Yamabushi tengu). Sojobo was a Konoha tengu. He had long nose and white hair with a pair of black wings on his back. As the King of Tengu, Sojobo possessed some very mystical powers. He carried a fan made of Fatsia leaf that could create a storm (therefore people sometimes call this leaf as Tengu no Uchiwa or Tengu’s fan). He could teleport himself or any other things from one place to another. He could also communicate with people telepathically or even invade their minds and drive them to madness. Besides, Sojobo was also known for his shapeshifting ability. He sometimes transformed himself into human to interact with people.

http://www.shejapan.com/jtyeholder/j...mage/tengu.jpg

Anyway, this girl from Hyuuga was in love with Sojobo taking the human form without knowing his true identity. She married him shortly after they met each other. A year or two later, she was pregnant and gave birth to their first son. Sojobo named this son Uchiha, Uchiha Madara, after Uchiwa which means fan. And of course as we know, fan also later became the symbol of this new clan.

Everything was good. Uchiha Madara soon grew up to become a very powerful shinobi. He not only inherited the Kekkei Genkai from his mother but with the Tengu blood inside him the Byakugan had evolved into an even more dreadful form—the Sharingan! This new bloodline had 2 levels: Normal Sharingan and Mangekyou Sharingan. Like his tengu father, Madara possessed some incredible magical powers. He was able to use telepathy to invade people’s minds, or even teleport himself across a short distance. When he turned on the Mangekyou Sharingan (he had the normal Sharingan on 24/7 just like his Hyuuga kin), the eyes would further intensify his powers and bring him even closer to a tengu form. He had developed 3 jutsus under this state, namely Tsukiyomi (to control people’s minds and drive them insane), Amaterasu (to teleport objects into another dimension)* and Susanoo (to create a storm like the one created by the Tengu’s fan).

Because of his bravery and almost unparalleled powers, Madara soon became a hero in his people’s eyes despite the fact that he was just a teenager at that time. He became very close friends with Shodaime and together they took up the responsibility to protect the village. Madara founded the first police force in Konoha and swore to protect his people with his own life.

But good things do not last long. As Madara was about to reach his adulthood, Sojobo began to reveal his true intention. Sojobo didn’t marry the girl from Hyuuga out of love. He was only looking for a perfect body, a container (probably to achieve greater powers), and he figured the best way was to create one with his own blood. He was planning on taking over Madara’s body once he reached his adulthood. It didn’t take Uchiha Madara too long to find out this appalling truth. He felt a mixture of shock and anger. He felt himself being used but he wasn’t going to give up his body such easily, at least not without a fight. But Madara knew too well that no matter how strong he was he stood no chance against the King of Tengu. Out of desperation he sought for the legendary Bijuu—Kyuubi (the God of Fire).

Kyuubi was very impressed by Madara’s abilities. A secret pact was made and Kyuubi agreed to lend his power and chakra to Uchiha Madara. Soon Madara had mastered the katon no jutsus and he could even cast a dark fire that would burn for 7 days and 7 nights after performing the Amaterasu. But even with these newly gained powers and unlimited supply of chakra from Kyuubi, Uchiha Madara only barely defeated his demon father. He couldn’t finish him once and for all but only managed to seal him up. However, the seal he used was a very special one. To break the seal it requires Kyuubi’s chakra and also not one but 3 Uchiha members (who can wield Mangekyou Sharingan). This was a hard condition to meet and Madara thought it would be enough to seal up the demon for eternity. But what Madara didn’t anticipate was this seal would trigger a bloody massacre on the Uchiha clan decades later…

There are numerous occasions throughout the manga and the anime where you see tengus and crows, heres proof:

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=14171
Here They are on either side of the Wall from Sasuke, and notice the flames on the sides of the tengu. There are two white flames surrounding it. Have you seen that before?

http://www.streamload.com/Breyzy/hinata.png
Look on her arm, you see the flame, look exactly alike.

