AnimeSuki Forums

Renall · 2013-05-31, 18:22

Strange that progress is as slow as it is; the current runtime is nowhere near as bad as some of the longer parts. The first half is finished (albeit not fully edited), clocking in a little over two hours. This one I'll probably split into 2-3 videos to reduce viewer fatigue as that was apparently an issue last time. Anyway the length is probably partially distractions and partially just being pretty hard to get right. Questions are a lot easier than answers!

Contextless preview images from the first half:

Spoiler for SECRETS REVEALED! Except If You Haven't Read It Yet:

Drifloon · 2013-06-01, 04:09

It's funny how blond Beatrice's sprite actually looks strange now after seeing so much of Sarah.

Renall · 2013-06-08, 16:19

Redaction of the Golden Witch - Coffee Break

Tea parties? What are we, six years old? Less than that? The only brew that properly suits a sobering answer (or complements a good cigarette) is a strong cup of coffee. Join the witches for a warm drink and all the answers you can handle in one sitting.

The first part is here.
The second part is here.

The TRUE final Tea Party is coming... in a little while, anyway.

Thunder Book · 2013-06-08, 21:18

If Diego Armando doesn't have a cameo in the Coffee Break, I'm declaring Redaction to be a failure.

Renall · 2013-06-08, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Book

If Diego Armando doesn't have a cameo in the Coffee Break, I'm declaring Redaction to be a failure.

Well no, but there is a lawyer.

Titanguy654 · 2013-06-09, 20:17

I'm confused, how can Battler's alternative theory be valid? The letter caused at least one person to die, right? How would that apply to his theory? I guess you could say that writing the letter caused him to be shot by Eva, but Shannon outed the letter as being fake pretty early on. It didn't seem to have much consequence in the story's direction.

So unless I'm horribly confused, Sarah created a logic error by calling Battler's interpretation valid.

Thunder Book · 2013-06-09, 20:41

Under Battler's theory, you could argue that Shannon or Kanon has died!

Alternatively, the same set of events that lead to the creation the letter also lead to Kinzo dying, therefore one can say that the "letter" killed Kinzo if the "letter"'s definition also includes the events necessary for it to be created in the first place. Admittedly this one is a stretch...

Renall · 2013-06-09, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titanguy654

I'm confused, how can Battler's alternative theory be valid? The letter caused at least one person to die, right? How would that apply to his theory? I guess you could say that writing the letter caused him to be shot by Eva, but Shannon outed the letter as being fake pretty early on. It didn't seem to have much consequence in the story's direction.

So unless I'm horribly confused, Sarah created a logic error by calling Battler's interpretation valid.

Think of a longer causal chain.

Spoiler:

Golden Bug-Hunter · 2013-06-09, 23:21

Ah, answers.

Spoiler for Hot Coffee:

Well, 1986 was the harder part for me. The explanations there are most interesting in places where I feel like I was close but not quite there. For example, I had Battler pegged as an accomplice in the whole 'There's an heir named Lion' scheme, but not the primary actor behind it.

Still, I feel like there are holes in both Sarah's nihilistic interpretation, and Battler's optimistic take. (I know, both are technically Battler's theories, but Sarah suggested the first one was her intention as the author, right?)

In Sarah's version, how did Shannon's corpse end up near the front of the house instead of by Kinzo's study, which would have been around the side? Where did the prepared letter in Shannon's hand come from since there are no typewriters on the island? Is ninja-Shannon running on roof-tops (until she slips off) officially part of that version of the story? Because that's kinda awesome. Also, who prepared a letter to slip under Shannon's hand, and why? That thing was too well prepared to be a 'dying message' like painting in blood on the wall. It seems to rule out the possibility that this was Sarah's actual intent. Also, how did Krauss come charging up the stairs into Kyrie after beating Rudolph to death... and end up being defenestrated and crawling away to die? Jujitsu? I thought that martial arts stuff was Eva's forte, lol.

In Battler's version, Why are George and Jessica randomly freaking out and being suspicious of Kannon and himself? Why does Maria run off? If they're in on the story, or if Nanjo is following them around with status updates for the conspirators (now there is a man I would not expect to be talented at stealth...), wouldn't someone have seen Battler go and activate the clock destruct device, thus being able to go "WAIT WAIT IT WAS ALL A TRICK YOU FOOL! DO NOT MAKE A TERRIBLE MISTAKE!"

