(L) Simoun

[Veritas]

Well, that was okay. The first episode set the bar pretty high, and it all pretty much went downhill and then leveled out from there, except for a few peaks (eps. 16, 19, and parts of some others). Not terrible by any means, but I still feel somewhat cheated out of the exhilaration I felt during the premiere. At the very least, it was different, which, in this terrible time of 50 eroge conversions coming out every year, is something rare and precious.

[oneplusme]

Originally Posted by Veritas

Well, that was okay. The first episode set the bar pretty high, and it all pretty much went downhill and then leveled out from there, except for a few peaks (eps. 16, 19, and parts of some others).

Interesting... The almost universal reaction I've encountered is that people think the first episode's a mess and that 12-20 is the strongest part of the series. (I think it was episode 4 that really sold it for me, although in retrospect I quite like 1 and 2 as well now.)

[NaweG]

Originally Posted by oneplusme

Interesting... The almost universal reaction I've encountered is that people think the first episode's a mess and that 12-20 is the strongest part of the series. (I think it was episode 4 that really sold it for me, although in retrospect I quite like 1 and 2 as well now.)

I believe the comment was referring to the animation quality. It appeared to me that the most was budgeted for the first and last episodes, and then kind of appropriated somewhat unevenly throughout the rest of the series.

Can't blame them. I can only imagine what some of those scenes would have taken if they were fully animated...

[Veritas]

Thanks for the support, but no, I meant the action (not the fighting action, but simply what went on). I didn't find it hard to follow in the slightest, and I got that feel that what was taking place was enormous. Then things shifted focus to the personal, which isn't bad, but was just smaller. It's like opening with an Olympic sprint, then down shifting to a recreational jog.

[rishidan]

I finally carved out some time over the last few nights to sit down and watch the entire series and, wow.

No. Really... wow.

This may sound odd but there are very few series that have effected me so emotionally and I can honestly say that I'm sad that Simoun came to it's inevitable end.

It does worry me that the loose ends in the series will never be tied up, tho. I hope I'm wrong but by looking at the market, it seems to be a fact that when a series does even moderately well, there's always a ton of merchandise for sale but, short of the game and the standard fare of minor items (pencil boards, post cards, posters) I've not seen any tangible merchandise (figurines, toy Simoun, etc.).

That leads me to the question: Did Simoun not do all that well in Japan?

OK, so before I ask any (more) stupid questions I'll try to go back through the thread and see what's been discussed. (a daunting task if I've ever seen one)

Thanks,




-=Rish

[fignae]

Originally Posted by rishidan

That leads me to the question: Did Simoun not do all that well in Japan?

You can do your own search in time but some interesting info can be found on pages 82 and 102, for starters.

The first episode was very effective in giving the wrong impression.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by rishidan

I hope I'm wrong but by looking at the market, it seems to be a fact that when a series does even moderately well, there's always a ton of merchandise for sale but, short of the game and the standard fare of minor items (pencil boards, post cards, posters) I've not seen any tangible merchandise (figurines, toy Simoun, etc.).

You're right, the merchandise is sorely lacking The only figures I'm aware of are the Maruya garage kits, which are obviously a labour of love (although this little beauty showed up at TAF 2006, never to be seen again).

Given how open-ended the show was, it's also surprising how few doujinshi are out there - I've been watching YJ for the last year but I've only seen half a dozen or so fly by. (Maybe there are ecchi ones doing the rounds if you know where to look, but all the doujinshi I've picked up have been affectionate and slightly goofy take-offs of the show.)

That leads me to the question: Did Simoun not do all that well in Japan?

If anyone here's going to Anime Boston this weekend, perhaps they can diplomatically ask Nishimura-sensei that very question. I haven't seen any sales figures after the first couple of DVDs, but I take heart from the fact that the show is being re-broadcast on AT-X. Maybe it's a bit of a sleeper in Japan, same as it's been for the sub audience?