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2...mqinane3gl.png
Tengu here at the Konoha shrine.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ther/Tengu.png
And another one there, in the inside of the Konoha Temple.


1) Tsukiyomi—God of the Moon
Full moon is usually related to going insane in urban legends. (Itachi used Tsukiyomi on Sasuke on a full moon night. Coincidence? Or well planned by Kishi?)
MS Tsukiyomi: Drives people insane.

2) Amaterasu—Goddess of the Sun
Our Sun is a huge fireball. Its matter can warp the spacetime around it that produces an effect which we call gravity (In fact all matter can warp the spacetime around it, to a certain extent). Although our Sun doesn't have enough mass to form a blackhole, other more massive stars can, after their deaths (in a spectacular way called supernova explosion)
MS Amaterasu: Teleports things to another dimension by warping the spacetime, leaving a dark fire that will burn for 7 days and 7 nights to destroy the surroundings.

3)Susanoo—God of the Storm
MS Susanoo: Creates a storm?

Here's Sasuke inside of Naruto's head (Telepathy)
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=18067

Itachi teleporting...with a full moon
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=14151

And also, Shusui, the guy Itachi killed was supposedly the fastest person alive "Shunshin no Shisui" but could he have mastered the demon's speed?

The Theory Creator is Yasha from another naruto forum. I suggest doing a google search because some of the links are missing and the version that the creator has posted is in a much better form and is easier to read.

[Sogoro]

and another part

When Shodaime found out about the secret pact between Madara and Kyuubi he was very angry. He thought it was the hunger for power that brought his best friend to Kyuubi. Madara didn’t explain to him either because he didn’t want anybody to know that he was a half-demon. Conflicts began to appear between the two who were once close to each other. The intense hostility finally led to a great battle at the Valley of the End. You might doubt that Shodai could rival both MS and Kyuubi’s power at the same time. Well you better not forget that Shodai had the ability to suppress Kyuubi’s chakra but that’s beside the point.

I will continue the story, but not before posting a couple of pics that will show the ingenuity of Kishimoto-sensei:

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=13786
Naruto stands on Shodaime's head and Sasuke stands on Madara's.

Alright, now back to the story. Many years had come into past since Sojobo was sealed. The tengu’s blood in Uchiha clan was now no longer as pure as it once was. It was gradually “diluted” by constant marriages with non-Uchihas over the generations. Now even the Normal Sharingan was possessed only by the elite few among Uchihas, let alone the Mangekyou Sharingan. But the dark history of the clan was anything but forgotten. A tengu shrine was built underneath the Nakano temple by some of the early Uchiha ancestors to keep all the secrets of the clan inside (including killing your loved one to gain MS which was discovered by some later Uchiha ancestors). Once an Uchiha member was thought to be reliable enough he would be told about the secret meeting place and it would become his life-long obligation to keep these secrets from outsiders. The Uchihas considered this dark history as a huge disgrace and swore to protect the glory and dignity of their clan with their lives no matter what happened.

20 years ago, a new member was born into an Uchiha family. He soon proved himself to be a very special one, even by the high standards of the Uchiha. He graduated at the top of his class at age 7, mastered the Sharingan at 8, became a Chunin at 10 and an ANBU squad leader at 13. His name was Uchiha Itachi. As Itachi was selected to become an ANBU his father Fugaku felt that it was the right time to tell him everything. Itachi learned about the Mangekyou Sharingan and the origin of his clan from his father. Deep inside his mind, an evil thought began to take shape…

Do you remember what Itachi said the day before he killed everyone, "You hold onto your organization, your clan, your name…These things limit us and our capacities…These things deserve to be shunned…It’s foolish to fear what we have yet to see and know!! I’ve lost all hope for this pathetic clan." It was because he knew of the Demon history...

