AnimeSuki Forums

Wild Goose · 2013-04-16, 01:47

To an extent, part of the reason RPGs aren't so hot is because there's much less time to invest in them.

When I first started getting back into RPG gaming with my PSP in 2008 and my PS2 in 2009 (yes, yes, extremely late to the party, and yes, I did grow up in a goddamned jungle in the literal geographic middle of nowhere), I was able to invest tons of time into RPGs and Ace Combat and the like. Now?

Now I don't play many RPGs anymore because I don't have the time. I've played close to over two hundred hours of Mass Effect 3, but that's pretty easy to do because it's essentially a shooter and I play in increments of 45 minutes or so a day. I can't really do that with RPGs, especially when there are no handy save points.

So I'm on a limited amount of time and I want to be entertained. I'll fire up an entertaining shooter - Battlefield 3 is my current guilty pleasure - and be entertained quickly and faster than an RPG.

...I actually use PSP RPGs to help me relax and enter the fugue state that preceeds sleep, lol.

Kimidori · 2013-04-16, 01:58

I'm still playing GBA game.

synaesthetic · 2013-04-16, 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Well, that is true, and I'm not one to begrudge something immersive like Skyrim. But some of these 'action' RPGs are just woeful. I'd provide some examples but all I can think of is DA2 which isn't really an action RPG (but still a lazily put together game).

I wouldn't call DA2's combat "actiony." It's basically Ye Olde Standarde MMO Tab-Target Combat System, ported lazily into a single-player game.

Yeah, I like DA2, but not for its combat, which is only marginally entertaining at best. I like DA2 for the characters and the themes.

Sides · 2013-04-16, 02:14

Pretty sure Crytek doesn't publish games, not even their own titles. So, of course they would say something like this, considering that they need publisher partners and a way to promote their engine to other developers.

Irenicus · 2013-04-16, 02:18

Syn, you have no right to judge PS:T as subpar when you *like* DA2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Well, that is true, and I'm not one to begrudge something immersive like Skyrim. But some of these 'action' RPGs are just woeful. I'd provide some examples but all I can think of is DA2 which isn't really an action RPG (but still a lazily put together game).

The Fable series? Kingdom of Amalur? The Gothic series since 3? Older, but the Dungeon Siege series maybe?

They are often beautiful worlds; some of their game mechanics are really quite fun, far more advanced than AD&D. I haven't found any of these "stories" to be in any way deserving of the term.

Amalur has the special honor of being *just* that kind of game that showcases the problem. Sells quite a lot; judged a massive failure and deep in the red (costs taxpayers money!). Le what.

///

That said, I'm not worried. AAA games are great when developers actually pay attention to content, so I'll miss them dearly if a crash happens -- Skyrim isn't going to get made by a kickstarter project -- but the indie boom will outlive a PC/console crash, cushioned by lower system requirements (older PCs are NOT going away) and tablet/phone accessibility; and Steam and Gamersgate and other digital platforms will keep on selling them and exposing them to the mainstream PC gamers.

And if Electronic Arts doesn't survive a fall, or a bunch of gaming "journalists" and their cries of "entitlements" are put out of business, I...don't care?

Jazzrat · 2013-04-16, 03:45

Gonna play the devil's advocate here (seems like i do a lot of times these days). You need developers like crysis to push the what the current hardware can do no matter what kind of artstyle the game possess be it ultra realism 3D games like Crysis or stylized 2D games like Odin Sphere. Crytek are one of the forerunners in setting up the benchmark of what modern hardware can do for the games that pursue the ultra realism style.

Just because the mass consumers prefer games like COD doesn't mean there's no room for other genre like rpg/rts/simulation/etc. Just look at Minecraft, shitty graphics but loads of people enjoy it. There should be a market for all kinds of games and thanks to indies, Kickstarters and most importantly, digital download stores like Steam, Gamersgate & etc, we are seeing previously ignored niche games getting made and finding it's audience. If most people enjoys COD, who are we to tell em not to?

