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ZODDGUTS · 2009-04-12, 05:36

Meh let him kill Envy kinda get annoyed with this whole you shouldn't kill for revenge BS that most manga and other media do. This is why I love the Korean movie Sympathy for Lady Vengeance every victim that lost their child got their turn in torturing the bastard that killed their child and finally killing him. Afterwards they all get coffee and feel relieved for finally getting revenge/vengence for their children. Such an awesome movie.

Samanosuke · 2009-04-12, 05:50

eh , well apparently it's because revenge doesn't bring anything good...or something.

ZODDGUTS · 2009-04-12, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samanosuke

eh , well apparently it's because revenge doesn't bring anything good...or something.

lol I know.

Anyways just let Roy get he's revenge which also would finally get Hughes vengence/justice for his death. I mean it's not like Mustang would regret killing Envy afterwards why would he? Nor does he have to worry about going to jail for killing Envy. Will he become a killing psycho after killing Envy nah he'll feel relived for finally getting revenge/vengence for his friend. Though he still has to continue killing since he's in the army plus and he's currently fighting he's enemies but I guess killing for revenge is a no no...

Another thing is that Envy is far too dangerous to be let to live. So why not let the person who sufferred the most (besides Hughes wife/daughter) here get to kill him if he's willing? One thing more Scar killed innocent people aka Winry's parents in he's quest for revenge and he regret's that but here Roy has a shot in getting revenge without getting to killing any innocent people so why get in he's way if he'll have no regret? Just makes no sense to me.

Samanosuke · 2009-04-12, 06:33

Actually , I gave a lol answer , but it's a bit more complicated than that .
revenge is a double–edged sword .
If it becomes "OK" for you to take revenge, and you call that Justice , than , it will be "OK" for someone else to take his revenge against you.
And for someone like Roy who is a military officer , he can't afford to get lost on ideals like revenge , because he's not so innocent himself. Don't forget that he's killed countless innocent in the ishbal war under the pretext of serving the army. Nobody said he enjoyed it, but the fact stays that he still killed countless of innocent.
So now , what gives him the right to take revenge ?
And Envy is only dangerous if not controlled(given raw material to form a body). Once you've secured him, there's nothing he can really do under that form. I actually don't believe killing him now would serve any kind of purpose.

duckroll · 2009-04-12, 07:28

I think people need to realize that Ed and Al are children and not hardened killers. This is a very important plot point throughout the series. Even though the series is dark and tragic, they are determined to not lose their way on their quest to regain their bodies.

The other factor is that while Envy is clearly a dangerous enemy and not a human, that doesn't give anyone the right to kill a defenseless being. It would be one thing if the battle was on even ground (like with Lust), and killing the enemy is the only option in a do or die scenario. It's completely another case when you have completely incapacitated the enemy and still want to finish it off for revenge.

That simply is not right. It might be okay in a lot of popular action movies and series to do it just because the bad guy killed a lot of the good guy's friends, but that's clearly not the message that Arakawa wants to send in her story. Envy's unique property of not being able to be killed in his regular forms does give him an unfair advantage over just and moral people, yes. But that does not mean that it's okay to shed those values simply to finish him off.

It would be no different from shooting an unarmed prisoner in war after you have captured him. That is what Ed and Hawkeye are trying to save Mustang from. He doesn't have to go down to that level, he's better than that, and they all know it. When he is more rational, he'll realize that as well.

yezhanquan · 2009-04-12, 09:14

But, Envy is not an easy thing to imprison. If he escapes and kills someone again, it would not be pretty.

I forsee either Scar or Ed crushing the bug.

Samanosuke · 2009-04-12, 09:35

that's not going to happen.
Ed has a No kill policy
and Scar could probably care less about Envy anymore.

Vicious108 · 2009-04-12, 09:57

Scar had embryo Envy in the palm of his hand before but didn't anything with him.

Dann of Thursday · 2009-04-12, 19:00

Out of curiosity, what does everyone think is going to be done about Greed?

Vicious108 · 2009-04-12, 20:24

Not sure, he's a real wildcard. (like Kimblee was ;_; )

But I'd say Ran Fan finds a way to beat him or at least kick him out of Lin's body.

bluemist · 2009-04-12, 20:49

Anyone else think about it this way? Maybe it's being set up such that Pride will actually absorb the rest of the Homunculi and return to being one again? Remember he absorbed Gluttony already, so maybe he would take care of Envy before Roy or Ed could. (dunno how Lust would return on my theory though)

It's odd that so many questions are seemingly already answered in this entire series that everything they're doing now is just fighting all the way to the end. FMA is starting to bore me that way. The only remaining mystery in my mind are the "sacrifices" and why Father needs 5 of them (4 already identified I think).

