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Old 2012-03-25, 23:52   Link #3221
Ypocaramel
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Wait, Mr. Principal, er, Commander is 7th!?
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Old 2012-03-26, 00:00   Link #3222
Chaos2Frozen
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That alone is kinda suspicious, what is the voting sample size? Less than 700 ?
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Old 2012-03-26, 01:28   Link #3223
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
That alone is kinda suspicious, what is the voting sample size? Less than 700 ?
I can't see the kanji with that resolution... but MIX obtained 1938, so I am guessing is votes?
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Old 2012-03-26, 02:03   Link #3224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thess View Post
I can't see the kanji with that resolution... but MIX obtained 1938, so I am guessing is votes?
Kagura- 128
Shrade- 107
Andy- 105
Cayenne- 98
Jin- 91
Amata- 80
commander- 30
Zen- 26
Mikage- 25
Izumo- 22
Donar- 16
Moroi- 11
Last 2 aren't shown on the image but listed on the link


Mix- 1938
Zessica- 1902
Yunoha- 1881
Sazanka- 1609
Crea- 1606
Ei- 1436
Suomi- 1376
Alicia- 1375
Mikono- 1039

I see a lot of bias towards the females lol
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Old 2012-03-26, 02:39   Link #3225
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Kagura- 128
Shrade- 107
Andy- 105
Cayenne- 98
Jin- 91
Amata- 80
commander- 30
Zen- 26
Mikage- 25
Izumo- 22
Donar- 16
Moroi- 11
Last 2 aren't shown on the image but listed on the link


Mix- 1938
Zessica- 1902
Yunoha- 1881
Sazanka- 1609
Crea- 1606
Ei- 1436
Suomi- 1376
Alicia- 1375
Mikono- 1039

I see a lot of bias towards the females lol
Well, it was expected, because of the demographics. MIX, Zessica and Yunoha easily dominate the poll.
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Old 2012-03-26, 03:10   Link #3226
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I concur to the fujoshi poll.

I would have put Cayenne before Andy and Shrade though.





I suppose Mikono not being a very proactive thoughful GF, the jelly (though mostly understandable), and the little "incident" with Kagura at the end of episode 5 probably rub the otakus/purity fags in the wrong direction.


How is it that Zessica isn't number one ?!!!
Otaku sure love their Tsuderes. Or is it the boobs ? XD

Last edited by Zuul; 2012-03-26 at 03:25.
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Old 2012-03-26, 03:23   Link #3227
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This seems to be a male fans-based poll... otherwise, I bet Jin would be higher.

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How is it that Zessica isn't number one ?!!!
Otaku sure love their Tsuderes. Or is it the boobs ? XD
MIX's design is just too cool. I love it too. Also, MIX, Zessica and the loli aren't that apart from each other.

While poor Mikono...

Source of the poll. Yeah not a small poll at all.
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Old 2012-03-26, 03:32   Link #3228
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This seems to be a male fans-based poll... otherwise, I bet Jin would be higher.



MIX's design is just too cool. I love it too. Also, MIX, Zessica and the loli aren't that apart from each other.

While poor Mikono...
I think the authors purposelly gave her that little irritating something, with the negativity, lack of thoughfulness toward Amata etc, which actually makes me like her more than him who is more straightforwardly nice .
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Old 2012-03-26, 15:27   Link #3229
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I want to remind everyone to please use the Episode threads from now on to discuss what happens in the episodes proper. If you're subscribed to this thread, please consider subscribing to the sub-forum. This thread can be used for more general topics. I moved a few posts from this thread to the Episode 13 thread to keep everything grouped together.
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Old 2012-03-29, 11:35   Link #3230
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There isn't merchandise thread yet so I'll post it here.
Quote:
2012年7月發售: Figuarts ZERO Aquarion EVOL - Mikono Suzushiro
フィギュアーツZERO ミコノ・スズシロ
 