Regardless, I hope that Boston-bound Simoun fans will noisily express how much some of us love this show. And report back with any juicy tidbits from the panels, especially regards to licensing


Hmm, I see that Nishimura's next project is screen-writing for Code-E. It's directed by Toshiyuki Kato who did some of the Simoun episodes, and features Nazuka Kaori who voiced Yun (and Nao in Windy Tales - on a slight tangent, I watched that series again just recently and was struck by how the "flash-forwards" in the final episode were reminiscent of our own ep26). Worth keeping in mind...

[m000m000]

So, any Anime Boston attendees want to give us a condensed transcript of the panel?

[WanderingKnight]

Man, how the hell did I postpone such a gem? I suck.

Just watched the final episode. Beautiful in excess. And kudos for being the first anime that used and applied tango music effectively (tango is one of our country's national musical genres, mind you ).

And I'm happy there were so many unanswered questions, because the open ending was performed correctly.

And yeah, no sequels, please.

[xObserveRx]

I have to agree with most people on the start of this series.

I started watching it when it was first getting subbed and I gotta admit that the first 4 or 5 episodes were very misleading as to how engrossin the series would eventually become. There's no doubt that the beginning was involving; different style than a lot of stuff I've seen, but it paled in comparison to the final 7 or 8 episodes.

What really affected me in this series was the underlying theme of not wanting to grow up; clinging to the past and wanting the present to last forever. This is an issue I think many people go through at some point in their lives and there was no better time for me to watch this series than now.

Possible spoilers coming up, so I whited out this text. (Just highlight it if you've seen the series already.)


The ending wasn't exactly bad, or did it really leave any unanswered questions. Sure you could say "what happened to the characters later on though?" but that's ALWAYS a question. Should the series have a sequel? Yes and no. This (much much more than Mai HiME) should've been given the "alternate universe" type of sequel, as it deals with such occurrences much more throughout the series, whereas Mai HiME did nothing of the sort.

One remaining question I do have was answered in the series itself, but during my watching, had me incredibly confused (I watched the episodes over a few nights and usually quite late as well). I first thought it was clearly obvious that the girls who were drawing the emerald Ri Majon were attempting to change the course of the present time depicted in the series. However, the intent of the pairs who left the current timeline eventually became more and more vague. I eventually just accepted that Pairs were leaving and journeying through time everywhere and anywhere. But if someone could give me their take on this, I'd much appreciate it.



So with that being said, anyone who started watching this series, but found the beginning a little too much (or too less) for them, I urge you to give this series another shot. I believe it was the series of 2006 for sure, regardless of that one other series everyone was talking about... what was her name again?

[WanderingKnight]

I believe it was the series of 2006 for sure, regardless of that one other series everyone was talking about... what was her name again?

Now, now, there's no need to be competing to see who's the most badass. There were plenty of series I enjoyed in 2006, namely Kanon, SHnY, Welcome to the NHK, etc... and the fact that Simoun is a great series doesn't prevent me from enjoying the rest of them. And shouldn't prevent you, either

[Matrim]

So nice to see more and more people coming to this thread to praise or just say what they thought of Simoun. There weren't that many of us discussing the series while it was airing as one might think after looking at the number of posts.

This may sound odd but there are very few series that have effected me so emotionally

It does not sound odd at all, at least not to me. It still affects me a lot emotionally, even when watching scenes which I have rewatched quite a lot of times.

Possible spoilers coming up, so I whited out this text.

Why don't you just use the spoiler tag - first button from the right above the text box?

Spoiler for entire series:

One remaining question I do have was answered in the series itself, but during my watching, had me incredibly confused (I watched the episodes over a few nights and usually quite late as well). I first thought it was clearly obvious that the girls who were drawing the emerald Ri Majon were attempting to change the course of the present time depicted in the series. However, the intent of the pairs who left the current timeline eventually became more and more vague. I eventually just accepted that Pairs were leaving and journeying through time everywhere and anywhere. But if someone could give me their take on this, I'd much appreciate it.

