2008-04-19, 11:08 | Link #421 |
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 34
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He isn't the Suzaku from season 1 so he isn't deluding himself anymore. He is much more realistic from the looks of things. And his goal is to use his position to change things from within. Also, he wants to kill Zero.
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2008-04-19, 11:22 | Link #423 |
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 34
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You're being much too hard on him than is needed. Sure he has bad qualities and such, but so do a lot of other characters in this show.
And how do you know he can't? Granted, I don't see the dream as being that realistic myself, but that is beside the point.
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2008-04-19, 11:25 | Link #424 |
Evil's evil twin
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: a deep, dark place
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the only way to truly empathize with suzaku is to come up with convoluted rationalizations. with a sauron or grendel type of villain this is an acceptable approach. why did grendel attack hrothgar's hall? well, because he was a monster and that is just the sort of thing that monster's do, no?
every time i hear suzaku's twisted rationalizations about working w/i the system and his ridiculous notions of justice, i get the same feeling as when i watch a horror film wherein some homicidal killer is on the loose and soon-to-be-corpse #8 goes down into an unlit basement to check on a mysterious sound. you know what i mean, right? you want to yell at the screen, and berate the character for his obvious stupidity/foolishness. but code geass isn't a horror film, and we don't get the satisfaction of seeing suzuka's gutted for his stupidity. i get that some few people like suzaku, or empathize with him. great. wonderful. nevertheless, MANY people don't "get" suzaku in the least. for us he is little more than an anthropomorphized WTF... who pilots a giant robot and can run vertically across walls. what really gets me is that it would be so easy to fix suzaku as a character. after all, how difficult would it be to come up with a plausible reason for an individual to want to fight against perceived terrorism? again, from a writer's pov such rationales don't even have to be reasonable; you merely have to create enough plausibility so as to make empathy possible. regardless, if a significant % of your audience can't empathize with a non-monster character, then you have failed as a writer. to be fair, the code geass story arc is hardly complete, so perhaps suzuka will finally be humanized and rehabilitated as a character, but for the moment, i have no idea why the writers would want to make suzaku such a... ponce. dts |
2008-04-19, 11:26 | Link #425 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
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Thats exactly the point, its unrealistic. Suzaku is trying to make something happen that is impossible. Suzaku's best chance is to assassinate the king and take the throne himself... seriously do you see the king as the type to go... "oh I was wrong, I don't wanna rule the world, I love all gods creations!" Nope, he's a manical madman, and Suzaku is delusional to believe otherwise.
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2008-04-19, 11:50 | Link #426 |
WHERE'S...MY...COW????
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 34
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It is unrealistic, but he seems to believe otherwise so let him do so. He may eventually come to the realization he was wrong in this regard.
And the Emperor isn't a madman. He actually seems quite intelligent and merely enforces the policy of survival of the fittest.
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2008-04-19, 11:56 | Link #428 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
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Madman doesn't mean, crazy psychopaths who runs around wearing womens underwear weilding a cleaver.
The craziest people are usually very intelligent and composed. Think back to Ted Bundy, a mass murder, but no one knew. He was very well groomed, highly intelligent, composed, and all around nice guy. But, he killed women in the most cruel manner possible. |
2008-04-19, 12:02 | Link #432 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Seriously. Who's calling who deluded here? All I've said is for people to get off their high horses and stop judging Suzaku, and here we have people questioning my rational capabilities. That's the definition of hypocrisy to say I can't judge them right back. |
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2008-04-19, 12:03 | Link #433 |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
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Of course its destroy and rebuild. Thats what conqueoring is. You destroy a nation, you assimilate the people and rebuild its structure. Big bad Emperor man rules with an iron fist, he controls through fear and manipulation. You gets you results, but it also leads to subsurveant revolutions and lose of power in eventual time. People can handle being oppressed for only so long.
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2008-04-19, 12:07 | Link #435 | |
Chicken or Beef?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 41
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2008-04-19, 12:10 | Link #436 | |
the red string of fate
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Unless we're talking about a moral judgement vs. "you are my enemy, I'll kill you", then that would only really be Rollo at this point...maybe. |
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2008-04-19, 12:20 | Link #437 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Well, right now I think Suzaku is a big [?]. I mean, if he wished he could have killed Lelouch at the end of R1 but he took him to the Emperor so Zero was put to sleep for a whole year. About Lelouch's recovered memories I don't think they can be trusted, after all the Emperor is not stupid and geass is no joke. I think Suzaku is planning something, I don't know if he's alone or not however.
Either the case Suzaku's personality changed quite a lot. He is now cold and straight almost like a machine executing it's pre programmed code whatever this code is. |
2008-04-19, 12:21 | Link #438 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Heh, I guess that's why I don't emphathise completely with any of the characters in the show, then. Still, point out exactly how many people Suzaku has judged, then? I'd say the only person he's ever 'judged' has been Zero (he's judged the actions of the Black Knights as well, but there's the thing: just because someone does something wrong doesn't mean they're a bad person. It takes an understanding of the circumstances and motivations to reasonably make that extension.). Contrast this with Lelouch's constant speeches and talking downs towards aristocrats etc.
I find it interesting, really, how so many of Suzaku's detractor's claim that his behaviour is either irrational or deluded. Honestly, that's just the sign of a poor imagination. Gromnir said above that the writer's haven't provided nearly enough plausible evidence to make Suzaku a sympathetic character, but that's not true. There's a lot of material in the show, from his upbringing, his initial personality, his reaction to the destruction of his homeland, his father's massecre, the aftermath of his father's massacre and Suzaku's reaction to that, to his friendship with Lelouch. Suzaku's words and actions have an internal consistency to them, and they show a clear path of his beliefs and the way they have developed. All you have to do is look for them and actually care enough to try to figure it out, but it seems like a lot of people are just not willing to do that. edit: HayashiTakara, good job there, trying to make me look bad. I guess that's part of why you think you're so much more clever than Suzaku, eh? What I said there was clearly just me giving you guys a taste of your own medicine. I'll stop judging you once you stop judging him. |
2008-04-19, 12:32 | Link #439 |
the red string of fate
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Toudou in 18, Kallen in 19. His lack of judgment against Clovis in 2 and Jeremiah in 4 and Cornelia in 7 and Schneizel in 18 and 20 may was well count too.
Up until 20, Suzaku's actions are completely deluded and irrational (well, they're rational in their own warped way, but not for any of the reasons he gives), and he's even somewhat out of reality in 20-25. But by the end of 25 and onward, Suzaku is completely grounded in reality once more. |
2008-04-19, 13:21 | Link #440 |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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Suzaku is delusional if he thinks he'll be able to change anything. At the end of the day he is just another pawn to be used and sacrificed by the Emperor. If he wants to change anything he needs to challenge Charles and become emperor and I'm sure Schneizel would just sit back and let him do that >_>
Best way to change a system like Britannia is to bring it down by force, i.e what Zero wants to do. |
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