Activating the bomb is pretty out there in either version of the story, to be honest. Of course, that is true in Prime as well. It is only sympathetic or redeemable in a scenario where you believe everyone in the mansion and guest house is either already dead, or guilty of something too terrible to forgive.

I wonder if there is another twist to the tale of 1986 coming, or maybe I misunderstood something? The old standby of Umineko is, when you are given two options, the correct answer is usually some 3rd take. But everything between Battler and Sarah's theories ends up looking like Black-Battler nonsense. I'm not sure where to look for another viable take on what happened.

By the way, Sarah says in red there are 1000s of killings in Beatrice's name in the future... I kinda hope she's talking about the cumulative sum of the forgeries. In my 'copycat serial killer' hypothesizing, I could see dozens, maybe even a hundred at an upper end, but 1000s? Only if you count forgeries. Gotta be. Murder rates just aren't high enough for something like that in any reasonable time span for a child of the 80s to live to see.

AuraTwilight · 2013-06-09, 23:48

Spoiler for Response to GBH:

Renall · 2013-06-10, 08:12

A few things generally to keep in mind about 1986:

Spoiler:

2013-05-31, 18:22	Link #641
Renall Too Amnesiac For This Join Date: May 2009	Strange that progress is as slow as it is; the current runtime is nowhere near as bad as some of the longer parts. The first half is finished (albeit not fully edited), clocking in a little over two hours. This one I'll probably split into 2-3 videos to reduce viewer fatigue as that was apparently an issue last time. Anyway the length is probably partially distractions and partially just being pretty hard to get right. Questions are a lot easier than answers! Contextless preview images from the first half: Spoiler for SECRETS REVEALED! Except If You Haven't Read It Yet: __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. I submit that the murder was blamed on a witch. Just as we have done, in seriousness or fantasy. I submit that the murderer was a human. As of course must be true. And I submit finally that this murder was covered up, and that the culprit remains uncaught. This story is a redacted confession. PART 1 - PART 2 - PART 3 - PART 4 - PART 5 - PART 6 TEA PARTY - COFFEE BREAK - ???? (60%) Redaction TIPs: Andromalius Extras: Battler Solves The Logic Error

2013-06-08, 16:19	Link #643
Renall Too Amnesiac For This Join Date: May 2009	Redaction of the Golden Witch - Coffee Break Tea parties? What are we, six years old? Less than that? The only brew that properly suits a sobering answer (or complements a good cigarette) is a strong cup of coffee. Join the witches for a warm drink and all the answers you can handle in one sitting. The first part is here. The second part is here. The TRUE final Tea Party is coming... in a little while, anyway. __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. I submit that the murder was blamed on a witch. Just as we have done, in seriousness or fantasy. I submit that the murderer was a human. As of course must be true. And I submit finally that this murder was covered up, and that the culprit remains uncaught. This story is a redacted confession. PART 1 - PART 2 - PART 3 - PART 4 - PART 5 - PART 6 TEA PARTY - COFFEE BREAK - ???? (60%) Redaction TIPs: Andromalius Extras: Battler Solves The Logic Error

2013-06-09, 20:41	Link #647
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	Under Battler's theory, you could argue that Shannon or Kanon has died! Alternatively, the same set of events that lead to the creation the letter also lead to Kinzo dying, therefore one can say that the "letter" killed Kinzo if the "letter"'s definition also includes the events necessary for it to be created in the first place. Admittedly this one is a stretch... Last edited by Thunder Book; 2013-06-09 at 21:01.