Always living with fear—fear that people may find out the secrets of their clan, fear that people may know Uchihas are actually descendants of demon—they all swore to take the secrets with them to the graveyard. This was the miserable life of every Uchiha member. Itachi was tired of all these. He could see no future for his clan. He didn’t understand why his people felt ashamed of their own past. He didn’t understand why his people didn’t see their superiority to the normal humans. He didn’t understand why his people decided to seal up such a great power and not to use it. Itachi had lost all his hope for the Uchiha clan because of the pathetic “path” they had chosen.

From the moment Itachi heard about the origin of his clan he had a weird sense of superiority. He felt he was somehow more special than the others. Then his distorted mind had gone even further. He wanted the demon to be released. He was willing to sacrifice his body in exchange for probably the strongest power the world had ever seen. He was ready to offer his body to the Tengu King.

Soon Itachi had put his thoughts into action. When he learned about the Akatsuki’s plan to capture the Bijuus he decided to join them. He needed their help to get the Kyuubi’s chakra. But that’s not all. Itachi still had to find another 2 MS users. Somehow he came across another MS user who agreed to help him carry out his plan. Now all he needed was the third and last MS user.

Itachi knew his clan members would never kill their loved ones to get MS. He despised them. They were a bunch of cowards, useless …oh wait, Itachi suddenly came up with an idea—he could still use them to achieve his purpose. He could use them to make his little brother the third MS user…

On a full-moon night, the ancient blood inside Itachi was finally awaken and he had completely lost his mind. He killed his entire clan except his parents. He waited for his little brother Sasuke to come home. He wanted him to witness how his parents were tortured and killed. He used Tsukiyomi on his brother to make sure such a traumatic picture would stay with him for the rest of his life. He wanted Sasuke to hate him. He wanted Sasuke to kill his close friend to activate the Mangekyou Sharingan. He told him about the secret meeting place so that he would find out everything. He wanted Sasuke to take the path he had paved for him—the path of an avenger.

And in the Sasuke vs. Naruto fight, when Sasuke says the infamous line, "Naruto, you're special, but I'm more special" sounds a lot like Itachi. Sasuke now knew that he had demon blood in him and he was about to put it into action. Also, don't you think its funny what his C2 looks like. It actually looks like a Tengu without the long nose he even has the wings and he uses a dark chidori, alot like Naruto's Dark Rasengan that he got from entering 2-tailed form.

Here's some more Tengu-Uchiha connections

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/606...book0783dw.jpg
Tengu's always carry a fan and are sometimes seen playing the flute, and look at this one.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2...51481498qi.jpg

They all somewhat point to the Uchiha having some bloodline connection to the Tengu. The only thing weird is that it does kinda stretch far from what Kishimoto has done thus far, but then again there are biju running around...

[Mangekyo]

I read that theory months ago, my question was if anyone had any speculations as tp why it's cursed.

[Xrayz0r]

That isn't a theory.

It's fanfic.


A theory is based on facts, and someone came up with a story linking these facts all together trying to make it seem plausible.

This however, is COMPLETE fanfic. One of the billiontrillions of possibilites Kishi still has left as an option for when he decides to explain all this.

For now, perhaps we better wait. We haven't yet gotten enough information to even speculate. Frankly, we don't know shit.

[icemaster143]

Sasuke's chakra is in sink with the curse seal, it's part of him now. Remeber the thing spreads through the body like a disease every part of his body has been corrupted by that thing thats why his chakra is black when ever that thing is active. But even when not using it it still has a presance in his system. Theats why his chakra is cursed nothing more.

[tatami]

not sasukes chalra is cursed...it is uchiha clans chakra is cursed i belive?

[kheldorin]

No, it has nothing to do with the cursed seal. The Kyuubi mentioned that he sensed the same cursed chakra from Uchiha Madara as well so it's something to do with the Uchiha blood and not Oro's curse.