『アクエリオンEVOL』よりミコノ・スズシロが登場!
一部クリアパーツも使用したスカートがポイント。シュシュ付属。
Bandai will release Mikono on Figuarts Zero figure line on July. There's no prototype picture yet though...
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Old 2012-04-05, 08:33   Link #3231
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Is anyone here fans of Crea? I really like her. Her nonchalant attitude just makes her cute.
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Old 2012-04-14, 03:26   Link #3232
ThomasRomain
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I posted some concept art on catsuka forum:

http://www.catsuka.com/interf/forum/...7157&start=257

Please check it out!
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Old 2012-04-14, 04:28   Link #3233
Zuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasRomain View Post
I posted some concept art on catsuka forum:

http://www.catsuka.com/interf/forum/...7157&start=257

Please check it out!
Magnifique !!
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Old 2012-04-14, 06:54   Link #3234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasRomain View Post
I posted some concept art on catsuka forum:

http://www.catsuka.com/interf/forum/...7157&start=257

Please check it out!
It's like I'm on discovery channel.
Altair is really an interesting planet.
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Old 2012-04-15, 18:19   Link #3235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasRomain View Post
I posted some concept art on catsuka forum:

http://www.catsuka.com/interf/forum/...7157&start=257

Please check it out!
Wow, these are awesome, thanks for sharing! I don't suppose you can tell me what those triangle thingies are around Mykage's ice crystal lair?
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Old 2012-04-16, 23:53   Link #3236
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Seems like someone finally decided to make islands and develop Hong Kong south Merci.
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Old 2012-04-19, 12:37   Link #3237
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Moving us over...

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Yes, but consider: those were conflicts that were set to be resolved within one episode (or in case of Jin and Yunoha, two eps). Also, they were secondary relationships without much particular weight, never mind long-term importance. And they didn't do a particularly fantastic job on either: Andy learned of Mix's real issues by eavesdropping on Mikono telling Amata her story (lazy, lazy writing), and Jin and Yunoha's relationship developed at a breakneck speed considering Jin's personality. Still, those were doable.
Andy and MIX was hanging in the air for at least four episodes, was alluded to in the third episode with the whole thing about sensing the girl who filled his holes, and the general animosity between MIX and Andy. The method around which they revealed the truth to Andy is not what I'd call lazy perse, its fairly standard sequencing because Andy's only connection to the female side (as its fairly evident that he's not exactly seen in the best light amongst the girls) is through Amata but asking Amata, out of the blue, would have been rather random. The set-up prevents any better way of revealing it, really.

Jin and Yunoha did develop at a breakneck speed but that's fine when you consider the actors: Jin is completely isolated in ND, entirely out of his element, but some protoculture suddenly starts being nice to him in a way that doesn't completely get him running away in panic: by keeping her distance and trying to direct him. That's the whole point of it being Yunoha and Jin, and not any of the other girls. Those two have similar personality quirks and can, and did, express empathy towards one another which allowed them to bond quickly (we already knew that Yunoha, being so isolated, quickly formed attachments to people who treated her normally). Out of the four episodes where it was *there*, two were devoted to it developing it while two others had flashes of just what it was that made Yunoha different from every other girl for Jin. Such scenes are not juxtaposed for the lulz.

Certainly, they are not perfectly handled and they do have a grace of being secondary characters with no nearly as much needed foreplay or development, but it makes the point that they can do it, they can do it decently enough, and the issues faced by the quadrangle are not so different from the issues of the other characters, its just how said characters act. The biggest examples are, quite honestly, Andy and Amata: One confronts the issue head on, the other dances around the point and mopes until the issue physically manifests.


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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Thing is, this is where they stumbled. Kagura wasn't the elephant in the room for how many episodes, before he suddenly became one just so they could set up his appearance in the next miniarc. They could've made him so, but that would've required more attention and careful setup. Instead we had Amata and Mikono getting shoved into the background while focusing on secondary characters.
Start:
Episode 6 - Kagura Appears.
Episode 7 - Kagura plays elephant in the room for Mikono.
Episode 8 - Kagura is in a cage. Amata buys the picture with Kagura (elephant), Amata and Mikono have little screen time together, alone, so the problem would have been hard to really show. It is alluded to, though, with Amata's *must protect*. There's really only one thing he can be referring to...
Episode 9 - Focuses on MIX and Andy, very little time for Amata and Mikono until the very end, and then a Fudo happens.
Episode 10 - ALL about Jin.
Episode 11 - Elephants.
Episode 12 - Bonding -> Elephant Appears.

I think what they were aiming for is that its implied to be on their minds, they simply didn't bother to spell it out time and again in episodes where the show focused on giving the rest of the cast some depth (9, 10). I don't agree on the severity though I can agree that the execution leaves a bit too much to interpretation.


