Relationships In The MSLN Series [SERIOUS DISCUSSION ONLY]

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by BPHaru

Are there any translation? I have listened to the sound stages, but my japanese isn’t very good and I didn't get that part.
Anyways all the sound stages have hints about Fate being in love with Nanoha.

-Haru

I'm guessing you don't want to just see my own translation due to possible perceived bias issues, but there's one post from the Music thread:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...7&postcount=94

Spoiler for Sound Stage M; not the quote in question:

Hayate: Okay, next question:
Hayate: As for Nanoha and Fate who's been friendly 10 years ago, are you still friendly? Are you "raburabu"?
Fate: Ah, putting "raburabu" aside, we're still friendly like before.
Nanoha: Yup! Friendly! Friends!

…Bah, I tried translating the scene I was talking about but it's hard to hear Fate and Hayate's aside while Nanoha is talking in the background.

[krisslanza]

I don't know about you, but if Midchilda may have the same views as Earth so you know, if I were Nanoha or Fate if they were together I wouldn't come and say it...

You know?

And heck, knowing the developers they probably won't reveal anything until near the end... In fear of losing viewers perhaps. I'll openly admit: One reason I wanted to see StrikerS was to see NxF.

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by Meophist

Spoiler for Sound Stage M; not the quote in question:

Hayate: Okay, next question:
Hayate: As for Nanoha and Fate who's been friendly 10 years ago, are you still friendly? Are you "raburabu"?
Fate: Ah, putting "raburabu" aside, we're still friendly like before.
Nanoha: Yup! Friendly! Friends!

…Bah, I tried translating the scene I was talking about but it's hard to hear Fate and Hayate's aside while Nanoha is talking in the background.

I was not talking about that scene, there are another ahead where Fate acts weird when Nanoha and Hayate were talkink, she mumbles something to herself about friendship...I don't remember very well, I dont have the sound stage here, I’ll be re-downloading it.

Originally Posted by krisslanza

And heck, knowing the developers they probably won't reveal anything until near the end... In fear of losing viewers perhaps. I'll openly admit: One reason I wanted to see StrikerS was to see NxF.

I think there are 2 posible reason to watch this average show:
-To see girls trowing Dragon Ball-alike energy rays.
-To see NxF.


-Haru

[krisslanza]

Don't forget the fact when they henshin, you wouldn't feel like a pedophile anymore.
Well except for when Caro does it.

But that's besides the point. It's common place knowledge, I believe, that NxF is the most popular fan pairing of the series.

[Fuyu no Sora]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I don't know about you, but if Midchilda may have the same views as Earth so you know, if I were Nanoha or Fate if they were together I wouldn't come and say it...

You know?

And heck, knowing the developers they probably won't reveal anything until near the end... In fear of losing viewers perhaps. I'll openly admit: One reason I wanted to see StrikerS was to see NxF.

I agree. The producers would probably lose less than half the audience, but it would be nice if they gave us a bit on romance. However we have to acknowledge that this show, sadly, focuses more on friendship.

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Don't forget the fact when they henshin, you wouldn't feel like a pedophile anymore.
Well except for when Caro does it.

But that's besides the point. It's common place knowledge, I believe, that NxF is the most popular fan pairing of the series.

Dunno about the pedophile thing, but I do know that I like Nanoha x Fate. I'm not watching it only for that though. I found the show interesting and so I'm gonna follow until it ends. Even though it would disappoint me a bit if there was no romance here, I'll still watch.

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

Don't forget the fact when they henshin, you wouldn't feel like a pedophile anymore.
Well except for when Caro does it.

Sorry, I forget that. So there is another minority group who looks this series for the fanservice too. I think this is a minority group because if you want to watch an anime for the fanservice, there are a lot of ‘better’ options.

Originally Posted by krisslanza

But that's besides the point. It's common place knowledge, I believe, that NxF is the most popular fan pairing of the series.