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2013-04-16, 05:19

Thing is, they push that envelope to make the prettiest chest high walls they can, but complain when they "fail" to sell anything. Failure being completely relative of course.

SaintessHeart · 2013-04-16, 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

Well, that is true, and I'm not one to begrudge something immersive like Skyrim. But some of these 'action' RPGs are just woeful. I'd provide some examples but all I can think of is DA2 which isn't really an action RPG (but still a lazily put together game).

One thing : Skyrim IS boring. It doesn't give me the feel Oblivion gave.

That being said, I find myself tiring out of Western RPGs that I wish it was the days of those with interesting but socially unacceptable storylines like Megami Tensei. I redefined FF as "Final Fantashit" and Biohazard/Resident Evil as "Buttonhazard", the latter of which I still play because I want to see Carlos Olivera and Billy Coen again.

Unlike MGS which actually made a great transition into action RPG with MGS:R (minus the retards giving Sunny boobs; the story is still ridiculously corny), Resident Evil made a mess of it by remaking RE4 (the original build is beautifully scary) into an action game, then adding another nail to the coffin by turning Sherry into a bishoujo. The graphics have improved, and I must say the burning streets of a pseudo-HongKong are pretty lifelike in 6, but the scary feel of the game isn't there anymore.

The next thing I hope is that Atlus doesn't screw up Persona 5 with great graphics but crap gameplay; though what I am asking for is a reboot of the original Megami Tensei.

sa547 · 2013-04-16, 05:55

Skyrim is boring when it's vanilla -- that's why we mod it. Morrowind and Oblivion are still around thanks to mods.

But then it depends on the modder who wants his/her game look like: ultrarealistic or fully-functional? I'll leave the ultrarealism to those who can afford the hardware.

EDIT: I will want a game that has substance and character within, regardless of whether it's 8-bit or uses the latest video card.

Waven · 2013-04-16, 06:12

People need to stop listening to Yerli when he makes comments like that, he frequently generalises the decisions and steps his company makes to be the current or upcoming standard for the whole industry. Ofc as the CEO of Crytek he is going elevate the significance of graphic fidelity - they're mostly selling their engine and less their games.

Wild Goose · 2013-04-16, 07:13

Well, at least one thing's for sure; the visual novel/eroge market is ridiculously future proof

there's not been much increase in hardware specs for eroge.

Tempester · 2013-04-16, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Well, at least one thing's for sure; the visual novel/eroge market is ridiculously future proof

there's not been much increase in hardware specs for eroge.

The Japanese PC market (which is mostly VNs or adventure) seems to operate on a completely different plane of existence from the Japanese console market.

Flying Dagger · 2013-04-16, 07:40

Game engine developer saying something like that: conflict of interest?
A lot of the best games with good review does not always contain the best graphics. Dark souls for example. WoW also has terrible graphics (esp since its an MMO where you want as many to play it as possible) but yet is prob still the most played game in the world.

IMO these days its not about how pretty you can draw things and make things look amazing. It is about how to make very efficient use of hardware.

Ofc, gameplay is usually what people remember a game by.

RRW · 2013-04-16, 07:44

is this the reason why Crysis 3 6/10?

demino_hellsin · 2013-04-16, 07:50

Graphics make the game for a lot of people. But that's for people who don't have time to invest in a game.

I for one never could understand the joys of playing EO. I was used to final fantasy which was pretty much the standard of RPG back in FF6-8 era. But EO was just... like a kick to the nuts. It woke me up from the handholding every other RPG was dragging me through and put me in the shoes of a nameless adventurer, hiring nameless people fighting in an epic dungeon where it seems hopelessly unending to prove myself as the person who conquered the impossible. Impossible because this first few hours are composed of seeing the game over screen unless you take your time to train. O.o

Graphics are all still 32-bit anime style portrait. Music is 8-bit. First person turn based combat. First person dungeon crawling and map drawing. The immersion is pretty deep, despite those hallmarks that take you out of it.

hyl · 2013-04-16, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempester

The Japanese PC market (which is mostly VNs or adventure) seems to operate on a completely different plane of existence from the Japanese console market.