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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Correction: the entire love quadrangle. Because uh, what exactly made Zessica fall in love with Amata in the first place? (aside of her seeing him half-naked? ) And let's not even get into Kagura, and as you also noted, Mikono's flashes of being completely irrational. (forgive him? Shushu likes him? what? if these are intended as a foundation of her developing feelings for him they're not doing it right. Btw, also note Yunoha's utter non-reaction at Mikono saying this stuff about the guy who killed how many of her classmates, and whose attack indirectly caused Jin's death.)
Zessica? That's actually something I find fairly *up to the future* to explain. Her base interest in Amata as Amata started from the get go of the show but the jump from *interest* to *trust*, while implied by becoming friends loosely, is a bit open around Episode 7. There's something hanging over her head with the whole afraid of the dark thing and, unless the show goes without ever mentioning it again, its something that may explain a good bit. (As for falling in love? Fudo alludes to it in Episode 8, when you throw away all your defenses you are strong but also weak. Trust is, usually, the last defense a person has. So the question isn't how did she fall in *love* but how did she come to *trust*.)

The rest is fairly standard fare: Likes innocent boys. Teases innocent boy. Starts to like innocent boy.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
That wasn't really asking her to cut it out, it was just part of the joke.
*Stop* is, usually, asking someone to stop, even if its part of the joke.


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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
It lasted much longer (can't check atm how many eps), but even if it only lasted only two episodes, it could've been over much sooner if Amata just told Mikono how his floating works. Which he of course never did because then there goes the plot.
Episode 5: Starts.
Episode 6: Fight episode, irrelevant and is never brought up.
Episode 7: Resolved with Yunoha, and Amata, quite clearly, being shown to fly for everything. After that, it was just Mikono being unreasonably jelly for something that, at that point, she knows and has admitted is completely beyond Amata's control.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Eps 1-2 - would've been useful. (Have you seen him dismantling the cockpit like that when he took MIkono out? yeah.)
Shrade ep - reverse flight, reverse impact, reverse whip.... and we've seen him glow red and then do nothing.
Etc etc, this is not that thread - basically, I think they weren't handling this well either.
I don't get the reference for Ep.1-2.
Amata doesn't immediately start flying in Ep.6, first he's falling. I don't know if Kagura can reverse GRAVITY. And, didn't he glow red just before beating back Shrade and his music?
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Old 2012-04-19, 14:01   Link #3238
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Andy and MIX was hanging in the air for at least four episodes, was alluded to in the third episode with the whole thing about sensing the girl who filled his holes, and the general animosity between MIX and Andy. The method around which they revealed the truth to Andy is not what I'd call lazy perse, its fairly standard sequencing because Andy's only connection to the female side (as its fairly evident that he's not exactly seen in the best light amongst the girls) is through Amata but asking Amata, out of the blue, would have been rather random. The set-up prevents any better way of revealing it, really.
The Andy and Mix "animosity" was hanging in the air, yes, but there was no conflict to speak of. When the conflict came it lasted one episode. And Andy learned the truth that led him to resolve the conflict not by actually confronting Mix but by chance, from an outside source. Not exactly the pinnacle of Solving Issues By Character Interaction.

As for Jin and Yunoha, you can analyze everything and find explanations, but the speed was in fact out of character for Jin, and Yunoha as well (though at least she was given a believable motivation). It was just unnaturally fast. It doesn't help that they needed to focus so much on developing it in order to get a reaction out of the viewers at Jin's eventual death that the Jin x Yunoha relationship overshadowed nearly everything else.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Certainly, they are not perfectly handled and they do have a grace of being secondary characters with no nearly as much needed foreplay or development, but it makes the point that they can do it, they can do it decently enough, and the issues faced by the quadrangle are not so different from the issues of the other characters, its just how said characters act.
Again: the writers are avoiding handling scenes that lead to a certain direction. Just think about what Mikono just said to Yunoha in the latest episode. And Yunoha had no reaction. Of course she had no reaction, because that would lead the scene to a direction that writers don't want to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
The biggest examples are, quite honestly, Andy and Amata: One confronts the issue head on, the other dances around the point and mopes until the issue physically manifests.
Uh, that's not even an issue: Andy is the type who confronts things head-on, Amata the type who is not good at confronting things head-on.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I think what they were aiming for is that its implied to be on their minds, they simply didn't bother to spell it out time and again in
Which is the problem: they didn't imply it well enough, and then the execution was completely out of the blue. Both Mikono and Amata had exactly one scene where they even thought about Kagura, and neither scenes had no further percussion, in the following episodes they were shown to be perfectly good together with Kagura causing no tension at all between them. And then much later suddenly TENSION and KAGURA. Wuh?