Just need to look at the doujins, the rate of NxF per each NxAnother is about 5:1.
If someone knows what the public want, they are the people who draw those.

-Haru

[FlareKnight]

Maybe they just don't want to alienate a portion of the fanbase even if it is a minority. Keeping Nanoha relatively open lets them pull in the maximum amount of people. Though really if they wanted to keep it open why they have kept Yuuno pretty much out of the series is beyond me.

Doujins have it easier, people aren't suddenly going to say "I'm not buying these, there is no Yuuno." It's an easier business in that regard, give the people what they want.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I don't know about you, but if Midchilda may have the same views as Earth so you know, if I were Nanoha or Fate if they were together I wouldn't come and say it...

You know?

And heck, knowing the developers they probably won't reveal anything until near the end... In fear of losing viewers perhaps. I'll openly admit: One reason I wanted to see StrikerS was to see NxF.

I'm reminded of the 'conversion' I had with someone (I can't remember if it's Loner or Woden...) a long time ago when that person questioned the reliablility of the OFFICIAL information of the Character's mage ranking.

It's really call delusional when you don't believe official information.

There's no information, they're not admitting it, but you're PRETTY SURE that the writers are just keeping a tight lip on it.

And that this WOULD ONLY apply for the pairing that you favor, cause even though Yuuno had the same treatment, he isn't allowed to have that possiblity.

EDIT:

With that being said, did Chrono and Amy really have twins? Oh did they lie to everyone and just adopt?

Cause you know, they probably wouldn't want to reveal too much...

[Kha]

*slams both fists on the table*

I see! The mystery is solved!

*slaps a backhand onto a piece of paper*

Notice how most of what we know of the Nanohaverse characters comes from the supporting media, like sound stages, novels and manga. As such we have come to trust them more than the anime, which is in contact with far more people, for information. As such, while the anime has given us inneudos, the supporting media have given us contradictions separated by a long distance of canon-time, and thus polarizing all debate for both sides have their moments of truth.

*folds arms up*

And what's happening is really human psychology. The mind looks for a pattern to make sense of what's going on, even when there's none. I am not saying I am totally neutral, but I can state this firmly...

*points dramatically*

All this is just hype! The truth is not out there! The only winner is Seven Arcs who are riding on all this!

*sits down*

That is all for now.

PS: I wonder what were the Hallaoun twins named? I only recall a mention that is a boy and a girl. Has there been an official statement on this? But if they are really adopted, and they are not related by blood, it would be the advent of the worst possible form of that moe...

*shudder*

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Kha

*slams both fists on the table*

I see! The mystery is solved!

*slaps a backhand onto a piece of paper*

Notice how most of what we know of the Nanohaverse characters comes from the supporting media, like sound stages, novels and manga. As such we have come to trust them more than the anime, which is in contact with far more people, for information. As such, while the anime has given us inneudos, the supporting media have given us contradictions separated by a long distance of canon-time, and thus polarizing all debate for both sides have their moments of truth.

*folds arms up*

And what's happening is really human psychology. The mind looks for a pattern to make sense of what's going on, even when there's none. I am not saying I am totally neutral, but I can state this firmly...

*points dramatically*

All this is just hype! The truth is not out there! The only winner is Seven Arcs who are riding on all this!

*sits down*

That is all for now.

So... Once again you baffle me with your long explainations, but since I have a high interest in the contents, I shall brave the dangers and attempt to comprehend it...

*5 minutes later after reading through 3 times...*


How I so wish to believe it... So your point is that the Anime and the other media are telling different versions of the same tale? That they are,

Messing with our heads?
Screwing with our minds?
Yanking our chains?
Pushing our buttons?
Rattling our cages?

Well, that does give hope, but along with it all the other evil and chaos from the box

PS: I wonder what were the Hallaoun twins named? I only recall a mention that is a boy and a girl. Has there been an official statement on this? But if they are really adopted, and they are not related by blood, it would be the advent of the worst possible form of that moe...

