Medaka Box [Manga]

[17Sevens]

Originally Posted by novalysis

A male Medaka and a Female Zenkichi might actually make for an interesting story

Heh, I wonder if more people would like Medaka if the character were male. All the cries of "Unfair! Broken!" would be replaced with "Brilliant! What a chessmaster!"

[Lupus753]

It is also true that borderline abuse is roughly 542x as creepy when done by a male to a female rather than the other way around. Ever read those Neon Genesis Evangelion what-ifs that switch the genders of Shinji and Asuka? I rest my case.

[DawnEmperor]

Originally Posted by 17Sevens

Heh, I wonder if more people would like Medaka if the character were male. All the cries of "Unfair! Broken!" would be replaced with "Brilliant! What a chessmaster!"

Really? I think Medaka's reminiscent of those cold, invincible jerks that are often in Shojo manga, that inexplicably get the affections of the female protagonist.

[Wolfenstein]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

lol, okay, edited this as well. I just wanted to mention that yeah, when talking about Medaka's changes/character development after ch. 140 we need to separate out Medaka's character development in general, versus Medaka's relationship with Zenkichi. Furthermore, when talking about Medaka and Zenkichi's relationship, given that Zenkichi explicitly refrained from influencing Medaka in a way which would directly benefit his romantic chances with her, I think that Medaka's reciprocity is a pretty big change/development in itself.

Yeah, it's a change in Medaka, for sure.

Still, the execution of it prevents me from actually enjoying it, like most things related to Medaka.

To me, it feels very much like a "tell" instead of a "show". Like a "more" instead of "less". "Over the top" instead of "subtle". I mean, she's literally telling him she loves him, but her other interactions are unchanged from the time she was completely platonically related to him. Makes it hard to feel for their relationship when she calls the guy she loves simple-minded when he worked his ass off to change that, ya know? Or by responding to him the same way as before.

Which...for Medaka is probably an accurate characterization, but that's just not something I find enjoyable.

Probably not making much sense, so sorry about that, Lol.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Spoiler:

I think it can essentially be said that the core basis of both Medaka and Zenkichi's characterization thus far can be said to be optimism and idealism. Zenkichi provided the seed for the optimism; Medaka's universe-twisting Main Character abilities are what pushed/forced that optimism/idealism into (manga) reality. Furthermore, it is because Medaka forced/pushed idealism into reality that Zenkichi has been able to live while continually believing in such extreme optimism.

The point is that from a realistic/natural perspective, i.e. a perspective which would be meaningful for readers of the story, there are times when optimism/idealism is a good thing and there are times when it is misguided/mistaken/bad. Medaka and Zenkichi represent such an extreme form of optimism that there are tons of obvious times when it is delusional/bad.

Here are a couple of delusional ideas that Medaka/Zenkichi have believed in:
- that you can be born to help others/make others happy
- that one person can always be right
- that humans are fundamentally good
- that hard work/determination can accomplish anything
- that there are no such things as geniuses
- that the things important to you will still be there tomorrow
- that a person could always find a way to be next to you
- that you can love a person through death into a next life

This is just a number of notable examples. You will note that a number of the earlier ones were things Medaka or Zenkichi believed at the start of the series and which have since been debunked and discarded by their character growth over the course of the story. What I am really talking about is Medaka and Zenkichi's general attitude, which is a general inclination towards believing in idealistic delusions like that.

In the first paragraph I already outlined how Medaka and Zenkichi's characteristics reinforce each other in a way that causes them to maintain their delusions: Medaka falls in love with Zenkichi's optimistic idealism, and then Zenkichi falls in love with Medaka's twisted ability to force those idealistic things into reality (though he doesn't see it that way, of course :P). If that feedback loop and relationship becomes completely entrenched in their personalities, then neither Zenkichi nor Medaka will ever truly understand what it means to be human, to have empathy for others, or to face reality, because they will never be able to understand the negative side of humanity/reality.

Thus what I meant when I said their romance would crush any further meaningful character development.

..
I will note that I am not saying that idealism/optimism is (necessarily) bad, not at all. There are tons of times when it is a good thing; for example, when Medaka was able to 'save' Kumagawa. In fact, there is one central belief in Zenkichi and Medaka's optimism which I didn't include up there, because it is something which I also absolutely believe in and don't expect to ever see made 'delusional' in the manga: namely that "Life is a plus", which I think is a core theme of the story. However, the fundamental fact stands that optimism/idealism needs to be modulated by reality--an honest look at the world as it truly is. That realistic outlook is what Zenkichi and Medaka lack, and which they will never be able to obtain by being together. More importantly, that realistic outlook is precisely what is needed for both Medaka and Zenkichi to grow and become more well-liked/relatable as characters, and even represents the greatest part of their existing character growth already.