Dann of Thursday · 2009-04-12, 21:50

I'm not sure about Ran Fan being able to do anything though I could possibly see Xing alchemy being used unless Greed chooses to leave, which I find unlikely along with me not being sure if that is possible.

Hmm, Pride absorbing Envy would certainly take care of him and it would be interesting if he absorbed the others though of course he would be unable to get Lust seeing as her stone was completely destroyed.

The fifth sacrifice is probably Mustang unless there is some other person who has seen the Gate that we don't know about and the only person I can think of would be Father himself.

Everything is sort of getting explained I suppose though certain things like Xing alchemy and such I would like to know more about. One thing that I don't think has been entirely answered was what exactly the complete goal of Father was. It was hinted several times, mainly by Envy, that there was something more to it than opening the portal and creating a giant stone. Maybe he wants to become a God or something. There are also a number of subplots that need to be resolved though the majority of them aren't likely to see resolution until Father is defeated.

Sprite_Coke · 2009-04-13, 02:21

I haven't kept up with the manga for half a year.

One thing that just popped into my mind while watching episode 2.

Did they do anything with the markings on Hawkeye's back?

Charred Knight · 2009-04-13, 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprite_Coke

I haven't kept up with the manga for half a year.

One thing that just popped into my mind while watching episode 2.

Did they do anything with the markings on Hawkeye's back?

You mean the ones that teach you Flame Alchemy? Their purpose was revealed pretty much after they where shown. I mean like two chapters later.

Spectacular_Insanity · 2009-04-13, 08:29

Good chapter. Though Mustang is on a rmpage right now, I have faith that ultimately he'll make the right decision and leave Envy to Ed (or Riza).

Speaking of Riza, her test of Envy was quite good. I laughed at Envy's inability to act well.

Vicious108 · 2009-04-13, 09:15

I like manga Envy, but man he sure gets owned a lot compared to his first anime self.

Dann of Thursday · 2009-04-13, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

I like manga Envy, but man he sure gets owned a lot compared to his first anime self.

Well, it is a lot more complicated to kill Homunculi in the first series than it is in the manga. You just have to where them down in the latter, while you need to get your hands on some of the remains as well as get them in that transmutation circle in the first anime.

Sprite_Coke · 2009-04-13, 17:10

Well I've fallen behind on manga for half a year.
Envy's out of the jar now??? o0o

Yokai · 2009-04-14, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samanosuke

that's not going to happen.
Ed has a No kill policy

That always changes in anime/manga. (see Trigun)

Sure, he feels like shit after, but eventually it has to happen or else the series will go nowhere.

Kirarakim · 2009-04-14, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yokai

That always changes in anime/manga. (see Trigun)

Sure, he feels like shit after, but eventually it has to happen or else the series will go nowhere.

Ed is only 15, I don't see why he has to kill anyone. The series is not focused on "will Ed finally kill someone" so I don't understand why the story will not go anywhere if he does not. .

2009-04-12, 05:36	Link #401
ZODDGUTS Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005	Meh let him kill Envy kinda get annoyed with this whole you shouldn't kill for revenge BS that most manga and other media do. This is why I love the Korean movie Sympathy for Lady Vengeance every victim that lost their child got their turn in torturing the bastard that killed their child and finally killing him. Afterwards they all get coffee and feel relieved for finally getting revenge/vengence for their children. Such an awesome movie. Last edited by ZODDGUTS; 2009-04-12 at 05:48.

2009-04-12, 09:14	Link #406
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	But, Envy is not an easy thing to imprison. If he escapes and kills someone again, it would not be pretty. I forsee either Scar or Ed crushing the bug. __________________

2009-04-12, 19:00	Link #409
Dann of Thursday WHERE'S...MY...COW???? Join Date: Dec 2007 Age: 34	Out of curiosity, what does everyone think is going to be done about Greed? __________________ By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. "Nearly all men can stand adversity, if you want to test a man's character give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

2009-04-12, 20:49	Link #411
bluemist i am the mist Join Date: May 2003 Location: Japan	Anyone else think about it this way? Maybe it's being set up such that Pride will actually absorb the rest of the Homunculi and return to being one again? Remember he absorbed Gluttony already, so maybe he would take care of Envy before Roy or Ed could. (dunno how Lust would return on my theory though) It's odd that so many questions are seemingly already answered in this entire series that everything they're doing now is just fighting all the way to the end. FMA is starting to bore me that way. The only remaining mystery in my mind are the "sacrifices" and why Father needs 5 of them (4 already identified I think). __________________ bluemist anime blog