*shudder*

Apparently, their names are japanese (suspicious... suspicious... )

The girl is Ai, and the boy... (Now, I'm being serious here, so don't laugh...)

...Is Makoto... (NO LAUGHING! )

But if anything, they should be more worried of Arf... After all, who knows how she's taking it since Fate started work...

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I don't know about you, but if Midchilda may have the same views as Earth so you know, if I were Nanoha or Fate if they were together I wouldn't come and say it...

You know?

That's a pretty big If. It's a whole other world, quite literally.

Even on the Nanoha-verse Earth, it's not a given that homosexual relationships are seen the same way as in the Real World. I present, once again, Card Captor Sakura, which has all sorts of different pairings which would at least raise a few eyebrows if they existed in the Real World, but in the CCS-verse, it's taken as normal, possibly as a message that Love Is Blind.

(Doesn't matter if it's just CLAMP's habit of having weird relationships; in that universe, regardless of authorial intentions, those relationships are seen in that particular way. Apply to the Nanoha-verse.)

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Maybe they just don't want to alienate a portion of the fanbase even if it is a minority. Keeping Nanoha relatively open lets them pull in the maximum amount of people. Though really if they wanted to keep it open why they have kept Yuuno pretty much out of the series is beyond me.

I'm guessing that, as mentioned, they're going to focus more on the action than the romance (or rather, all the romance). This is not a Bad Thing or a Good Thing, it is just What It Is. So it goes and all that. (A bit like how Shakespeare's Macbeth focused on drama rather than actual deep political intrigue; there is some there, but it's nowhere near the main focus.)

This, of course, may also have the added benefit of "not alienating" shippers. However, as I keep saying, it's not as though having canon confirmation either way will end the shipping wars.

... sometimes I wonder if I'm being ignored or something.

Originally Posted by Kha

Notice how most of what we know of the Nanohaverse characters comes from the supporting media, like sound stages, novels and manga. As such we have come to trust them more than the anime, which is in contact with far more people, for information. As such, while the anime has given us inneudos, the supporting media have given us contradictions separated by a long distance of canon-time, and thus polarizing all debate for both sides have their moments of truth.

It's a side-effect of what I see in a lot of shounen anime. For example, very often, the main character does a Cool Move, and then all action stops for several minutes as the details behind the Cool Move is explained, perhaps with editorial comments on how it is Impossible or High-Level or whatever. It breaks the momentum of the scene horribly, and is generally poorly-done.

MSLN just leaves most of it out of the anime, and the mechanics of how everything is done remains unexplained. But then we have people like myself who keep going "wait, so how does it work?", and so the information is released in extra supplements, a bit like the Star Wars Encyclopaedia or something. With all that, I can see this being expanded for stuff like, well, relationships: the producers would rather not break the action to show a romantic interlude in the middle of a pitched battle, so they leave it out entirely. It's also entirely possible that they truly do not know why fans place such an emphasis on pairings, despite every single fandom ever having at least a portion of its fanbase defined by pairings. But I digress.

So, now we have all the extras and supplementary materials. But, as various other franchise universes have shown (Marvel and DC, anyone?), keeping track of all of them appears to be beyond the skills of the story writers. (Seriously; I think several comics writers have said that there is no way even an author can surpass the nitpicking capabilities of the detail-obsessed fan, even when the author pays attention. If the writers are working at least partly on autopilot, continuity can fall apart after two chapters.)

I know there are several Warcraft fans in here, so I'll just present the examples of Medivh as he is presented in WC1 (a random "evil warlock"), and Medivh in WC3 (the Last Guardian). And then there's the rather illogical retcon of the Eredar and Draenei, from WC3 to the WoW expansion.

And, as you mentioned, there's the probability that we're all reading far too much into it, based on faulty information (more precisely, the lack of all the information).

