True Tears - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[RevRayCool]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

I can understand the sympathy for Noe as she has been innocent so far but Jun played a big part in creating this mess. He asked Shin to go out with Noe at the end of episode 4 but Shin did'nt agree until episode 7 after Jun threatened to stop going out with Hiromi. This was after what happened in episode 6 where Jun found out that Hiromi liked Shin and probably guessed that Shin liked Hiromi as well but he did'nt care about that. He did offer to do anything as long as Hiromi would'nt do anything to break up the two relationships and Hiromi did offer to repay him for the bike. Wait until Noe finds out how her brother Jun got Shin to go out with her. I really do sympathize for Noe but find it much harder to do the same for Jun.

Still, even though Jun sort of forced Shin into going out with Noe, it wouldn't have been possible if Shin and Hiromi weren't willing to go through with it. Shin tried getting Hiromi and Jun to get together while Hiromi never denied Jun's "advances" until episode 10. Likewise, I don't think Shin is cold enough to use Noe as a bargaining chip... he did convince himself, somewhat, that he liked Noe and that going out with her was the right thing to do at the time.

While Jun played the role of instigator, it was Shin's indecisiveness and Hiromi's emo-ness that got his plan rolling. I do agree that Jun got a bit of what he deserved (plan backfired), but I also think his plan wouldn't have worked at all if Shin and Hiromi weren't so annoyingly unsure of their own feelings. I kind of find the situation similar to a TA getting ragged on by a professor for stupid students not getting their class material. Sure, TA may be to blame for not being a good teacher, but blame the kids too for just being dumb, haha.

[Westlo]

Yeah but Hiromi was under the impression that Shin was her half brother at the time, if she wasn't she never would've treated Shin coldly the year she was living there and have lied to Shin about liking #4. Shin just fell into the "I like her and I want what's best for her" type of thinking and things went from there. If Shin's mother hadn't of lied to Hiromi this series would be about Shin x Hiromi going out for 13 episodes in school... lol...

[golthin]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

Still, even though Jun sort of forced Shin into going out with Noe, it wouldn't have been possible if Shin and Hiromi weren't willing to go through with it. Shin tried getting Hiromi and Jun to get together while Hiromi never denied Jun's "advances" until episode 10. Likewise, I don't think Shin is cold enough to use Noe as a bargaining chip... he did convince himself, somewhat, that he liked Noe and that going out with her was the right thing to do at the time.

While Jun played the role of instigator, it was Shin's indecisiveness and Hiromi's emo-ness that got his plan rolling. I do agree that Jun got a bit of what he deserved (plan backfired), but I also think his plan wouldn't have worked at all if Shin and Hiromi weren't so annoyingly unsure of their own feelings. I kind of find the situation similar to a TA getting ragged on by a professor for stupid students not getting their class material. Sure, TA may be to blame for not being a good teacher, but blame the kids too for just being dumb, haha.

people have short memories, are you guys forgetting another reason they went on with it. THEY thought they had the same father!

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

Still, even though Jun sort of forced Shin into going out with Noe, it wouldn't have been possible if Shin and Hiromi weren't willing to go through with it. Shin tried getting Hiromi and Jun to get together while Hiromi never denied Jun's "advances" until episode 10. Likewise, I don't think Shin is cold enough to use Noe as a bargaining chip... he did convince himself, somewhat, that he liked Noe and that going out with her was the right thing to do at the time.

While Jun played the role of instigator, it was Shin's indecisiveness and Hiromi's emo-ness that got his plan rolling. I do agree that Jun got a bit of what he deserved (plan backfired), but I also think his plan wouldn't have worked at all if Shin and Hiromi weren't so annoyingly unsure of their own feelings. I kind of find the situation similar to a TA getting ragged on by a professor for stupid students not getting their class material. Sure, TA may be to blame for not being a good teacher, but blame the kids too for just being dumb, haha.

