2013-04-12, 23:09 | Link #41 |
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Well, it depends on the definition of virtual reality; it's not full-immersion virtual reality ala Sword Art Online or anything (which is what most people think of when they hear the term 'virtual reality'), but it's a far deeper level of immersion than what gamers are used to, and it's convincing enough that those who've tested out the system were left in a state of euphoria and said that it felt like they were right there in the game's world.
Last edited by Dr. Casey; 2013-04-12 at 23:19. |
2013-04-13, 02:20 | Link #42 | ||
Augumented Paranoia
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Sex appeal wise Japan also fails despite having to push BD sales. OVA lacks the same amount of edge as an HBO show which almost guarantees sex. Anime? Maybe bare tits and service but rarely you see softcore happening.
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2013-04-13, 08:27 | Link #43 |
Still Alive
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I would rather not have anime going mainstream - not that it will anytime soon. It works fine as a niche market which can satisfy almost all of its customer base's varied tastes - even if some get more "preference" at any given period of time.
As for the question in particular, I'm not sure - are we talking about the US or the West in general? For the US it would have to be something like GitS, I guess. One badass character(also dark and gritty setting) is all it takes, I think (don't take this too seriously)
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Last edited by Eragon; 2013-04-13 at 08:38. |
2013-04-13, 09:05 | Link #45 |
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Animation, and I'm not even talking anime, is too abstract to have a wide appeal. Mainstream audiences want 'real' events and people/characters they can easily relate to.
Shows like the Simpsons, South park etc. have found their niche. Sharp or even non-PC social commentary hidden behind the excuse of "it's only a cartoon" to appear harmless. Same way stand-up-comedy and sci-fi operates. Come to think of it, I can't recall anyone on this board to have written anything positive on shows like American Idol, Jersey Shore, Oprah etc. Are anime fans different from mainstream viewers? |
2013-04-13, 11:14 | Link #46 | |||
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If I'm recalling correctly here, then anime going mainstream would almost certainly mean more shows like that. You wouldn't want that? Quote:
And animation is certainly no more abstract than most video games are, and video games have been mainstream for decades now. Plus, the success of The Lord of the Rings movies really flies in the face of your argument here. I doubt most modern movie-going audiences can relate all that well to people living in a world with medieval-level tech and the sort of magic and monstrous beings that can be found in the world of LotR. And yet, the LotR movies did exceptionally well. People like abstraction and escapism from time-to-time. Quote:
I'm not much into modern American TV dramas.
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2013-04-13, 12:11 | Link #47 |
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to answer the question: More shows like Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Steins Gate, Psycho Pass Shinsekai Yori, Madoka, Shingeki no Kyojin, etc etc. . .
Less shows like Clannad, Sakaraso pet whatever, harem show #485345, Shows with lots of retarded fanservice, shows with panty shots: seriously if there is even ONE panty shot in a show, most people in the "mainstream" audience will instantly think anime is some weird/sick/fetish/pedophilia(given that a majority of the anime females look like they are about 12-15) horror to stay away from. This is why I tell no one "IRL" I like anime, I never mention it, period. IRL I don't mention that I've lived in Japan for a number of year and know Japanese (unless I speak to Japanese people) as Anime wasn't really popular at all when I went, hell I didn't know about it till this Japanese guy gave me some of his old stuff while I was there...telling me I'd like it. Pretty much in the year I left it all of a sudden got really popular. . .along with all the weirdness too. less "I can't believe my little sister is this cute" type shows. . .less INCEST or hints at it! (seriously that is some weird shit even for me and I'm pretty tolerant of weird shit) oh yeah and less of guilty crowns, high school fan service zombie flicks, HIGH SCHOOL/JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL shows, in fact I'll go so far as to say that those school setting shows will never draw in mainstream audiences (most shows like that can easily fall under the pedophile category, all it takes is a shot that focuses on a girls legs, body for one second, mentions sex or ecchi or whatever, has girls with skirts too short for high school. . .at least the high schools that mainstream audiences went to) in other words. . . NEVER. so either you just gotta make friends who are into anime, and keep quiet about it to other people, or just make yourself look weird and go balls to the walls anime fan I know a couple of people like this and it's . . . really sad. . .everyone else thinks they are laden with down syndrome. . .but then they act like those bad cosplayers you see on the net. or you can just go my route and just not mention anime at all, and if its mentioned I act like I don't know what they're talking about, and don't make a big deal about it. . .just shrug it off as "meh, I'll check it out when I get the chance" and leave it at that. Anime will never be accepted by mainstream audience so it's best to not have your enjoyment ruined by that fact. The CLOSEST anime-ish show to becoming mainstream was Avatar the last airbender. but that show was ACTUALLY GOOD! lol I'd rank it up there with the top tier anime shows of the "golden age" of anime |
2013-04-13, 12:20 | Link #48 | |
reading #hikaributts
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As for the rest of your post, i am not even going to start a discussion with you on that. |
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2013-04-13, 12:24 | Link #49 | |
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2013-04-13, 12:24 | Link #50 | |
We're Back
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Nobody else complains more base on their individual illusions than them.
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2013-04-13, 12:59 | Link #51 |
Me at work
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One thing that would help is if Hollywood finally got manga/anime adaptation right.That could lead into more people looking for the original material and spark an interest (I'm looking at you Shane Black , hope you manage to not let the execs butcher Death Note).