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by dkellis

I know there are several Warcraft fans in here, so I'll just present the examples of Medivh as he is presented in WC1 (a random "evil warlock"), and Medivh in WC3 (the Last Guardian). And then there's the rather illogical retcon of the Eredar and Draenei, from WC3 to the WoW expansion.

And, as you mentioned, there's the probability that we're all reading far too much into it, based on faulty information (more precisely, the lack of all the information).

Ugh... don't remind me of the 'Draenei Lore War' (trust me, 300 and the Legion combined had nothing on that horrifying battle).

[dkellis]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Ugh... don't remind me of the 'Draenei Lore War' (trust me, 300 and the Legion combined had nothing on that horrifying battle).

I am normally a fairly mellow guy, who espouses the stereotypical hippie view of "can't we all just get along?" I honestly don't care who Nanoha ends up with, be it Fate, Yuuno, or Arf.

But come a battle about the importance of continuity, and I will call for a crusade. We will call ruin upon their houses, raze their cities, plunder their ships, pillage their livestock, salt their lands, and be generally rather unpleasant, until the continuity error is acknowledged and fixed. If the latter is not possible, then I will at least keep harping on it at every opportunity.

In any case, though, I haven't really seen a lot of continuity problems in the Nanoha-verse that cannot be No-Prized away with sufficient plot contortions. It doesn't make me happy that these contortions are needed, but it's marginally better than a direct contradiction.

Then again, I haven't looked very hard.

In any case, I've noticed that romantic discussions in the MSLN materials tend to be short conversations, mostly leaving the matter vague and undecided. We don't even know the circumstances behind Chrono marrying Amy.

And the furor of the shipping wars, as usual, revolves around Nanoha, being that she's technically the main character. Apart from any relationship possibility with Nanoha as part of it, we have the strongly hinted Caro/Elio, the stated but not shown Chrono/Amy, and the mostly offscreen Kyoya/Shinobu. Other than that, well, I don't remember anything. (This doesn't count stuff like Chrono's or Nanoha's parents.)

I'd personally be interested in seeing some example of Yuuno or Fate being interested in someone other than Nanoha.

[Andy00]

What Meophist links to isn't proof of anything, though.

Fate is being the typical Tomoyo from Card Captor Sakura. "The only way I can love my beloved is to make sure she's happy with someone else." All this shows is that at the time of the Sound Stage, they weren't.

One thing this show indicates time and again, though, is that Nanoha just doesn't think like other people. She doesn't think like other magical girls.

I can easily see her coming to the understanding that Fate's interested in her...then, when enough time has passed that it would be healthy to pursue a relationship; ask Fate to be together that way.

See, the Japanese have what they call "Type S" relationships. These are friendships between young girls that superficially resemble romantic ones. The theory behind them is that they are "safer" and give girls confidence to go on to relatonships with boys. (Don't ask me, that's just how they think.)

Nanoha is smart. She _knows_ this. She doesn't a relationship that would get "outdated" with high-school graduation; especially not with her most special person in the world. So...she waits until they're grown-up; and THEN pursues it.

Remember what the StrikerS ED says. "I won't forget you when I'm a women, my love." And...she doesn't. Fate can be all Tomoyo-esque self sacrificing as she wants, but Nanoha screws the rules, she has money.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Andy00

What Meophist links to isn't proof of anything, though.

Fate is being the typical Tomoyo from Card Captor Sakura. "The only way I can love my beloved is to make sure she's happy with someone else." All this shows is that at the time of the Sound Stage, they weren't.

One thing this show indicates time and again, though, is that Nanoha just doesn't think like other people. She doesn't think like other magical girls.

I can easily see her coming to the understanding that Fate's interested in her...then, when enough time has passed that it would be healthy to pursue a relationship; ask Fate to be together that way.

See, the Japanese have what they call "Type S" relationships. These are friendships between young girls that superficially resemble romantic ones. The theory behind them is that they are "safer" and give girls confidence to go on to relatonships with boys. (Don't ask me, that's just how they think.)