To me it was a perfect storm where the lie originally told by Shin's mother created the situation where Shin and Hiromi were vulnerable to manipulation. It was fresh on Shin and Hiromi's minds in episodes 7 and 8. It affected their ability to act more decisively in regards to what they really want to do. Since episode 9 removed that obstacle the show is now focusing on how messy it is to extricate themselves from entanglements caused by misunderstandings.

[DanielSong39]

While this episode seemed to settle a lot of things, I'm still not sure whether the last couple of episodes will be spent resolving the mess between Hiromi and Shin. We just might see a shocker.

Canvas 2 is actually a good comparison since Shin seems to be lying to himself the whole time - thinking that childhood memories and emotions can substitute for action and progress. The latter two are usually more important when it comes to love and it’s about time Shin realizes it.

Shin has shown most of his development, both as a person and as an artist, due to Noe’s influence. I can easily see him making the switch once the truth hits him in the face.

[RevRayCool]

Originally Posted by golthin

people have short memories, are you guys forgetting another reason they went on with it. THEY thought they had the same father!

There was no reason why Shin or Hiromi couldn't have verified that fact with Shin's father. Hiromi knew Shin's mother didn't like her... why in the world did she simply chose to believe it instead of trying to find out if it were true? I just find it infuriating how all this messy drama was born from simple misunderstandings. TALK TO EACH OTHER, PEOPLE. Cripes...

[DanielSong39]

The horrible lack of communication only proves Shin and Hiromi's incompatibility...

Oh well, it's their choice and if they view things like jealousy, misunderstanding, and frustration as "love", why bother?

[apropervillain]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

There was no reason why Shin or Hiromi couldn't have verified that fact with Shin's father. Hiromi knew Shin's mother didn't like her... why in the world did she simply chose to believe it instead of trying to find out if it were true? I just find it infuriating how all this messy drama was born from simple misunderstandings. TALK TO EACH OTHER, PEOPLE. Cripes...

You do not understand Asian culture very much do you.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by apropervillain

You do not understand Asian culture very much do you.

Good line! People watch anime and sometime wonder why people do somethings. It is a complete different culture!

[RevRayCool]

Originally Posted by apropervillain

You do not understand Asian culture very much do you.

1) I'm not Japanese, but I am Asian.
2) I minor in Japanese
3) Using a culture argument for anime... no, just no.

[Rembr]

She's insecure?

[apropervillain]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

1) I'm not Japanese, but I am Asian.
2) I minor in Japanese
3) Using a culture argument for anime... no, just no.

Thanks for posting your credentials, too bad it does nothing for your argument. All you can say is no? I'm assuming you're Asian and grew up in America, which is completely different from growing up in your home country. And why not bring up culture? I'm pretty sure there are culture specific themes in True Tears, such as the dance that Shinichiro has to perform, the taking off of shoes indoors, and the such. There is definately a cultural aspect to anime, so please don't just ignore it and downplay it.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

1) I'm not Japanese, but I am Asian.
2) I minor in Japanese
3) Using a culture argument for anime... no, just no.

You know, we are talking about highschool students here, if someone told me that the woman i been dating for a while or i have liked for a while was a long lost close reletive, I will go into denial. Shin eventually confronted his father about it, it just took him sometime.

[RevRayCool]

Originally Posted by apropervillain

Thanks for posting your credentials, too bad it does nothing for your argument. All you can say is no? I'm assuming you're Asian and grew up in America, which is completely different from growing up in your home country. And why not bring up culture? I'm pretty sure there are culture specific themes in True Tears, such as the dance that Shinichiro has to perform, the taking off of shoes indoors, and the such. There is definately a cultural aspect to anime, so please don't just ignore it and downplay it.

And culture doesn't justify characters being idiots in works of fiction. Cultural differences aside, Hiromi had no reason to believe her step mother just like that. And if you expect me to believe that her acting like a prissy emo princess with Shin has some sort of cultural basis, please enlighten me.

[DanielSong39]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

And culture doesn't justify characters being idiots in works of fiction. Cultural differences aside, Hiromi had no reason to believe her step mother just like that. And if you expect me to believe that her acting like a prissy emo princess with Shin has some sort of cultural basis, please enlighten me.