That is right and to add something more about this subject:
The eroge market is heavily oversaturated (over 20 titles every month) and it even has become slightly stale because most of them play it "safe"

Kafriel · 2013-04-16, 08:27

Graphics have an acceptable minimum; veteran RPG gamers can make do with onimusha tactics, but the people who embarked on their gaming journey in the 00's would like to see at least...iunno, God of War graphics? Even so, there is no max graphic limit (unless your PC can't handle it, in which case it becomes a hardware issue), so gaming companies can always strive for something more advanced in this department.

Still, imo once your game has reached a decent level of graphics, it's time to shift the focus to gameplay, plot, sound, etc. (particularly sound, since its evolution is also limitless). Imagine FFXIII versus being on the brink of release and SQUEE postponing it because "the graphics need moar trimming!"

demino_hellsin · 2013-04-16, 08:37

Honestly I could live with the PS3 graphics for a another decade. I'm just wondering why people want to keep pushing it more.

GDB · 2013-04-16, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

Game engine developer saying something like that: conflict of interest?

No, merely marketing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Honestly I could live with the PS3 graphics for a another decade. I'm just wondering why people want to keep pushing it more.

Agreed. The only graphical boost after PS3 that I'd really care for is realistic virtual reality, ala Sword Art Online/Accel World. Until then, I'm content.

hyl · 2013-04-16, 08:45

The thing that i want to see upgraded are the (enemy) AI of games, not the graphics.

2013-04-16, 01:47	Link #21
Wild Goose Truth Martyr Author Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork. Age: 38	To an extent, part of the reason RPGs aren't so hot is because there's much less time to invest in them. When I first started getting back into RPG gaming with my PSP in 2008 and my PS2 in 2009 (yes, yes, extremely late to the party, and *yes, I did grow up in a goddamned jungle in the literal geographic middle of nowhere), I was able to invest tons of time into RPGs and Ace Combat and the like. Now? Now I don't play many RPGs anymore because I don't have the time. I've played close to over two hundred hours of Mass Effect 3, but that's pretty easy to do because it's essentially a shooter and I play in increments of 45 minutes or so a day. I can't really do that with RPGs, especially when there are no handy save points. So I'm on a limited amount of time and I want to be entertained. I'll fire up an entertaining shooter - Battlefield 3 is my current guilty pleasure - and be entertained quickly and faster than an RPG. ...I actually use PSP RPGs to help me relax and enter the fugue state that preceeds sleep, lol. __________________ One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine. I believe in miracles.* Order of Freelance Mages (Goose's Nanoha OC Project)

2013-04-16, 01:58	Link #22
Kimidori The Opened Ultimate Gate Join Date: Dec 2011 Age: 29	I'm still playing GBA game. __________________

2013-04-16, 03:45	Link #26
Jazzrat Bearly Legal Join Date: Jun 2004	Gonna play the devil's advocate here (seems like i do a lot of times these days). You need developers like crysis to push the what the current hardware can do no matter what kind of artstyle the game possess be it ultra realism 3D games like Crysis or stylized 2D games like Odin Sphere. Crytek are one of the forerunners in setting up the benchmark of what modern hardware can do for the games that pursue the ultra realism style. Just because the mass consumers prefer games like COD doesn't mean there's no room for other genre like rpg/rts/simulation/etc. Just look at Minecraft, shitty graphics but loads of people enjoy it. There should be a market for all kinds of games and thanks to indies, Kickstarters and most importantly, digital download stores like Steam, Gamersgate & etc, we are seeing previously ignored niche games getting made and finding it's audience. If most people enjoys COD, who are we to tell em not to? __________________