I spoil'd it as to not stretch the page. Hope you don't mind.

And, yeah. That's an interesting view, to say the least. It's certainly how a normal person could view such fantastic optimism, as too unrealistic. And if taken to heart for long, a detachment from the normal human condition. Which would be a regression for Medaka(though, honestly, I would't feel much of a difference) and a murder of Zen's character.

But, Nishio dosen't seem to think this is such a bad thing, to be honest. Some people do enjoy reading and marveling at the whimsy of the impossible and such(cause it's a manga and that can't happen in life) and that seems to be the path Nishio is taking with Zen/Medaka. I mean, Christ. They're marrying pretty soon. Dosen't seem to be any tangent to change to.

Not that I like this engagement, though, as I'm sure you know.

Originally Posted by 17Sevens

Heh, I wonder if more people would like Medaka if the character were male. All the cries of "Unfair! Broken!" would be replaced with "Brilliant! What a chessmaster!"

Honestly, I'd probably hate the character even more.

I mean, if it was a male, there wouldn't even be any tits or ass to keep me occupied while her boringness takes up the screen.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by Wolfenstein

I mean, if it was a male, there wouldn't even be any tits or ass to keep me occupied while her boringness takes up the screen.

O-ho, so you finally admit

[IronicTruth]

Have to say about a rule 63 Medaka and Zen

A pixiv artist has done a lot of work on it, buts its not really 'pure' fandom, its just a funny reactions of gender switch.

The pixiv artist is called 水森好美. Just see some of the work and you will laugh.

[kenjtr]

I think medaka and zenkichis relationship recebles edese and tatsumi in akame ga kiru , edese is a dominant women who totally lacks emphaty and she wants to love a person who has potencial and brilliant smile , also edeses lack of emphaty makes her the perfect killer . Medaka is just like that she lacks emphaty and probably never be able to feel like others , medeka also seems a sadist ( if you look at her past actions she tortures people more then helping them and she seems to enjoy it , even medakas mother was like that ) . Medaka is a sadist , emotinless darkness but thats why she wants zenkichi who has emphaty , light and masocism ( for gods sake i never saw a character masocist as zenkichi lol ) . I dont think medaka will ever change she will always be a sadistic who lacks emphaty and rule people since she needs to be dominant . I think its zenkichi that needs to be changed he needs to go in his own way and stop being a masocist , selfless idiot , in the first place zenkichi didnt have to suffer that much since no matter what medaka will love him since he is like the perfect mate for her .

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by kenjtr

I think medaka and zenkichis relationship recebles edese and tatsumi in akame ga kiru , edese is a dominant women who totally likes emphaty and she wants to love a person who has potencial and brilliant smile , also edeses lack of emphaty makes her the perfect killer . Medaka is just like that she lacks emphaty and probably never be able to feel like others , medeka also seems a sadist ( if you look at her past actions she tortures people more then helping them and she seems to enjoy it , even medakas mother was like that ) . Medaka is a sadist , emotinless darkness but thats why she wants zenkichi who has emphaty , light and masocism ( for gods sake i never saw a character masocist as zenkichi lol ) . I dont think medaka will ever change she will always be a sadistic who likes emphaty and rule people since she needs to be dominant . I think its zenkichi that needs to be changed he needs to go in his own way and stop being a masocist , selfless idiot , in the first place zenkichi didnt have to suffer that much since no matter what medaka will love him since he is like the perfect mate for her .

I swear...if I could draw I'd be using this idea as we speak...

[DawnEmperor]

Hey, what if it turns out that Zenkichi's mom married one of the Kurokami family(or one of the Tsurubami families)? And then Medaka turns out to be Zenkichi's cousin?(I mean, it's not like marrying your cousin is that taboo in Japan right)!!!!11111

[kenjtr]

Originally Posted by DawnEmperor

Hey, what if it turns out that Zenkichi's mom married one of the Kurokami family(or one of the Tsurubami families)? And then Medaka turns out to be Zenkichi's cousin?(I mean, it's not like marrying your cousin is that taboo in Japan right)!!!!11111

Marrying cousins is acceptable everywhere in the world its nothing weird .

[Guernsey]

Originally Posted by DawnEmperor

Hey, what if it turns out that Zenkichi's mom married one of the Kurokami family(or one of the Tsurubami families)? And then Medaka turns out to be Zenkichi's cousin?(I mean, it's not like marrying your cousin is that taboo in Japan right)!!!!11111

Is that a joke?

