The Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya [Spoilers Aplenty]

[Cat Megex]

Originally Posted by Red225

I'm still a bit iffy on having Kyonko keep pics of either Asahina or Nagato - is that just me being gender-biased? Guys keeping pics of girls getting changed, sounds reasonable if slightly pervy, but girls keeping pics of guys getting changed and so on? Doesn't sound the same to me...

Ever heard of fangirls? XD


Anyway, it doesn't necessarily have to be pictures of Asahina getting changed, per se...it could simply be images of him in the different outfits, and to fit in the whole mole thing, have one of the outfits be shirtless or something (and I do believe that Chippendale outfits are generally shirtless, so that'd work for that).

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

One thing. It's never specifically stated that the rest of the Esper Squad are boys. I think I read something that implied they were a pretty diverse assortment of people.

There are only around 10 "true espers", two of which we actually know about: Koizumi and (presumably) Sonou Mori.

There are, however, a larger amount of "half-espers", people with similar powers, like Nakamura and Kyoko Tachibana, and a hell of a lot of ordinary humans working for The Organization.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I just feel that going into a situation this extreme might force us into a box, where realistically Haruki couldn't be convinced to preserve the old world no matter what Kyonko does.

I disagree. Also, Haruki, unlike Haruhi, is not a tsundere and thus is not going to bottle up his feelings like that.

Originally Posted by Cat Megex

Anyway, it doesn't necessarily have to be pictures of Asahina getting changed, per se...it could simply be images of him in the different outfits, and to fit in the whole mole thing, have one of the outfits be shirtless or something (and I do believe that Chippendale outfits are generally shirtless, so that'd work for that).

Haruki still had the blouse slightly unbuttoned, so Kyon-chan can see down the maid outfit and see the mole.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

There are only around 10 "true espers", two of which we actually know about: Koizumi and (presumably) Sonou Mori.

Where exactly are we given an indication that Mori is one of the Espers?

And yes. The actual full Espers attached to Haruhi are very few in number.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I disagree. Also, Haruki, unlike Haruhi, is not a tsundere and thus is not going to bottle up his feelings like that.

I guess so. It just seems that this is describing Haruki as having a much larger mad on then Haruhi originally had.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Where exactly are we given an indication that Mori is one of the Espers?

Her behavior in Volume 7 contrasted with her behavior in Lone Island Syndrome, but also the fact that she is given a full name, like most of the characters with special powers. (The brothers are given full names to differentiate between them, while ordinary humans in the series are simply given surnames, titles, or nicknames.)

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Her behavior in Volume 7 contrasted with her behavior in Lone Island Syndrome, but also the fact that she is given a full name, like most of the characters with special powers. (The brothers are given full names to differentiate between them, while ordinary humans in the series are simply given surnames, titles, or nicknames.)

I wasn't aware that basic acting ability was a trait of an Esper. She is gonna act differently when she's trying to appease a god like entity, and trying to intimidate her groups rivals.

And frankly, it doesn't make sense to have one of your Espers who should be kept on anti Avatar assigned as security. Itsuki has been detached to liaison with the SOS brigade because he's the weakest one of them, and they probably thought an Esper would be better able to convince Kyon of the situation.

Theres not allot of reason why you'd have someone as valuable as an Esper in charge of security. That's like assigning an Elite super sniper a job as quartermaster. Mori is probably is a person with... Talents the Organization finds useful.

I would seriously worry about Kyouko and sneering bastard if Kyon hadn't been with Mori when she caught them. As Kyouko said, she seems to be a very scary person.

[walviss]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

Hello, by the way. I forgot to say it earlier. Welcome to the discussion, even. ^^

Thank you, and to anyone else who said welcome.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

One thing. It's never specifically stated that the rest of the Esper Squad are boys. I think I read something that implied they were a pretty diverse assortment of people.

The translation I have, there's a point where Kyon says, "Self-proclaimed squad of esper boys". I don't know if that's accurate. And it's probably just Kyon extrapolating since Koizumi is the only one he knows. In any event, I'm just considering the "espers" themselves as magical girls. The 'Organization' as a whole (which I would call the Cabal if it was a magical organization, to maintain an ominous yet magical nature) would still be composed of a lot of diverse people, and would probably not look or act any different than the esper Organization. But yeah, even I'm not a huge booster for that particular concept, I see it as a cosmetic thing, and I just think it's funny.