2009-04-12, 21:50	Link #412
Dann of Thursday WHERE'S...MY...COW???? Join Date: Dec 2007 Age: 34	I'm not sure about Ran Fan being able to do anything though I could possibly see Xing alchemy being used unless Greed chooses to leave, which I find unlikely along with me not being sure if that is possible. Hmm, Pride absorbing Envy would certainly take care of him and it would be interesting if he absorbed the others though of course he would be unable to get Lust seeing as her stone was completely destroyed. The fifth sacrifice is probably Mustang unless there is some other person who has seen the Gate that we don't know about and the only person I can think of would be Father himself. Everything is sort of getting explained I suppose though certain things like Xing alchemy and such I would like to know more about. One thing that I don't think has been entirely answered was what exactly the complete goal of Father was. It was hinted several times, mainly by Envy, that there was something more to it than opening the portal and creating a giant stone. Maybe he wants to become a God or something. There are also a number of subplots that need to be resolved though the majority of them aren't likely to see resolution until Father is defeated. __________________ By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. "Nearly all men can stand adversity, if you want to test a man's character give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

2009-04-12, 05:50	Link #402
Samanosuke Genma Killer Join Date: May 2007	eh , well apparently it's because revenge doesn't bring anything good...or something.

2009-04-12, 06:33	Link #404
Samanosuke Genma Killer Join Date: May 2007	Actually , I gave a lol answer , but it's a bit more complicated than that . revenge is a double–edged sword . If it becomes "OK" for you to take revenge, and you call that Justice , than , it will be "OK" for someone else to take his revenge against you. And for someone like Roy who is a military officer , he can't afford to get lost on ideals like revenge , because he's not so innocent himself. Don't forget that he's killed countless innocent in the ishbal war under the pretext of serving the army. Nobody said he enjoyed it, but the fact stays that he still killed countless of innocent. So now , what gives him the right to take revenge ? And Envy is only dangerous if not controlled(given raw material to form a body). Once you've secured him, there's nothing he can really do under that form. I actually don't believe killing him now would serve any kind of purpose.

2009-04-12, 07:28	Link #405
duckroll 綺羅星★！ Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 42	I think people need to realize that Ed and Al are children and not hardened killers. This is a very important plot point throughout the series. Even though the series is dark and tragic, they are determined to not lose their way on their quest to regain their bodies. The other factor is that while Envy is clearly a dangerous enemy and not a human, that doesn't give anyone the right to kill a defenseless being. It would be one thing if the battle was on even ground (like with Lust), and killing the enemy is the only option in a do or die scenario. It's completely another case when you have completely incapacitated the enemy and still want to finish it off for revenge. That simply is not right. It might be okay in a lot of popular action movies and series to do it just because the bad guy killed a lot of the good guy's friends, but that's clearly not the message that Arakawa wants to send in her story. Envy's unique property of not being able to be killed in his regular forms does give him an unfair advantage over just and moral people, yes. But that does not mean that it's okay to shed those values simply to finish him off. It would be no different from shooting an unarmed prisoner in war after you have captured him. That is what Ed and Hawkeye are trying to save Mustang from. He doesn't have to go down to that level, he's better than that, and they all know it. When he is more rational, he'll realize that as well.

2009-04-12, 09:35	Link #407
Samanosuke Genma Killer Join Date: May 2007	that's not going to happen. Ed has a No kill policy and Scar could probably care less about Envy anymore.

2009-04-12, 09:57	Link #408
Vicious108 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	Scar had embryo Envy in the palm of his hand before but didn't anything with him.

2009-04-12, 20:24	Link #410
Vicious108 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	Not sure, he's a real wildcard. (like Kimblee was ;_; ) But I'd say Ran Fan finds a way to beat him or at least kick him out of Lin's body.

2009-04-13, 02:21	Link #413
Sprite_Coke Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Washington	I haven't kept up with the manga for half a year. One thing that just popped into my mind while watching episode 2. Did they do anything with the markings on Hawkeye's back? __________________ Click for my MyAnimeList

2009-04-13, 08:29	Link #415
Spectacular_Insanity Ha ha ha ha ha... Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Right behind you. Age: 35	Good chapter. Though Mustang is on a rmpage right now, I have faith that ultimately he'll make the right decision and leave Envy to Ed (or Riza). Speaking of Riza, her test of Envy was quite good. I laughed at Envy's inability to act well. __________________

2009-04-13, 09:15	Link #416
Vicious108 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	I like manga Envy, but man he sure gets owned a lot compared to his first anime self.

2009-04-13, 17:10	Link #418
Sprite_Coke Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Washington	Well I've fallen behind on manga for half a year. Envy's out of the jar now??? o0o __________________ Click for my MyAnimeList