Originally Posted by kenjtr

I think medaka and zenkichis relationship recebles edese and tatsumi in akame ga kiru , edese is a dominant women who totally lacks emphaty and she wants to love a person who has potencial and brilliant smile , also edeses lack of emphaty makes her the perfect killer . Medaka is just like that she lacks emphaty and probably never be able to feel like others , medeka also seems a sadist ( if you look at her past actions she tortures people more then helping them and she seems to enjoy it , even medakas mother was like that ) . Medaka is a sadist , emotinless darkness but thats why she wants zenkichi who has emphaty , light and masocism ( for gods sake i never saw a character masocist as zenkichi lol ) . I dont think medaka will ever change she will always be a sadistic who lacks emphaty and rule people since she needs to be dominant . I think its zenkichi that needs to be changed he needs to go in his own way and stop being a masocist , selfless idiot , in the first place zenkichi didnt have to suffer that much since no matter what medaka will love him since he is like the perfect mate for her .

I agree on the sadism and sociopathy, Medaka was never normal by most standards but she is no less abnormal than any shonen hero.

[Kurosu]

Originally Posted by DawnEmperor

Hey, what if it turns out that Zenkichi's mom married one of the Kurokami family(or one of the Tsurubami families)? And then Medaka turns out to be Zenkichi's cousin?(I mean, it's not like marrying your cousin is that taboo in Japan right)!!!!11111

On the contrary, even marrying an in-law seems to be against their marriage laws, let alone blood related.

Most people related by blood, by adoption or through other marriages cannot get married in Japan.

via http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-7114a.html

[kenjtr]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

I agree on the sadism and sociopathy, Medaka was never normal by most standards but she is no less abnormal than any shonen hero.

If medaka became a villain she would be no different from "edese in akame ga kill " so i dont see her as a shounen hero at best medaka is misguided overlord But in this manga medaka isnt the weird one its zenkichi , we know lots of things about medaka but zenkichi is still a black box and even his mother seems really has shaddy plans for him . Medaka seems to have a monster inside and she can control it because she is a sadist dominant sociopath , this itself recembles edese controling ice teigu since they are both cant be controled by anyone . Even with all that superiority zenkichi can control medaka so i sometimes woder if zenkichi has much more sinister thing inside him .

[DawnEmperor]

Yes, I was being facetious with that. I was just exaggerating how much influence the Kurokami/Tsurubami family has, and how many connections with the plot they're making.

[mark1246]

does any one know the summary of the light novel regarding with Kumagawa? or an translated version anywhere?

[kantou]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

The suitors as nurses. Plus, it's the two whose abilities we haven't seen yet.

we will be able to see their ability is cool.

[Forbin]

Originally Posted by Kurosu

On the contrary, even marrying an in-law seems to be against their marriage laws, let alone blood related.


via http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-7114a.html

I think that means you can't marry your Brother, not your cousin.
AKA KissxSis is OUT

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by kenjtr

If medaka became a villain she would be no different from "edese in akame ga kill " so i dont see her as a shounen hero at best medaka is misguided overlord But in this manga medaka isnt the weird one its zenkichi , we know lots of things about medaka but zenkichi is still a black box and even his mother seems really has shaddy plans for him . Medaka seems to have a monster inside and she can control it because she is a sadist dominant sociopath , this itself recembles edese controling ice teigu since they are both cant be controled by anyone . Even with all that superiority zenkichi can control medaka so i sometimes woder if zenkichi has much more sinister thing inside him .

I thought that villainous Medaka has already been parodied and commented upon?

It was done during the end of the flask Plan arc, and done again during the Election/Not Equal Arc.

[kenjtr]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I thought that villainous Medaka has already been parodied and commented upon?
It was done during the end of the flask Plan arc, and done again during the Election/Not Equal Arc.

What i want to say is that medaka isnt meant to be the good guy , she was born to be the overlordand have all qualities to be that . Medaka loves torturing people and doesnt have any emphaty at all , she also sees humans as pets that serve under her command or inferior creatures . If it wasnt zenkichis positive comment medaka would be the most terrifying existence in the world , just look at how medaka collected bad guys under her that alone shows her quality as an overlord .

Now lets come to kurokami group , do you guys think kurokamni group is a good organization that wants to better the world ? Let me also remind you these guy do anything for their good like forcefully marrying medaka to a person who wins a deathmatch . Medaka now is leader of kurokami group which makes the overlord and it seems only reason she refused it was because they forced her into it .

I dont know how you guys see it but medaka is gradually becoming worst possible scenario and i think in the end she may be killed by zenkichi , medaka really recemble griifith in berserk .

[Kurosu]

Originally Posted by Forbin

I think that means you can't marry your Brother, not your cousin.
AKA KissxSis is OUT

It seems kinda vague.