Haruhi was never that confrontational with Kyon regarding his attention to the opposite sex.
...
Also. I think Kyonko's response is to emo.
...
I just feel that going into a situation this extreme might force us into a box, where realistically Haruki couldn't be convinced to preserve the old world no matter what Kyonko does.

I think Haruki and Haruhi are two completely different beasts, and that Haruki is aggressive enough to lash out like that when he's hurt. In the spirit of 'guts' he's going to take an enemy headon, and in that moment he sees Kyon as betraying him (even if he doesn't really understand why he feels that way) so he loses it.

I agree, Kyon's response might be too emo. But really, I see both Haruki and Kyon in this case as going on instinct. She's not so much reacting to Haruki saying those things, as much as she's reacting to the words themselves. I mean, reading between the lines, he's almost calling her a slut. I agree that she could show some more backbone, dress him down a little or something before storming out. But I really wasn't suggesting that she runs out just because Haruki said something bad about her. It's just because the accusation itself is hurtful, no matter who it comes from.

Whereas later that night (when the closed space incident happens) they have both calmed down a lot and are feeling a lot more rational about it. Haruki can ask "Was Nagato really just helping you up?" and Kyon says "Of course, you idiot," and that's that as far as they're both concerned. Haruki's goal, in my mind, is to challenge the world to stop supporting mediocrity, and if Kyon prefers an apparently passive guy like Nagato, that's a blow to him. When she tells him she does support him in being strong and assertive, it makes him believe the current world is worth preserving (if only so he can make everything metal...er, GAR).

Originally Posted by Red225

I'm still a bit iffy on having Kyonko keep pics of either Asahina or Nagato - is that just me being gender-biased? Guys keeping pics of girls getting changed, sounds reasonable if slightly pervy, but girls keeping pics of guys getting changed and so on? Doesn't sound the same to me...

Well, from what I've read of this version, she keeps the Mitsuru pics just because he's cute, it's not a perv thing. I'm proposing she keeps the pics of Nagato and herself to remember the time Nagato saved her life, again not for a perv reason, it's sentimental.

[Roger Rambo]

I guess that makes sense.

[siber222000]

first time visiting this thread and OMG kyonko is SO cute o_O... who invented this? lol

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by walviss

The translation I have, there's a point where Kyon says, "Self-proclaimed squad of esper boys". I don't know if that's accurate.

The original is "shonen esper sentai", at least in the anime.

So yes, "squad of esper boys" is accurate.

(As an aside, "Shonen Esper Sentai" should be the name of a TV show.)

Originally Posted by walviss

Well, from what I've read of this version, she keeps the Mitsuru pics just because he's cute, it's not a perv thing. I'm proposing she keeps the pics of Nagato and herself to remember the time Nagato saved her life, again not for a perv reason, it's sentimental.

Yes. Exactly.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I wasn't aware that basic acting ability was a trait of an Esper. She is gonna act differently when she's trying to appease a god like entity, and trying to intimidate her groups rivals.

And frankly, it doesn't make sense to have one of your Espers who should be kept on anti Avatar assigned as security. Itsuki has been detached to liaison with the SOS brigade because he's the weakest one of them, and they probably thought an Esper would be better able to convince Kyon of the situation.

Theres not allot of reason why you'd have someone as valuable as an Esper in charge of security. That's like assigning an Elite super sniper a job as quartermaster. Mori is probably is a person with... Talents the Organization finds useful.

I would seriously worry about Kyouko and sneering bastard if Kyon hadn't been with Mori when she caught them. As Kyouko said, she seems to be a very scary person.

It's more the naming convention the author tends to use, that convinces me, really.

But in any case a) Koizumi isn't the weakest esper, I'd assume they're all about the same level of power. He's just the lowest ranked, probably due to his age. b) Espers have no power outside closed space other than that empathic connection to Haruhi and c) closed space doesn't show up that often.

Mori being on security is probably her doing her other job besides killing giants, much like how Koizumi's other job is acting like a secretive, all-knowing (albiet awesome) prick.