2013-04-16, 05:19	Link #27
Mr Hat and Clogs Did someone call a doctor Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 40	Thing is, they push that envelope to make the prettiest chest high walls they can, but complain when they "fail" to sell anything. Failure being completely relative of course. __________________

2013-04-16, 05:55	Link #29
sa547 Senior Member Author Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Philippines Age: 47	Skyrim is boring when it's vanilla -- that's why we mod it. Morrowind and Oblivion are still around thanks to mods. But then it depends on the modder who wants his/her game look like: ultrarealistic or fully-functional? I'll leave the ultrarealism to those who can afford the hardware. EDIT: I will want a game that has substance and character within, regardless of whether it's 8-bit or uses the latest video card. __________________ Last edited by sa547; 2013-04-16 at 06:51.

2013-04-16, 02:14	Link #24
Sides Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Edinburgh Age: 42	Pretty sure Crytek doesn't publish games, not even their own titles. So, of course they would say something like this, considering that they need publisher partners and a way to promote their engine to other developers.

2013-04-16, 06:12	Link #30
Waven Itadaki-nyaaa !! Join Date: Apr 2008	People need to stop listening to Yerli when he makes comments like that, he frequently generalises the decisions and steps his company makes to be the current or upcoming standard for the whole industry. Ofc as the CEO of Crytek he is going elevate the significance of graphic fidelity - they're mostly selling their engine and less their games.

2013-04-16, 07:13	Link #31
Wild Goose Truth Martyr Author Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork. Age: 38	Well, at least one thing's for sure; the visual novel/eroge market is ridiculously future proof there's not been much increase in hardware specs for eroge. __________________ One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine. *I believe in miracles.* Order of Freelance Mages (Goose's Nanoha OC Project)

2013-04-16, 07:40	Link #33
Flying Dagger 大巧不工 Join Date: Dec 2003	Game engine developer saying something like that: conflict of interest? A lot of the best games with good review does not always contain the best graphics. Dark souls for example. WoW also has terrible graphics (esp since its an MMO where you want as many to play it as possible) but yet is prob still the most played game in the world. IMO these days its not about how pretty you can draw things and make things look amazing. It is about how to make very efficient use of hardware. Ofc, gameplay is usually what people remember a game by.

2013-04-16, 07:50	Link #35
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Graphics make the game for a lot of people. But that's for people who don't have time to invest in a game. I for one never could understand the joys of playing EO. I was used to final fantasy which was pretty much the standard of RPG back in FF6-8 era. But EO was just... like a kick to the nuts. It woke me up from the handholding every other RPG was dragging me through and put me in the shoes of a nameless adventurer, hiring nameless people fighting in an epic dungeon where it seems hopelessly unending to prove myself as the person who conquered the impossible. Impossible because this first few hours are composed of seeing the game over screen unless you take your time to train. O.o Graphics are all still 32-bit anime style portrait. Music is 8-bit. First person turn based combat. First person dungeon crawling and map drawing. The immersion is pretty deep, despite those hallmarks that take you out of it.

2013-04-16, 08:27	Link #37
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	Graphics have an acceptable minimum; veteran RPG gamers can make do with onimusha tactics, but the people who embarked on their gaming journey in the 00's would like to see at least...iunno, God of War graphics? Even so, there is no max graphic limit (unless your PC can't handle it, in which case it becomes a hardware issue), so gaming companies can always strive for something more advanced in this department. Still, imo once your game has reached a decent level of graphics, it's time to shift the focus to gameplay, plot, sound, etc. (particularly sound, since its evolution is also limitless). Imagine FFXIII versus being on the brink of release and SQUEE postponing it because "the graphics need moar trimming!"

2013-04-16, 08:37	Link #38
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Honestly I could live with the PS3 graphics for a another decade. I'm just wondering why people want to keep pushing it more.

2013-04-16, 08:45	Link #40
hyl reading #hikaributts Join Date: Feb 2009	The thing that i want to see upgraded are the (enemy) AI of games, not the graphics.