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Zessica? That's actually something I find fairly *up to the future* to explain. ...
Yeah, but you see, you're coming forward with your idea of why and how, instead of the writers showing us why, or at least alluding to it. (FYI, I had a completely different explanation in mind. )
Btw here I'd just like to note that at this point we know more about Yunoha than about Zessica.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
*Stop* is, usually, asking someone to stop, even if its part of the joke.
I mean, it was treated as part of the joke and not as an attempt at communication. Amata never seriously asked her to stop, because then she would have had to react to that and that would've complicated things. And again, it's not the length of the conflict , it's the writers avoiding making the characters do the logical thing (even from their POV) because that would go against their plans. Amata could've told Mikono how his power works at any time, thereby avoiding the entire conflict, but clearly that's not what the writers wanted. Result: everyone behaves in an unreasonable way.

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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
I don't get the reference for Ep.1-2.
Amata doesn't immediately start flying in Ep.6, first he's falling. I don't know if Kagura can reverse GRAVITY. And, didn't he glow red just before beating back Shrade and his music?
OK, to borrow your methods:
Ep 1-2: Kagura wants Mikono. He has Aquarion pinned down. With his power he can essentially dismantle a mecha, but what does he do instead? starts banging on Aquarion like an idiot. And then he again doesn't do anything as Amata (having powered up) kicks his ass.
Ep 6: He glows red AFTER he's already made Shrade lose the violin. Shrade stands there completely unarmed, preparing for physical combat (where Kagura would clearly have the upper hand), Kagura glows red, and... scrams. What. Also ep 6: he could've avoided getting his ass kicked by: a) reversing Aquarion's flight power, b) reversing the damage done to his mecha (remember what he'd done to Cayenne? yeah), c) hell, reversing the gattai, he's probably hax enough to do that. Instead he got his ass kicked.

And you can't even say that his power was a result of Mykage's boost because one, he had glowed red as early as ep 6, two, he wasn't surprised in the least by his power and knew how to use it, three, in ep 15 he managed to do everything without Mykage's support. So.


Again, just to restate the point I'm trying to make: it's not that the writers are handling specifically Amata and Mikono badly, the problems involve other characters as well, and are stemming from a general issue with the writing.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-04-19 at 14:14.
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Old 2012-04-19, 15:05   Link #3239
Vena
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
The Andy and Mix "animosity" was hanging in the air, yes, but there was no conflict to speak of. When the conflict came it lasted one episode. And Andy learned the truth that led him to resolve the conflict not by actually confronting Mix but by chance, from an outside source. Not exactly the pinnacle of Solving Issues By Character Interaction.
The conflict existed through the whole start, it was figurative but implied with the dig holes/fill holes. Or so I thought.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
As for Jin and Yunoha, you can analyze everything and find explanations, but the speed was in fact out of character for Jin, and Yunoha as well (though at least she was given a believable motivation). It was just unnaturally fast. It doesn't help that they needed to focus so much on developing it in order to get a reaction out of the viewers at Jin's eventual death that the Jin x Yunoha relationship overshadowed nearly everything else.
Out of character for Jin? He didn't even have much of a character prior to interacting with Yunoha and coming to Daeva. He was an otaku, proud, and the last son of Altair. He hadn't effectively had any other interactions to have a defined character.

I'll agree that it was fast and that it was fast to fit it in for his death.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Again: the writers are avoiding handling scenes that lead to a certain direction. Just think about what Mikono just said to Yunoha in the latest episode. And Yunoha had no reaction. Of course she had no reaction, because that would lead the scene to a direction that writers don't want to deal with.
Mikono's logic is utterly baffling as is Yunoha's lack of reaction. This much we can agree on...

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Uh, that's not even an issue: Andy is the type who confronts things head-on, Amata the type who is not good at confronting things head-on.
Hasn't this been a huge chunk of Amata's character development? You cannot fight fate/destiny by just sitting around and waiting for it to hit you in the face.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Which is the problem: they didn't imply it well enough, and then the execution was completely out of the blue. Both Mikono and Amata had exactly one scene where they even thought about Kagura, and neither scenes had no further percussion, in the following episodes they were shown to be perfectly good together with Kagura causing no tension at all between them. And then much later suddenly TENSION and KAGURA. Wuh?
And, see, I thought that the scenes, thought a bit too few, painted the picture well enough but that it could have certainly been made much clearer without such a large need to pay attention to the more minor, background details. As for the lack repercussions, doesn't this tie into the fact that, well, Amata and Mikono suck at talking to one another.