2013-06-10, 08:12	Link #651
Renall Too Amnesiac For This Join Date: May 2009	A few things generally to keep in mind about 1986: Spoiler: The Forgery is discredited in its time, which means whatever interpretation people of the future had of it, they didn't much like it or thought it was "wrong." If your initial reaction to the story is the same, think about what both you and the future people may have been expecting versus what actually showed up. Walter argued all along that the Forgery had a parallel purpose and might not have been entirely about 1986 at all. What does our knowledge of the author suggest about why some of these things were put in the story? The author clearly cares more about why than how. She's not accepting the alternate solution as valid because it meshes perfectly with all the facts. She's accepting it because something in it is important to her. It means something to her just as it means something to Battler. Remember, her version of 1986 is a "what if" to begin with; she doesn't believe her interpretation is the truth of Rokkenjima. But she does believe something, and Battler is challenging that with what amounts to an elaborate troll bluff. Like he said, she could've immediately and permanently destroyed that solution if she wished to. Why did she choose instead to surrender? __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. I submit that the murder was blamed on a witch. Just as we have done, in seriousness or fantasy. I submit that the murderer was a human. As of course must be true. And I submit finally that this murder was covered up, and that the culprit remains uncaught. This story is a redacted confession. PART 1 - PART 2 - PART 3 - PART 4 - PART 5 - PART 6 TEA PARTY - COFFEE BREAK - ???? (60%) Redaction TIPs: Andromalius Extras: Battler Solves The Logic Error

2013-06-01, 04:09	Link #642
Drifloon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	It's funny how blond Beatrice's sprite actually looks strange now after seeing so much of Sarah.

2013-06-08, 21:18	Link #644
Thunder Book Endless Member Join Date: Oct 2009	If Diego Armando doesn't have a cameo in the Coffee Break, I'm declaring Redaction to be a failure.

2013-06-09, 20:17	Link #646
Titanguy654 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	I'm confused, how can Battler's alternative theory be valid? The letter caused at least one person to die, right? How would that apply to his theory? I guess you could say that writing the letter caused him to be shot by Eva, but Shannon outed the letter as being fake pretty early on. It didn't seem to have much consequence in the story's direction. So unless I'm horribly confused, Sarah created a logic error by calling Battler's interpretation valid.

2013-06-09, 23:21	Link #649
Golden Bug-Hunter Member Join Date: Feb 2011	Ah, answers. Spoiler for Hot Coffee: Well, 1986 was the harder part for me. The explanations there are most interesting in places where I feel like I was close but not quite there. For example, I had Battler pegged as an accomplice in the whole 'There's an heir named Lion' scheme, but not the primary actor behind it. Still, I feel like there are holes in both Sarah's nihilistic interpretation, and Battler's optimistic take. (I know, both are technically Battler's theories, but Sarah suggested the first one was her intention as the author, right?) In Sarah's version, how did Shannon's corpse end up near the front of the house instead of by Kinzo's study, which would have been around the side? Where did the prepared letter in Shannon's hand come from since there are no typewriters on the island? Is ninja-Shannon running on roof-tops (until she slips off) officially part of that version of the story? Because that's kinda awesome. Also, who prepared a letter to slip under Shannon's hand, and why? That thing was too well prepared to be a 'dying message' like painting in blood on the wall. It seems to rule out the possibility that this was Sarah's actual intent. Also, how did Krauss come charging up the stairs into Kyrie after beating Rudolph to death... and end up being defenestrated and crawling away to die? Jujitsu? I thought that martial arts stuff was Eva's forte, lol. In Battler's version, Why are George and Jessica randomly freaking out and being suspicious of Kannon and himself? Why does Maria run off? If they're in on the story, or if Nanjo is following them around with status updates for the conspirators (now there is a man I would not expect to be talented at stealth...), wouldn't someone have seen Battler go and activate the clock destruct device, thus being able to go "WAIT WAIT IT WAS ALL A TRICK YOU FOOL! DO NOT MAKE A TERRIBLE MISTAKE!" Activating the bomb is pretty out there in either version of the story, to be honest. Of course, that is true in Prime as well. It is only sympathetic or redeemable in a scenario where you believe everyone in the mansion and guest house is either already dead, or guilty of something too terrible to forgive. I wonder if there is another twist to the tale of 1986 coming, or maybe I misunderstood something? The old standby of Umineko is, when you are given two options, the correct answer is usually some 3rd take. But everything between Battler and Sarah's theories ends up looking like Black-Battler nonsense. I'm not sure where to look for another viable take on what happened. By the way, Sarah says in red there are 1000s of killings in Beatrice's name in the future... I kinda hope she's talking about the cumulative sum of the forgeries. In my 'copycat serial killer' hypothesizing, I could see dozens, maybe even a hundred at an upper end, but 1000s? Only if you count forgeries. Gotta be. Murder rates just aren't high enough for something like that in any reasonable time span for a child of the 80s to live to see.