Nanoha is smart. She _knows_ this. She doesn't a relationship that would get "outdated" with high-school graduation; especially not with her most special person in the world. So...she waits until they're grown-up; and THEN pursues it.

Remember what the StrikerS ED says. "I won't forget you when I'm a women, my love." And...she doesn't. Fate can be all Tomoyo-esque self sacrificing as she wants, but Nanoha screws the rules, she has money.

*Falls face flat on the table and groan...*

Please point out one solid, undeniable evidence that'll support your claim that Nanoha is indeed 'waiting' for the right moment that you can find from the Anime or any other official sources than your wishfully thinking and pure biasiness?

Also, I'm amused that you only Identify this Possibility with Fate and not Yuuno when they both shared the same situation and treatment with/by Nanoha.

But hey, at least you'll be meeting the others that thinks like that... I believe you can find them growing all sorts of weeds and funguses in the "Image Thread"

[Tenkaichi]

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

Since all the romance that's occurred so far hasn't been in the focus of the show, I agree with the speculation that if we get anything close to a canon pairing, it's either going to be at the very end of StrikerS or in the manga.

Also, not that *main* characters can't hook up with not-so-focused-on-past main characters, but unless the producers stick Yuuno in a more prominent position, it feels less and less likely that NxY pair up. In this series so far, the parings have been rather even in terms of what type of cast they are -

Chrono and Amy - work together, more like supporting characters.
Erio and Caro, Subaru and Tiana - fit in the newbies catagory. They have the most interaction with their respective partner (or at least spring out the most emotions anime-wise for now)
Nanoha and Fate - almost the default pairing due to very close friendship.

Hayate and her knights - wouldn't say it's romantic per se, but for the sake of discussion, they're all typically grouped together.

Now if we were to use this silly train of thought, Yuuno would be paired with Arf in terms of casting, and YES, I know he's not a familiar. But like I said - casting-wise that would make Arf about the equivalent. Only evidence for throwing those two together post A's would be in the StrikerS 01 manga where we first see Arf in a chibi form helping Yuuno out in the library. Otherwise, the two have been grouped together for their support abilities.

[Chaos2Frozen]

@Tenkaichi

Actually, considering the writers' history to announce things like this all of a sudden, I don't think that screentime is any important factor at all.

[Fuyu no Sora]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@Tenkaichi

Actually, considering the writers' history to announce things like this all of a sudden, I don't think that screentime is any important factor at all.

If we really consider that, then maybe he will just pair up Nanoha with a new and unknown character that came outta nowhere.

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@Tenkaichi

Actually, considering the writers' history to announce things like this all of a sudden, I don't think that screentime is any important factor at all.

It's not about screentime, it's all about popularity, in this series and in every other. All we know what characters are loved by all, as well as we know what character is hated.
Furthermore, more popularity implies more screentime, so you can consider those factors as equivalents in an anime like this, not based on a pre-written plot (like a novel or a manga).

Originally Posted by Fuyu no Sora

If we really consider that, then maybe he will just pair up Nanoha with a new and unknown character that came outta nowhere.

Yes, and that would be a suicide xD


-Haru

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Fuyu no Sora

If we really consider that, then maybe he will just pair up Nanoha with a new and unknown character that came outta nowhere.

That's exactly what I've meant...

Hey, why are you only using him as an example?

Originally Posted by BPHaru

It's not about screentime, it's all about popularity, in this series and in every other. All we know what characters are loved by all, as well as we know what character is hated.
Furthermore, more popularity implies more screentime, so you can consider those factors as equivalents in an anime like this, not based on a pre-written plot (like a novel or a manga).

If it's about popularity, you locusts/floods/zergs would have had things done your way a long time ago...

Also, popularity doesn't control the plot... If it does, we're going to have a serious problem later... Mai Otome style