Originally Posted by siber222000

first time visiting this thread and OMG kyonko is SO cute o_O... who invented this? lol

A couple of Japanese Haruhiists with free time and photoshop, I believe.

[Roger Rambo]

I'm still unconvinced.

a:Alight.
b:Correct. So why bother using them in any location besides closed space?
c:I got the impression it was fairly common during and before volume 1. Sometime before Kyon met Saski again, Itsuki described the amount of closed space as being very small. I'd think they'd want to keep the Espers on standby in case of an emergency.

Then theres the problem is that in the Organization, is that an Esper is classified as an irreplaceable specialist. They can't afford to lose any of them in case of a particularly large closed space. In order for a high quality secret service agent to perform properly, he/she must be willing to give no regard to their lives when trying to defend their VIP.

Given that there are thousands of people in the world who can suicidally protect people, and there are only 10 persons who can enter closed space to fight the Avatars, It seems pretty simple as to who you'd assign to the possibly suicidal duty.

It's like using a detachment of Archers who've trained their entire lives to shot with deadly accuracy, to guard an outpost with foliage so thick they can't use their arrows, when you had an entire company of Swordsmen on hand.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I'm still unconvinced.

a:Alight.
b:Correct. So why bother using them in any location besides closed space?
c:I got the impression it was fairly common during and before volume 1. Sometime before Kyon met Saski again, Itsuki described the amount of closed space as being very small. I'd think they'd want to keep the Espers on standby in case of an emergency.

Then theres the problem is that in the Organization, is that an Esper is classified as an irreplaceable specialist. They can't afford to lose any of them in case of a particularly large closed space. In order for a high quality secret service agent to perform properly, he/she must be willing to give no regard to their lives when trying to defend their VIP.

Given that there are thousands of people in the world who can suicidally protect people, and there are only 10 persons who can enter closed space to fight the Avatars, It seems pretty simple as to who you'd assign to the possibly suicidal duty.

Kyon suspects Mori is very high up in The Organization. Maybe she volunteered for it?

Bah, why are we arguing about this again? This is pointless.

If we go by the usual naming convention, Mori is at least special, which might make her a half-esper with different abilities than Koizumi.

In any case, I concede the argument.

[Roger Rambo]

Absolutely agree on Mori being special. I'd think she'd qualify even without any paranormal abilities.

Kinda like how Batman can walk around the Justice league.

[ClockWorkAngel]

We're getting off topic; let's try to get to the main point shall we?

We can conclude that there are espers with power; and they work for the organization, anything else doesn't need to be expanded until we need to right?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Absolutely agree on Mori being special. I'd think she'd qualify even without any paranormal abilities.

Kinda like how Batman can walk around the Justice league.

That applies to Kyon too. He hangs around with a bunch of people with stupendous powers and is yet more competent than all of them put together.

Holy shit, Kyon is Batman!

Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel

We're getting off topic; let's try to get to the main point shall we?

We can conclude that there are espers with power; and they work for the organization, anything else doesn't need to be expanded until we need to right?

Oh, stop being a wet blanket. Besides, it's slow here and at least we're talking about the Haruhi series and not about Power Rangers or something.

But yeah, we do need to stay on topic more.

[Cat Megex]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Oh, stop being a wet blanket. Besides, it's slow here and at least we're talking about the Haruhi series and not about Power Rangers or something.

...Hmmm...so, Haruki/Haruhi would be Red, but what colors would the others be?

XD

[ClockWorkAngel]

Blue Yuuki, Pink Mikuru, who knows .

Blargss, yes there's only 2 part left of the translation for me to do :/ But not much really...

[shaoron]

if Itsuko = Magic girl

then let's go change that introduction of Haruki

BTW... is she gonna do a starlight breaker?
maybe in the movie to defeat Yuuki

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Also, I don't want her totally broken. It doesn't work for later volumes and the idea of her having some closure after seeing Asakura's empty apartment works well.

I was thinking short-term trauma.

[Discreet]

No trauma, no emo, no drama llama.

And uh, Kaisos if you're going to make Haruki angry instead of melancholic how is the Haruhi "origins" story going to go? Y'know the part where she does get all melancholic and talks about how disillusioned she had become with her life?

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by Discreet

No trauma, no emo, no drama llama.

Perhaps.

8000 GET!