Ah, I see you haven't watched enough Asian dramas. Watch a few and you'll see that these kind of things are commonplace in that medium...

[golthin]

Originally Posted by DanielSong39

Ah, I see you haven't watched enough Asian dramas. Watch a few and you'll see that these kind of things are commonplace in that medium...

hehehe! Good one!

[zAKai]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

And culture doesn't justify characters being idiots in works of fiction. Cultural differences aside, Hiromi had no reason to believe her step mother just like that. And if you expect me to believe that her acting like a prissy emo princess with Shin has some sort of cultural basis, please enlighten me.

I think the point he's trying to make (beyond the fact that you're trying to use your Asian ethnic background and your minor in Japanese to establish your credibility, which is a no-no in itself on the Interweb, haha) is that one cannot deny that an anime has cultural influences from the country of origin.

Despite bad character portrayals and development (which are a universal constant in all works of fiction, literature or media, English, Japanese or otherwise), the anime (from Japan) has to be based on some aspect of Japanese culture.

However, this is _definitely_ not to say that it's permissible to use anime or media as a microcosm for the sole portrayal of any culture, people, or society to that effect. You just can't say anything is truly representative of so-and-so's culture/life... not even a textbook on the subject.

I just think that big generalizations will get people into trouble on online discussions, so (to avoid the possible flame war and get back on topic)... maybe it's part of Asian culture to lack communication, maybe it's not. However, we can definitely be sure to say that there are many families, Asian or not, that may lack an open-channel of dialogue (and the Nakagami family sure lacks one, big time).

[apropervillain]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

And culture doesn't justify characters being idiots in works of fiction. Cultural differences aside, Hiromi had no reason to believe her step mother just like that. And if you expect me to believe that her acting like a prissy emo princess with Shin has some sort of cultural basis, please enlighten me.

Culture plays a big part in personality. Since when is it okay to question your parents? Since when is it okay to disrespect them? Aren't Asian girls conservative? In America, we see people disrespecting their parents all the time, but do you see that in alot of Asian countries? Do Americans have the same concept of family as Asians do?

Lol and since I'm Filipino there is always the possibility of someone I meet randomly being related to me. It has happened on one or more occasions.

And please don't make me delve into adolescence.

Putting this argument to the side, I really did enjoy this episode. I felt that if all the problems concerning Noe, Jun, Aiko, and everyone were resolved and the festival took place already before this episode, the bicycle scene and the running and all that stuff would have been a pretty good ending to the series.

[jaisrh]

Originally Posted by RevRayCool

And culture doesn't justify characters being idiots in works of fiction. Cultural differences aside, Hiromi had no reason to believe her step mother just like that. And if you expect me to believe that her acting like a prissy emo princess with Shin has some sort of cultural basis, please enlighten me.

A lot of viewers seem to have believed Shin's mother. Hiromi knew that Shin's mother hated her and since she could'nt come up with a rational reason why she would lie it makes sense that she would believe to some extent that a possible affair between Shin's father and Hiromi's mother was the cause of the hate.

[vio5555]

I really have to wonder whether some of you are watching the same show as the rest of us.

Its been abundantly clear that even if Hiromi may have had some small thing for Jun at some point in the show or past that it was nowhere near what she's felt for Shin for all these years (there are huge differences between not dislike, like, and love). In my reading of the scene where she claims she likes No.4, I see it as her just saying something acceptable as an answer to the question since she doesn't dislike No.4 and it would be the most acceptable response. The furthest her feelings seem to go is maybe at most a mini-crush at some point in time but even that seems tenuous.

Shin is the love of her life, just as he is the love of Noe's life and the love of Ai's life (to this point anyways from all indications in the anime).

Obviously he has to end up with one of these girls. The whole Jun/Hiromi thing has been all smoke and mirrors for 10 episodes now; until we have some indication that there's something more real, its just idle speculation.