I am not too sure if I understand your question but I will try to answer anyway. IMO, Rimone and Dominura did the Emerald Ri-Maajon partly because of curiousity, partly because it was the only to stop the enemy attack and partly because it seemed to them like the ultimate way of showing the strength of their bond as a Pair. Aaeru and Neviril did it in order to postpone going to the spring (maybe indefinitely), try to find Amuria, Rimone and Dominura and just see what happens when they achieve the impossible. The Temple One was convinced that the Emerald Ri-Maajoon would change the present and the future of Simulacrum but I guess she was wrong. Or rather she was right but this had already happened and Dominura and Rimone simply started the process that led to the events shown in the series, not change things into soem completely new direction.

[ujiuji]

I posted my thoughts a while back when I was about half way through the series. Having promised to come back when I'd finished & share my further thoughts, well here they are.
I don't think Simoun was a great series. It was good. Of all the 2006 series I watched it was the one that provoked the most thought; and annoyance and frustration. But also a great deal of enjoyment and, finally, emotional satisfaction. Throughout I felt it excelled at the small intimate moments whereas the big dramatic happenings & emotions fell flat. Obviously, looking through this thread, that is not everybody's reaction. So please bear in mind I'm just saying how the story struck me; not pronouncing an absolute judgement.
So, for me, the best parts were the "in between" episodes where not much happened in terms of the big plot & the last few episodes dealing with the aftermath of the "main event". Particularly the last episode which I...
I've just tried several attempts to express my feelings about it, can we just say I loved the last episode? The scene with Wauf, Morinas & Erif alone was enough to make watching the entire series worthwhile.
(A special mention to the Morinas x Wapourif relationship, which while going on almost in the backgroud, was subtle & satisfying).
Final thoughts: by no means perfect but a satisfyingly adult conclusion was the decisive plus point.

Edit: How could I forget the obligatory and deserved thanks to Simoun-Fans for the subs?

[Kaoru Chujo]

Yes, it's great to hear the opinions of people who are coming to Simoun fresh, as opposed to those of us who watched the raws and speedsubs when it was coming out.

Of course, I'm one who thought it was a "masterpiece," and I'm sticking with that, at least until I can rewatch the whole thing. It was the characters and their relationships and their reactions to the war that made the show great for me. ujiuji uses the word "adult" about the conclusion, and I have to admit that I actually believe that the heart of the appeal of the show to me is connected to that "adult" feeling. Not that I could define what I mean. Maybe it has to do with the kinds and depth of emotions it provoked in me. ujiuji also points out some of what was great about the last episode.

But it's certainly true that liking Simoun doesn't mean you have to hate other series. I thought three "masterpieces" started last April: Simoun, NANA, and Suzumiya Haruhi. Each outstanding in its own way. I don't see anything like them this April, unless Touka Gettan continues to get better. But I'm finding lots of enjoyable shows: Lucky Star, Hitohira, Seirei no Moribito, Emily of New Moon, sola, maybe Darker than Black, Claymore, Bokurano, Hayate.

To Matrim's summary, I'd add one thing about the thoughts of some sibyllae...

Spoiler for ancient sibyllae and the Emerald Ri Maajon:

I think the sibyllae trained by Limone and Dominura were venturing into the unknown both out of a sense of adventure and in the service of their people, since the old man said that the Emerald brought blessings to the land.

[rishidan]

Originally Posted by Simon

You're right, the merchandise is sorely lacking The only figures I'm aware of are the Maruya garage kits, which are obviously a labour of love

Anyone have a clue as to how to get one of the garage kits? Or is it even possible at this point since the show ended over 7 months ago.

It's unfortunate but my Japanese is sorely lacking (read non-existent) so I'm forced to navigate Japanese websites by hovering over links and looking at the status bar. For the last 2 years even that's proving difficult due to the fact that most sites have stopped coding their links in html.

Originally Posted by Simon

(although this little beauty showed up at TAF 2006, never to be seen again).

Holy @#$% but that's a perfect pose! It's an awful shame that no one has info or a lead on the company that put out for demo; at least that would have been a starting point.


-=Rish

[rishidan]

So, I just came across this "goodie" from the September 12th, 2006:

Originally Posted by eggplant

On a different note, I've received requests of TV ratings and DVD sales data for Simoun, as per my post in the Ah! My Goddess thread.