I'm going to stick with Elephant in the Room for them.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Yeah, but you see, you're coming forward with your idea of why and how, instead of the writers showing us why, or at least alluding to it. (FYI, I had a completely different explanation in mind. )
Btw here I'd just like to note that at this point we know more about Yunoha than about Zessica.
I was trying to say that Zessica still has a mysterious background, just like Amata, Mykage, Fudo, Izumo, and Alicia. The only people in this show that we know anything about are secondary characters, Mikono, and Kagura (by his profile). The mysteries floating around could easily be used to explain how she came to fell in love, and I offered an explanation that I thought was possible but (like I said) depends on the *past*.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I mean, it was treated as part of the joke and not as an attempt at communication. Amata never seriously asked her to stop, because then she would have had to react to that and that would've complicated things. And again, it's not the length of the conflict , it's the writers avoiding making the characters do the logical thing (even from their POV) because that would go against their plans. Amata could've told Mikono how his power works at any time, thereby avoiding the entire conflict, but clearly that's not what the writers wanted. Result: everyone behaves in an unreasonable way.
Amata does try to explain himself to Mikono through the seventh episode, she just refuses to listen until Yunoha spells it out for her. When was he going to tell her before that? In Episode 5 when he pushes Zessica off (that's telling someone to stop) and chases after her? When? The moment sweeps them up pretty quick and then a Kagura happens. Episode 6 would have been out of the question... and its resolved in Episode 7. Amata's flying after that is fully within explained bounds.


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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
OK, to borrow your methods:
Ep 1-2: Kagura wants Mikono. He has Aquarion pinned down. With his power he can essentially dismantle a mecha, but what does he do instead? starts banging on Aquarion like an idiot. And then he again doesn't do anything as Amata (having powered up) kicks his ass.
Ep 6: He glows red AFTER he's already made Shrade lose the violin. Shrade stands there completely unarmed, preparing for physical combat (where Kagura would clearly have the upper hand), Kagura glows red, and... scrams. What. Also ep 6: he could've avoided getting his ass kicked by: a) reversing Aquarion's flight power, b) reversing the damage done to his mecha (remember what he'd done to Cayenne? yeah), c) hell, reversing the gattai, he's probably hax enough to do that. Instead he got his ass kicked.

And you can't even say that his power was a result of Mykage's boost because one, he had glowed red as early as ep 6, two, he wasn't surprised in the least by his power and knew how to use it, three, in ep 15 he managed to do everything without Mykage's support. So.
Now this I simply do not agree with it. Its made explicitly clear/obvious in Episode 13(?) when Kagura fights everyone that he has a MASSIVE power-up from Altair and Mykage, and that that is why he can do everything (that's why closing the portal was such an imperative). (Amata even remarks that there's something coming off the the mecha and Kagura.) I mean its made painfully clear that he can only reverse the damage from the Spada because of that power. The moment its cut off, his mecha is cut in two. I don't think they could have made it any more clear than that. His power is, without that power, quite a bit more limited. In Episode 14/15 he undergoes the same power-up ritual but from Mykage, so at that point his power has, once again, increased.

So reverse what you listed:
Ep 1-2: He couldn't undo shit, the only way for him to get to Mikono was to bash open the cockpit.
Ep 6: The glow is ??? but he doesn't have the powers you think he does. He cannot reverse the damage (reference Ep. 13 when his power is cut off, the Spada shreds him). Similarly, he does not have the power to stop the EVOL from gattaing.
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Old 2012-04-19, 15:34   Link #3240
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FWIW: I think we can *all* agree that that Mikono-Yunoha scene is probably the front-runner for the "all-around weakest scene" award (at least so far, sigh).

Not having Zessica go as a favor to Amata is a huge missed opportunity; it could've been done very naturally and would have tied everything together cleanly (even if Mikono still had her ridiculous line, sigh).

In re the rest: Zessica's backstory better turn out to be really interesting, Kagura sucks at using his powers except when he doesn't suck at using his powers, we still don't know what's up with Beastwolf!, and most of our characters suck at talking, logic, or both. But it's still a fun show despite all that!
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