[shankss]

can it be hatred what kyuubi talk about saying cursed? sasuke has a great anger towards itachi so this may increase ones spirit that keeps him going..even if you fall you try to stand because of the feeling that your nemesis lives out there..determination? i think the power of that anger can also be mentioned as cursed (maybe uchiha madara has some rival against someone too?)
sasuke or someone else loaded with enough hatred may even have chance against some strongest enemies like bijus.if sasuke completely feels that hes gonna die and thinks that his clans death will not be avenged his power may increase incredibly.its his ultimate goal so fear of losing this goal can force one to do impossible things..

[Sogoro]

Originally Posted by Xrayz0r

That isn't a theory.

It's fanfic.


A theory is based on facts, and someone came up with a story linking these facts all together trying to make it seem plausible.

This however, is COMPLETE fanfic. One of the billiontrillions of possibilites Kishi still has left as an option for when he decides to explain all this.

For now, perhaps we better wait. We haven't yet gotten enough information to even speculate. Frankly, we don't know shit.

The story part just helps to give people an idea of how something might have happened.

Your contradicting yourself when you said a theory is based on facts. Um...What was shown in the Manga is being tied together to create a theory of how the Sharingan came to be...

I assume you believe The Fourth is Naruto's dad...Well this is almost the same thing.

[Suna no tate]

Seems a little far fetched. Uchiha bloodline cursed? I don't think so. Read the manga. I'm sure he says that Sasuke's individual chakra is evil and cursed, not the entire clan. If the kyubi had met sasuke pre timeskip, he might not have said the same thing. In fact, I doubt it. Read the manga.

As for madara, he gets one freaking line in the whole manga, and everyone gets into a fit. He was one uchiha, one person, who's probably dead. Lets get over him at least until his name shows up again. I mean the mizukage of the water village got one line and we don't discuss him like crazy.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Hm....interesting...but my theory would go into the same direction...

This Madara (aint no Yondaime Hokage) is probably like Dracula...the first of his kind...dispised by the Hyuuga Clan...

But having abilities like the Mangekyou Sharingan....brings up alot of questions...
The fact that the Kyuubi spoke of the person Uchiha Madara and Sasuke replying: Then you must be the Kyuubi (something like that) means those 2 have a history.

[spoiler=questions/answers about Mangekyou Sharingan]
IF the Kyuubi is behind it who is evil to the core...then why:

- Gets MS unlocked when you kill someone close to you? (best friend)
Is it because that's the path to the greatest evil?

- Is it coincidence that...The key to the Kyuubi's chakra is actually the same to unlocking MS?
(Emotional)

- Is it also coincidence that there happen to be 3 Uchiha's left? (3 dots)
And 3 possible techniques for MS: Tsukyomi (genjutsu), Ameterasu (ninjutsu), Susanoo (taijutsu)?

- Or could it possibly be like Suna no tate mentioned...that Sasuke's chakra is cursed? "A mix of his Cursed seal chakra+own chakra"

- Is it save to assume that the Kyuubi holds all answers? Since it lived for centuries..

Uchiha Clan, Yondaime Hokage, the Ninja Wars, Kinjutsu etc.

But then again...Kakashi evolved his own Sharingan to a new level..with other techniques..

[Suna no tate]

Who says three possible techniques? I find that dubious logic indeed. So far I think the consensus is that kakashi copied the MS from itachi. If indeed he copied it, he should be able to do amaterasu and tsukuyomi like Itachi can. After all, when kakashi copies jutsus, he usually doesn't screw them up. His current MS is completely different from itachis MS both in shape and in technique. You'd also be insulting itachi in saying that in all his training and geniusness (though I dispute this somewhat), he still never mastered the sharingan since he can't do Kakashi's technique. Come on... more than likely the MS conformation is just a conformation that allows a user specific set of jutsus. A stronger and more active sharingan is all. The actual technique used in that state depends on the user. I don't see sasuke using amaterasu or tsukuyomi, or Kakashi's technique. He will probably have his own.

[tatami]

copy MS from itachi?hmm i thought it was the next step of evolution oin sharingan not a simple ninjutsu technique