I'm slightly hesitant to show the ratings, as they are somewhat abysmal, regardless of the fact that ratings are neither the determining factor of late night anime popularity, nor basis for a sequel. But if it serves as reference, here it is (up to Episode 17):

1　　2　　3　　4　　5　　6　　7　 8　　9　 10　11　12　 13　14　 15　16　17
0.9/0.3/1.1/0.9/0.9/0.8/0.6/0.6/0.9/0.7/1.0/0.9/1.2/0.6/0.3/1.1/0.9

As for DVD sales, all I know is that initial sales for Vol. 1, released on August 25, did not make it into the weekly Top 100 Anime DVD sales chart, meaning it sold less than 1,400 copies.

Good god! It only sold 1400!?!? My heart ached when I read this because I know darn well that if Brittany Spears made a CD consisting of nothing more than the sounds of her working through a box of Kleenex, it would still sell more.

So, I've got a question which I've been wondering about for a while... Not counting Simoun, Am I the only one who falls in love with shows that receive miserable ratings?

For instance: When I peruse the T.V. Guide Fall Preview I can usually pick the ones that won't make it past mid season (if they get that far) because they appeal to me.

Note: I was wrong about Lost. But to be fair, I did get tired of it 2/3rds of the way through the first season and haven't watched it since. I'm not sure how to classify that one...

-=Rish

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by rishidan

Am I the only one who falls in love with shows that receive miserable ratings?

Definitely not. My favorite show this season is Touka Gettan. I haven't seen the TV ratings, but it certainly isn't getting a lot of mind-share on 2channel (four threads, compared to eight for Darken than Black, thirty-odd for Gurren Lagen and Lucky Star, and seventy-odd for Nanoha). I like Rocket Girls, which has taken two months to start being subbed in English. And Emily of New Moon, which hasn't got an English sub yet. I fluctuate between worrying about my own taste and thinking that the mass of anime viewers are children and fools. I have settled on the idea that tastes just differ and that absolute ratings are impossible -- although I do still think that Simoun is a great anime that just eliminated too many possible viewers with the kisses and the unusual characters and story.

[Veritas]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

the mass of anime viewers are children and fools.

True, and applicable to everything, not just anime. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing at least some sort of followup, though I don't know about what exactly. A prequel would be interesting. It could showcase Chor Tempest at its peak. It's a pity about the lack of merchandise, since I would definitely drop a few hundred on a high quality model Simoun. And Neviril's hair clips, Aaeru's locket, and am I the only one who thinks a maaju pool bathing suit would be awesome?

[Kaoru Chujo]

I don't like to see one phrase of mine quoted so baldly out of context, so here's the whole context. No blame, Veritas, just so as not to leave too unmixed an impression.

Originally Posted by me

...I fluctuate between worrying about my own taste and thinking that the mass of anime viewers are children and fools. I have settled on the idea that tastes just differ and absolute ratings are impossible....

[Matrim]

I never really worry about my taste. Apart from worrying sometimes that I am losing my time with something that is utterly forgettable, yet somewhat enjoyable, that is. But if the mass of viewers like a certain movie and I think it's horrible, it's a lot more likely for me to feel proud for "going against the flow" than to think that they might be right and I might be wrong. Probably because I don't think there is any right and wrong in matters of taste. And even if we assume that my taste is bad, it doesn't really hurt anybody, so I will continue to indulge it, thank you very much.

And to stay on topic the Morinas figurine showing her holding a model Simoun just rocks.

I do still think that Simoun is a great anime that just eliminated too many possible viewers with the kisses and the unusual characters and story.

Yes, we have already discussed how it managed to turn away both people who started watching it for the yuri (part of whom presumably got bored by the complex world and lots of character develoment and maybe the prospect of half the cast becoming male in the end ) and those who started watching it in order to see sci-fi action/drama (turned away by the fanservice and the rapid plunging into important events without any real introduction). And it seems it was marketed with an emphasis on the fanservice which makes it a bit harder to convince people that it can be serious and deep.