On a similar note, if Del Toro's Pacific Rim is a commercial success,maybe mecha will be the next big thing in Hollywood and it'll create new mecha fans who might look into its origins. Ok,I admit,a lot of this is wishful thinking
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2013-04-13, 13:04 | Link #53 | |
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Video games have only entered mainstream recently mostly through simplified consoles like the WE and mobile devices. For the rest it's still heavily associated with geek culture. LotR is a borderline case, literary medieval fantasy is as socially acceptable as fantasy can get. Something similar happened with Star Wars which also escaped it's genre confines. |
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2013-04-13, 18:40 | Link #54 | |
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What I mean is, I'm fine with anime remaining a niche market. It doesn't have to go mainstream to produce shows like those that I mentioned - if that is the only motivation for such a change, which I most probably think is not the case. But, that's just my take on it.
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2013-04-14, 12:28 | Link #55 | |
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2013-04-14, 20:31 | Link #56 | |
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(As for Sakurasou, it's more fanservicy than I tend to like but it's also got a pretty decent storyline and Mashiro is adorable.) Ironically, he just perfectly demonstrated exactly why moe fans like me tend not to be big on the idea of anime going mainstream - if these sorts of attitudes persist within certain segments of the fandom, what can we expect from the mainstream? More accusations of being pedophiles for having tastes that happen to be cute and sappy? I got tired of that stereotype years ago.
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2013-04-14, 20:53 | Link #57 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Meanwhile, the average night on American television either resembles a stream of snuff films and sexual violence, or is a stream of "bread and circus' reality shows of people desperately trying to get a break. That is apparently what "America" wants, pardon me but that seems to be where 'mainstream' would take the art form. I'll pass.
And yeah, that's quite a rant up there a few posts back. Not necessarily a lot of factual basis and quite a few outright misrepresentations but I think I'll just let it lay there and decay.
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2013-04-14, 21:18 | Link #58 | |
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People tend to fall in love with other people because they're attracted to what's different about them. But then, as soon as they get into some sort of committed relationship, they quickly get frustrated by those differences, and keep trying to change the person into their own image (to be more like them). They don't realize that the very same things that annoy them can be directly related to the things they liked about the person in the first place. (And then, when they finally do wear down the other party and change them, they tire of the other person and feel that the spark is gone.) I think a lot of people fall in love with anime because it offers something different from mainstream entertainment, but then start finding these little things, like "if only there were less of <x>, it'd be way better". But I think a lot of what makes anime what it is, is because it's a result, representation and reflection of and on all aspects of Japanese culture and society -- both the "good parts" and the "bad parts". If you try to force it to change -- even with good intentions -- you're messing with a cultural formula without knowing for sure what the real outcome will be. It's not like pulling a "less fanservice" lever is going to result in "more serious, mature action shows" -- or whatever the purported trade-off is. Values changed by outside insistence/force typically result in resentment that manifests itself in all sorts of unexpected ways (in fact, you could argue that Japanese culture itself exemplifies this fact). So anyway... that isn't to say that I necessarily think that all Japanese cultural values are wonderful or something that I'd apply to myself. But I think trying to change it to be more like the things "the average person" finds acceptable in our local cultures isn't necessarily what's good for anime, or truthfully for anyone in the end. Let the animators/authors/producers/writers/etc. do what's interesting to them based on their own experiences and naturally-evolving perspectives, and we'll get what we can out of it. They can do likewise the other way around, and maybe then we'll both grow to appreciate each other more. (N.B. This does not mean that I'm saying foreign cultures are immune from criticism. But it should ideally be an exchange of ideas, not a "let me tell you all the ways you're doing it wrong".)
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2013-04-14, 22:43 | Link #59 |
Moving in circles
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At this point, I don't know any more, because it's clear that a variety of definitions exist within this thread alone. I'm further bemused by the unchallenged assumption that mainstream is bad. Ghibli movies and the recent films by Mamoru Hosoda are probably as "mainstream" as animation will get in Japan, and most of these movies are just as likely to be warmly received in the West, if not already so.
Similarly, Disney animated movies are about as "mainstream" as animation gets in the United States. These films reach a broad range of audiences, without the gore and nudity of the anime titles touted as "mainstream" hits in this thread. So, again, I fail to see why anime can't be "mainstream" in the West without staying true to its artistic sensibilities, which, to me, aren't as different as people make them out to be. In the end, a number of themes have universal appeal, regardless of the differences in cultural presentation. This idea that Westerners are too dumb to appreciate the finer aspects of anime tallies with what I think is wrong in the first place: a lack of respect for your audience. |
2013-04-14, 23:30 | Link #60 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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I suppose one could argue that the media in the US underestimates the audience but the numbers essentially say over and over again - the more banal or superficial the better the stats. Using incredibly tortured scenarios to extract maximum emotionalism from contestants and viewers at the expense of intellectual content. Prime time drama with plots paper thin and painful dialog. Even watching a science documentary often induces stupidity as the cycle of dumbing down data increases. Oh, Ghilbi isn't "mainstream" in the US. It is barely on the radar, a bone Disney throws to the small percentage on the right of the bell curve. I'm going to bite my tongue here because I'm trying to avoid a rant.
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